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Post by skyrider on Feb 18, 2023 13:41:33 GMT -8
grayman,
I have lived in Spokane for the last 10 years (prior to that the Portland area most of my life) and had the opportunity in person and on TV to watch the Gonzaga women's team play.
The contrast in both the offense and defense organization and execution between the Zags and the current Beaver teams is striking and disheartening if you are a Beaver fan. I am convinced the OSU talent level is comparable but that is where the comparison ends.
I believe that every team in the PAC12 women's league is better organized and efficient on offense than the Beavs .
Once again, where is the Coaching? Yes, as you said, the players have responsibility as well. However many players have now come and gone over the past few years of decline in the program. The constant has been SR who mantra now seems to be "almost winning"!
I see player development and team execution as two separate issues. Player development is about each player individually, how they improve their skills, etc. Yes, that fits into how a team plays but each player has to be able and willing to improve. How well the team executes the offense and defense is way more on the head coach and staff. More than a few times this team has looked completely befuddled on offense, even with simple things like moving without the ball or making the right pass. Defensively, the poor 3-point defense has stood out. I think the defense is OK for the most part other than that area. There are breakdowns at times, though. It's interesting to note how well the offense played when four freshmen were in with Yeaney. My guess is most of the problem in this area has been Rueck constantly looking for effective combinations and the lack of consistent play by TVO and a few others. No go-to scorer and no point guard have just been killers. grayman,
all right put on your "fortune tellers" hat. Do you think the Beavs will win another game this year?
My guess is that they will win one more game-the ASU game.
Second question-how many Beav players will go into the transfer portal? My guess is three.
Go Beavs!
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Post by jdogge on Feb 18, 2023 14:40:07 GMT -8
This loss is again on the coaching staff. Why do we put starting lineups on the floor that result in OSU being down 10+ points at end of Q1? Start the best players (and the future) which are our freshmen & sophomores. Bendu certainly had an off night with 6 TOs. Why Martha only played 4 minutes is beyond me. I really like our young players. They are gaining confidence and starting to play very well. Adlee was playing with confidence and just looked like a natural hooper last night. Made 3's and great mid-range shot making. I am seeing much better defense from all the freshmen. Coach playing TvO at the PG position is another massive coaching error. TvO is not a PG, and it shows every time with Turnovers, stagnant offense, and the other 4 players standing around. TvO can be a huge contributor in a different role, but not PG. Coaches need to flip the switch. Start the 4 freshmen with either Bendu or Martha at the point. Subs off the bench are the sophomores & juniors. Get it together coach! Oh, here we go ... |
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 18, 2023 15:01:57 GMT -8
On whether players improve-
Talia- Her shooting % is down. Her FT is again in the top 5 in the conference, her rebounding is up, her assists are up, her T/O's are down, steals are up, blocks are up. But she agrees with you guys and says the team plays better when she isn't in there. So keep hammering on her, you are convincing her you are right no matter how wrong you are.
Noelle- Her 3 pt shooting is down, but otherwise despite four times as much playing time her stats are remarkably similar to last years. With that increase in playing time that's great.
AJ- Her 3pt and FT shooting % have both gone down. All other stat's are doing better this year.
Mit- Her 2 pt shooting % is down slightly. All other stat's are doing better this year. And if you watched the UW game you saw them backing off from trying to score inside any time Mit facing off with them. She doesn't get a lot of blocks because most teams won't even try against her.
Lilly and Adlee's game has improved in every phase except rebounding.
Martha isn't playing enough to know what's up with her really.
Beers- Defense has improved remarkably. Offense is a work in progress as other teams are starting to target her as they do Talia.
Lex, Timea and Bendu- No opportunity for improvement so.....
This team was rebuilt with hope and scotch tape after the 7 transfers over the past two seasons, 6 of whom were starters when they left. And to go on about how no one on the team is showing improvement because Mit is still bringing the ball down is just nuts. If the team sticks together and doesn't double the number of wins next season then you might have a point, but right now it's just goofiness.
