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Post by nuclearbeaver on Feb 27, 2023 17:43:47 GMT -8
He led the team last year with 13 errors. Next highest was Dukart with 7. Forrester and Baz, comparable on playing time, had 4. Dern has shown power and a willingness to make contact this year which is a definite improvement. I just don't see enough to justify sloppy play. Dern is a more talented fielder than most of the team but he just doesn't connect that body to focused effort play in and play out. Idk if Kane can yet but if he's not making errors and is batting better let him ride it out until proven otherwise. Dern can always come back in and would hopefully be ready to connect the dots. Isn't that standard for the position, though? I mean to lead the team in errors. SS isn't as easy as receiving the throw at 1b. UCLA's ss had 11 errors last year. Sloppy play? Hmmm. I still think we haven't seen enough of Kane against a quality opponent to know if he's ready for the spot. One could argue that, had Dernedde played against CSU, he would have really improved his batting average and fielding percentage. Plus, he and Bazzana have worked together already and are a good combo. Kane isn't in sync yet. Only way to find out is let him play. Error leaders 2022 Dernedde 13 2021 Dukart 7, Armstrong 7 2020 Gretler 4, Armstrong 2 (short year) 2019 Adley 6, Phillips 6 2018 Adley 8, Greiner 8, Gretler 8, Kwan 6 2017 Adley 6, Greiner 8, Gretler 6, Madrigal 5, Donahue 5 2015 and 2016 (stats are combined for some reason..Morrison 17, Donahue 13, Gillette 11, Hamilton 10, Gretler 9 2014 Morrison 9, Keyes 8, Peterson 7 That's probably enough. So yeah SS are typically in the top 3 but SS having double anyone else is not normal at all. 13 would have put him tied for 2nd for the combined 2015 and 2016 seasons. |
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Post by irimi on Feb 27, 2023 22:06:23 GMT -8
Isn't that standard for the position, though? I mean to lead the team in errors. SS isn't as easy as receiving the throw at 1b. UCLA's ss had 11 errors last year. Sloppy play? Hmmm. I still think we haven't seen enough of Kane against a quality opponent to know if he's ready for the spot. One could argue that, had Dernedde played against CSU, he would have really improved his batting average and fielding percentage. Plus, he and Bazzana have worked together already and are a good combo. Kane isn't in sync yet. Only way to find out is let him play. Error leaders 2022 Dernedde 13 2021 Dukart 7, Armstrong 7 2020 Gretler 4, Armstrong 2 (short year) 2019 Adley 6, Phillips 6 2018 Adley 8, Greiner 8, Gretler 8, Kwan 6 2017 Adley 6, Greiner 8, Gretler 6, Madrigal 5, Donahue 5 2015 and 2016 (stats are combined for some reason..Morrison 17, Donahue 13, Gillette 11, Hamilton 10, Gretler 9 2014 Morrison 9, Keyes 8, Peterson 7 That's probably enough. So yeah SS are typically in the top 3 but SS having double anyone else is not normal at all. 13 would have put him tied for 2nd for the combined 2015 and 2016 seasons. For a good stretch of those statistics, we had AA playing short, and he was one of the cleanest ever. So I think looking at other teams (like UCLA) would be more in line with what we should expect. Also, you’re comparing a guy’s entire season last year to another guy’s two opportunities against a weak foe. That’s not going to give you the data you need. On the one hand, you’re assuming Dernedde hasn’t improved, while on the other, you’re projecting a positive season on Kane with little evidence. Again, I don’t care who gets the nod. I figure Mitch knows best. He played Dernedde all last year, so I’ve got to think he trusts him. We’ll see. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 28, 2023 14:58:19 GMT -8
Isn't that standard for the position, though? I mean to lead the team in errors. SS isn't as easy as receiving the throw at 1b. UCLA's ss had 11 errors last year. Sloppy play? Hmmm. I still think we haven't seen enough of Kane against a quality opponent to know if he's ready for the spot. One could argue that, had Dernedde played against CSU, he would have really improved his batting average and fielding percentage. Plus, he and Bazzana have worked together already and are a good combo. Kane isn't in sync yet. Only way to find out is let him play. Error leaders 2022 Dernedde 13 2021 Dukart 7, Armstrong 7 2020 Gretler 4, Armstrong 2 (short year) 2019 Adley 6, Phillips 6 2018 Adley 8, Greiner 8, Gretler 8, Kwan 6 2017 Adley 6, Greiner 8, Gretler 6, Madrigal 5, Donahue 5 2015 and 2016 (stats are combined for some reason..Morrison 17, Donahue 13, Gillette 11, Hamilton 10, Gretler 9 2014 Morrison 9, Keyes 8, Peterson 7 That's probably enough. So yeah SS are typically in the top 3 but SS having double anyone else is not normal at all. 13 would have put him tied for 2nd for the combined 2015 and 2016 seasons. Dernedde's 13 errors: One of those errors was, during the period that Mitchy Slick was experimenting with Dernedde at third. Mitch pulled that plug after three games. So, 12 errors at short. Of those, errors in: Surprise Stadium: 1 (Two-out throwing error with bases empty. No unearned runs.)