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Post by skyrider on Feb 18, 2023 16:25:59 GMT -8
On whether players improve- Talia- Her shooting % is down. Her FT is again in the top 5 in the conference, her rebounding is up, her assists are up, her T/O's are down, steals are up, blocks are up. But she agrees with you guys and says the team plays better when she isn't in there. So keep hammering on her, you are convincing her you are right no matter how wrong you are. Noelle- Her 3 pt shooting is down, but otherwise despite four times as much playing time her stats are remarkably similar to last years. With that increase in playing time that's great. AJ- Her 3pt and FT shooting % have both gone down. All other stat's are doing better this year. Mit- Her 2 pt shooting % is down slightly. All other stat's are doing better this year. And if you watched the UW game you saw them backing off from trying to score inside any time Mit facing off with them. She doesn't get a lot of blocks because most teams won't even try against her. Lilly and Adlee's game has improved in every phase except rebounding. Martha isn't playing enough to know what's up with her really. Beers- Defense has improved remarkably. Offense is a work in progress as other teams are starting to target her as they do Talia. Lex, Timea and Bendu- No opportunity for improvement so..... This team was rebuilt with hope and scotch tape after the 7 transfers over the past two seasons, 6 of whom were starters when they left. And to go on about how no one on the team is showing improvement because Mit is still bringing the ball down is just nuts. If the team sticks together and doesn't double the number of wins next season then you might have a point, but right now it's just goofiness. beaveragain,
As always well thought out and presented. In an earlier post, I spoke about the contrast between the Gonzaga women's program and the OSU women's program at the present time. I believe the differences are glaring and systemic over the past few years.
Just an example, Gonzaga has had, to my knowledge, no players enter the transfer portal to leave their program for at least the past three years.
Your point about waiting to if the team double it's wins next season before judging, I believe is not factoring in how bad the decline has been in the last three years.
Again, I always learn from the group's excellent input.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 18, 2023 16:34:51 GMT -8
Player development is not rocket science. It is a combination of having the natural ability and putting in the hours to develop your game. I have attended a fair amount of coach's clinics and various programs practices over the years and they pretty much all do similar types of player development drills. Assistant coaches get a set amount of time to work with individual players, but much of the development takes place on the players own initiative, sometimes with their individual trainer/skills coach in the off season. Some players even if they were locked out of the gym, they would find someplace to work on their game. You either have the passion or you don't. It is called being a gym rat.
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 18, 2023 16:44:04 GMT -8
There are no problems here just move along. Sad.
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Post by jdogge on Feb 18, 2023 18:43:01 GMT -8
There are no problems here just move along. Sad. To quote Ronald Reagan ... "There you go again." That isn't what they're saying. They're saying that a combination of factors have led to this sub-normal year. These include turnover due to the portal, coaches having only so much time to develop players and, more importantly, lack of commitment by individual players to develop their skills on their own. There is one other factor -- the Pac 12 as a whole is much more competitive than it was five years ago. An additional factor I would suggest is that women have much less opportunity to play professionally and prioritize educational achievement more than their male counterparts. In these cases the opportunity of receiving degrees from Stanford [ranked 4th nationally, 3rd internationally], Cal [ranked 30th nationally, 27th internationally], UCLA [20th nationally, 44th internationally], UW [55th nationally, 80th internationally], and USC [25th nationally, 134th internationally], preferrable to universities [Colorado 97th nationally; UA 105th nationally; UO 105th nationally; UU 105th nationally; ASU 121st nationally; OSU 151st nationally; WSU 212th nationally] with limited academic recognition. |
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Post by grayman on Feb 18, 2023 19:12:39 GMT -8
On whether players improve- Talia- Her shooting % is down. Her FT is again in the top 5 in the conference, her rebounding is up, her assists are up, her T/O's are down, steals are up, blocks are up. But she agrees with you guys and says the team plays better when she isn't in there. So keep hammering on her, you are convincing her you are right no matter how wrong you are. Noelle- Her 3 pt shooting is down, but otherwise despite four times as much playing time her stats are remarkably similar to last years. With that increase in playing time that's great. AJ- Her 3pt and FT shooting % have both gone down. All other stat's are doing better this year. Mit- Her 2 pt shooting % is down slightly. All other stat's are doing better this year. And if you watched the UW game you saw them backing off from trying to score inside any time Mit facing off with them. She doesn't get a lot of blocks because most teams won't even try against her. Lilly and Adlee's game has improved in every phase except rebounding. Martha isn't playing enough to know what's up with her really. Beers- Defense has improved remarkably. Offense is a work in progress as other teams are starting to target her as they do Talia. Lex, Timea and Bendu- No opportunity for improvement so..... This team was rebuilt with hope and scotch tape after the 7 transfers over the past two seasons, 6 of whom were starters when they left. And to go on about how no one on the team is showing improvement because Mit is still bringing the ball down is just nuts. If the team sticks together and doesn't double the number of wins next season then you might have a point, but right now it's just goofiness. Not sure who is saying that the Beavers play better without TVO. They played better without her for a key stretch in the last game. It happens. TVO no doubt has improved as a rebounder and with steals and blocks on defense (I've definitely noticed some of her blocks, really nice plays). There's an asterisk that goes along with her improvement in assist to turnover ratio and that is that she was played as the point guard for much of last season and that included her bringing the ball down the court. She definitely had problems against pressure and piled up a lot of turnovers. This year, Yeaney is the primary ballhandler and that has allowed TVO to play in the half court. She definitely has done a nice job of getting assists. She'll probably fall short of last year's total, but again, that was as the primary PG. Her shooting has been the biggest issue. The Beavers really needed a go-to scorer this season, particularly in Pac-12 play, and TVO seemed to be the likely candidate but it just hasn't panned out. |
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Post by skyrider on Feb 18, 2023 19:14:42 GMT -8
There are no problems here just move along. Sad. To quote Ronald Reagan ... "There you go again." That isn't what they're saying. They're saying that a combination of factors have led to this sub-normal year. These include turnover due to the portal, coaches having only so much time to develop players and, more importantly, lack of commitment by individual players to develop their skills on their own. There is one other factor -- the Pac 12 as a whole is much more competitive than it was five years ago. An additional factor I would suggest is that women have much less opportunity to play professionally and prioritize educational achievement more than their male counterparts. In these cases the opportunity of receiving degrees from Stanford [ranked 4th nationally, 3rd internationally], Cal [ranked 30th nationally, 27th internationally], UCLA [20th nationally, 44th internationally], UW [55th nationally, 80th internationally], and USC [25th nationally, 134th internationally], preferrable to universities [Colorado 97th nationally; UA 105th nationally; UO 105th nationally; UU 105th nationally; ASU 121st nationally; OSU 151st nationally; WSU 212th nationally] with limited academic recognition. 8 jdogge
Your insights about the rankings in terms of academics as it relates to a successful WBB program is I believe a significant factor.
However, those of us that are critical of the OSU WBB program's current direction are not just talking about one "sub-normal year".
We are talking about a steep decline that has occurred over the past, I believe, 4 years.
All the various excuses, rationalizations, etc., etc. do not explain that away.
SR is the Captain of the ship. He rightfully should receive praise and reward when things go well. With that comes the necessity to take the steps necessary to keep the ship from sinking. He has not done that even though he has had several warning years were the ship was leaking all over the place and gave every sign that it was going to go under unless something was done.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 18, 2023 19:51:55 GMT -8
There are no problems here just move along. Sad. To quote Ronald Reagan ... "There you go again." That isn't what they're saying. They're saying that a combination of factors have led to this sub-normal year. These include turnover due to the portal, coaches having only so much time to develop players and, more importantly, lack of commitment by individual players to develop their skills on their own. There is one other factor -- the Pac 12 as a whole is much more competitive than it was five years ago. An additional factor I would suggest is that women have much less opportunity to play professionally and prioritize educational achievement more than their male counterparts. In these cases the opportunity of receiving degrees from Stanford [ranked 4th nationally, 3rd internationally], Cal [ranked 30th nationally, 27th internationally], UCLA [20th nationally, 44th internationally], UW [55th nationally, 80th internationally], and USC [25th nationally, 134th internationally], preferrable to universities [Colorado 97th nationally; UA 105th nationally; UO 105th nationally; UU 105th nationally; ASU 121st nationally; OSU 151st nationally; WSU 212th nationally] with limited academic recognition. Oregon State and Oregon won 6 straight regular season conference titles recently. Pretty good for having limited academic recognition. South Carolina the number one ranked and favorite to win the NCAA title are in the limited recognition category at 115th nationally along with 5th ranked LSU who is ranked 179th. Players have different criteria for choosing a school, some put academics at or near the top of their list, others choose a school more for things like relationships with the coaches, winning, program culture and location. |