Goss in Regular Season: 3 (Three throwing errors, one each against Arizona State, Oregon, and UCLA. No unearned runs.)
Hi Corbett Field (Arizona): 1 (Fielding error on what could have been an inning-ending double-play. One unearned run in a 12-9 win.)
Scottsdale Stadium: 4 (Fielding error against Washington. A fielding and throwing error against UCLA on two different plays both involving Oyama. No unearned runs in those three. The last error was a missed relay from Justin Boyd. Boyd threw it too far to the left, not crazy far but too far, and Dernedde looked like he was in between throwing home and trying to keep the runner at second. The official book credited an unearned run, but it was no sure thing.)
Corvallis Regional: 3 (One-out throwing error against New Mexico State with the bases empty. No unearned runs. The first error against Vandy was on an insane play. Vandy tried a double steal with two outs. Logan threw to second low and behind the runner, who kicked the ball to Dernedde. Dernedde tried to get the runner at home and threw an almost perfect one-hop to Logan, who brought his glove down before he had it, resulting in the ball hopping to the backstop. A great catch and there is no error. Logan slightly misplayed it, though, so they awarded an error to Dernedde. Dernedde had a fielding error on a two-hopper that had a weird hop coming off the infield. Dernedde was trying to rush it to get the runner at second, because it was an easier throw than trying to get the runner at first. The error led to two unearned runs, which helped Vandy pull within a run.)
Something that jumps out at me right away:
Errors in Arizona in May: 5 errors in 6 games (three--or four depending on how you judge the relay--fielding errors and one throwing error).
Outside of Arizona in May: 7 errors in 50 games (one fielding error and six throwing errors, at least one of those was not really an error).
Philip (not Phillips) had six errors in 42 games: one in Surprise, two at Jackie Robinson, one in Goss during the regular season, and two in the Corvallis Regional.
Grenier only started at short in 37 games and only played there in 39 games in 2017. Grenier had six errors in those games, half of those errors were in his seven games in Arizona.
Trever Morrison had 11 errors in 52 games at short in 2016. 6 at Goss. The other five were in San Diego, Portland, Berkeley (2), and Keizer.
Dernedde had those same 11 errors in 52 games at short in 2022 with only four at Goss. Dernedde's total was inflated by the four errors in the five games in Scottsdale. |
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Post by nuclearbeaver on Feb 28, 2023 17:39:44 GMT -8
@wilky - Now do the good SS like Madrigal, AA, Wong, Barney. Curious what that standard looks like.
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Post by hottubbeaver on Feb 28, 2023 17:49:52 GMT -8
Only way to find out is let him play. Error leaders 2022 Dernedde 13 2021 Dukart 7, Armstrong 7 2020 Gretler 4, Armstrong 2 (short year) 2019 Adley 6, Phillips 6 2018 Adley 8, Greiner 8, Gretler 8, Kwan 6 2017 Adley 6, Greiner 8, Gretler 6, Madrigal 5, Donahue 5 2015 and 2016 (stats are combined for some reason..Morrison 17, Donahue 13, Gillette 11, Hamilton 10, Gretler 9 2014 Morrison 9, Keyes 8, Peterson 7 That's probably enough. So yeah SS are typically in the top 3 but SS having double anyone else is not normal at all. 13 would have put him tied for 2nd for the combined 2015 and 2016 seasons. Dernedde's 13 errors: One of those errors was, during the period that Mitchy Slick was experimenting with Dernedde at third. Mitch pulled that plug after three games. So, 12 errors at short. Of those, errors in: Surprise Stadium: 1 (Two-out throwing error with bases empty. No unearned runs.)
Goss in Regular Season: 3 (Three throwing errors, one each against Arizona State, Oregon, and UCLA. No unearned runs.)
Hi Corbett Field (Arizona): 1 (Fielding error on what could have been an inning-ending double-play. One unearned run in a 12-9 win.)
Scottsdale Stadium: 4 (Fielding error against Washington. A fielding and throwing error against UCLA on two different plays both involving Oyama. No unearned runs in those three. The last error was a missed relay from Justin Boyd. Boyd threw it too far to the left, not crazy far but too far, and Dernedde looked like he was in between throwing home and trying to keep the runner at second. The official book credited an unearned run, but it was no sure thing.)
Corvallis Regional: 3 (One-out throwing error against New Mexico State with the bases empty. No unearned runs. The first error against Vandy was on an insane play. Vandy tried a double steal with two outs. Logan threw to second low and behind the runner, who kicked the ball to Dernedde. Dernedde tried to get the runner at home and threw an almost perfect one-hop to Logan, who brought his glove down before he had it, resulting in the ball hopping to the backstop. A great catch and there is no error. Logan slightly misplayed it, though, so they awarded an error to Dernedde. Dernedde had a fielding error on a two-hopper that had a weird hop coming off the infield. Dernedde was trying to rush it to get the runner at second, because it was an easier throw than trying to get the runner at first. The error led to two unearned runs, which helped Vandy pull within a run.)
Something that jumps out at me right away:
Errors in Arizona in May: 5 errors in 6 games (three--or four depending on how you judge the relay--fielding errors and one throwing error).
Outside of Arizona in May: 7 errors in 50 games (one fielding error and six throwing errors, at least one of those was not really an error).
Philip (not Phillips) had six errors in 42 games: one in Surprise, two at Jackie Robinson, one in Goss during the regular season, and two in the Corvallis Regional.
Grenier only started at short in 37 games and only played there in 39 games in 2017. Grenier had six errors in those games, half of those errors were in his seven games in Arizona.
Trever Morrison had 11 errors in 52 games at short in 2016. 6 at Goss. The other five were in San Diego, Portland, Berkeley (2), and Keizer.
Dernedde had those same 11 errors in 52 games at short in 2022 with only four at Goss. Dernedde's total was inflated by the four errors in the five games in Scottsdale.The bump in errors in AZ is not coincidental. Balls play completely different on a natural surface baked by +100 degree heat. Hard to adjust to the speed difference in a day or two, especially last year when so many home games were wet/damp and cold and the AZ trip was super hot. The other factor is, both AZ teams are usually solid ball clubs. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Feb 28, 2023 21:53:08 GMT -8
@wilky - Now do the good SS like Madrigal, AA, Wong, Barney. Curious what that standard looks like. I mean Madrigal only played at shortstop in 32 games in his three years. Madrigal had six errors in 32 games. That would be 10.5 errors over 56 games. Madrigal was not a shortstop. He was a second baseman. Madrigal played second in 124 games in his three years. In almost four times as many chances, Madrigal had the same six errors. Armstrong had 8 errors in 93 games: one in Surprise, one in Phoenix, three at Goss, one at PK, one at Jackie Robinson, and on at Page (Loyola-Marymount). Wong had 14 errors in 108 games at short. 5 in Tempe, 4 in Goss, 2 in San Diego, 1 in Berkeley, 1 in Spokane, and 1 in Knoxville. Barney? Whoa! The standard? Barney had 63 errors in 190 games at short. That works out to 18.6 errors over 56 games. Barney was a Gold Glove second baseman who played short. Armstrong is the only real shortstop on the list. Wong is the closest to the second player on the list, but I was always disappointed that someone else didn't handle short in 2008. Wong turned into a pretty good shortstop, though, by 2009. |
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Post by irimi on Mar 1, 2023 7:48:00 GMT -8
Only way to find out is let him play. Error leaders 2022 Dernedde 13 2021 Dukart 7, Armstrong 7 2020 Gretler 4, Armstrong 2 (short year) 2019 Adley 6, Phillips 6 2018 Adley 8, Greiner 8, Gretler 8, Kwan 6 2017 Adley 6, Greiner 8, Gretler 6, Madrigal 5, Donahue 5 2015 and 2016 (stats are combined for some reason..Morrison 17, Donahue 13, Gillette 11, Hamilton 10, Gretler 9 2014 Morrison 9, Keyes 8, Peterson 7 That's probably enough. So yeah SS are typically in the top 3 but SS having double anyone else is not normal at all. 13 would have put him tied for 2nd for the combined 2015 and 2016 seasons. Dernedde's 13 errors: One of those errors was, during the period that Mitchy Slick was experimenting with Dernedde at third. Mitch pulled that plug after three games. So, 12 errors at short. Of those, errors in: Surprise Stadium: 1 (Two-out throwing error with bases empty. No unearned runs.)
Goss in Regular Season: 3 (Three throwing errors, one each against Arizona State, Oregon, and UCLA. No unearned runs.)
Hi Corbett Field (Arizona): 1 (Fielding error on what could have been an inning-ending double-play. One unearned run in a 12-9 win.)
Scottsdale Stadium: 4 (Fielding error against Washington. A fielding and throwing error against UCLA on two different plays both involving Oyama. No unearned runs in those three. The last error was a missed relay from Justin Boyd. Boyd threw it too far to the left, not crazy far but too far, and Dernedde looked like he was in between throwing home and trying to keep the runner at second. The official book credited an unearned run, but it was no sure thing.)
Corvallis Regional: 3 (One-out throwing error against New Mexico State with the bases empty. No unearned runs. The first error against Vandy was on an insane play. Vandy tried a double steal with two outs. Logan threw to second low and behind the runner, who kicked the ball to Dernedde. Dernedde tried to get the runner at home and threw an almost perfect one-hop to Logan, who brought his glove down before he had it, resulting in the ball hopping to the backstop. A great catch and there is no error. Logan slightly misplayed it, though, so they awarded an error to Dernedde. Dernedde had a fielding error on a two-hopper that had a weird hop coming off the infield. Dernedde was trying to rush it to get the runner at second, because it was an easier throw than trying to get the runner at first. The error led to two unearned runs, which helped Vandy pull within a run.)
Something that jumps out at me right away:
Errors in Arizona in May: 5 errors in 6 games (three--or four depending on how you judge the relay--fielding errors and one throwing error).
Outside of Arizona in May: 7 errors in 50 games (one fielding error and six throwing errors, at least one of those was not really an error).
Philip (not Phillips) had six errors in 42 games: one in Surprise, two at Jackie Robinson, one in Goss during the regular season, and two in the Corvallis Regional.
Grenier only started at short in 37 games and only played there in 39 games in 2017. Grenier had six errors in those games, half of those errors were in his seven games in Arizona.
Trever Morrison had 11 errors in 52 games at short in 2016. 6 at Goss. The other five were in San Diego, Portland, Berkeley (2), and Keizer.
Dernedde had those same 11 errors in 52 games at short in 2022 with only four at Goss. Dernedde's total was inflated by the four errors in the five games in Scottsdale.Thanks for this post. |
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