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 18, 2023 20:22:34 GMT -8
On whether players improve- Talia- Her shooting % is down. Her FT is again in the top 5 in the conference, her rebounding is up, her assists are up, her T/O's are down, steals are up, blocks are up. But she agrees with you guys and says the team plays better when she isn't in there. So keep hammering on her, you are convincing her you are right no matter how wrong you are. Noelle- Her 3 pt shooting is down, but otherwise despite four times as much playing time her stats are remarkably similar to last years. With that increase in playing time that's great. AJ- Her 3pt and FT shooting % have both gone down. All other stat's are doing better this year. Mit- Her 2 pt shooting % is down slightly. All other stat's are doing better this year. And if you watched the UW game you saw them backing off from trying to score inside any time Mit facing off with them. She doesn't get a lot of blocks because most teams won't even try against her. Lilly and Adlee's game has improved in every phase except rebounding. Martha isn't playing enough to know what's up with her really. Beers- Defense has improved remarkably. Offense is a work in progress as other teams are starting to target her as they do Talia. Lex, Timea and Bendu- No opportunity for improvement so..... This team was rebuilt with hope and scotch tape after the 7 transfers over the past two seasons, 6 of whom were starters when they left. And to go on about how no one on the team is showing improvement because Mit is still bringing the ball down is just nuts. If the team sticks together and doesn't double the number of wins next season then you might have a point, but right now it's just goofiness. Not sure who is saying that the Beavers play better without TVO. They played better without her for a key stretch in the last game. It happens. TVO no doubt has improved as a rebounder and with steals and blocks on defense (I've definitely noticed some of her blocks, really nice plays). There's an asterisk that goes along with her improvement in assist to turnover ratio and that is that she was played as the point guard for much of last season and that included her bringing the ball down the court. She definitely had problems against pressure and piled up a lot of turnovers. This year, Yeaney is the primary ballhandler and that has allowed TVO to play in the half court. She definitely has done a nice job of getting assists. She'll probably fall short of last year's total, but again, that was as the primary PG. Her shooting has been the biggest issue. The Beavers really needed a go-to scorer this season, particularly in Pac-12 play, and TVO seemed to be the likely candidate but it just hasn't panned out. " she was played as the point guard for much of last season and that included her bringing the ball down the court." I think memory is playing tricks on you. Tea and Emily were the PG's last year. Talia only very occasionally played the PG. |
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Post by beaveragain on Feb 18, 2023 20:25:30 GMT -8
On whether players improve- Talia- Her shooting % is down. Her FT is again in the top 5 in the conference, her rebounding is up, her assists are up, her T/O's are down, steals are up, blocks are up. But she agrees with you guys and says the team plays better when she isn't in there. So keep hammering on her, you are convincing her you are right no matter how wrong you are. Noelle- Her 3 pt shooting is down, but otherwise despite four times as much playing time her stats are remarkably similar to last years. With that increase in playing time that's great. AJ- Her 3pt and FT shooting % have both gone down. All other stat's are doing better this year. Mit- Her 2 pt shooting % is down slightly. All other stat's are doing better this year. And if you watched the UW game you saw them backing off from trying to score inside any time Mit facing off with them. She doesn't get a lot of blocks because most teams won't even try against her. Lilly and Adlee's game has improved in every phase except rebounding. Martha isn't playing enough to know what's up with her really. Beers- Defense has improved remarkably. Offense is a work in progress as other teams are starting to target her as they do Talia. Lex, Timea and Bendu- No opportunity for improvement so..... This team was rebuilt with hope and scotch tape after the 7 transfers over the past two seasons, 6 of whom were starters when they left. And to go on about how no one on the team is showing improvement because Mit is still bringing the ball down is just nuts. If the team sticks together and doesn't double the number of wins next season then you might have a point, but right now it's just goofiness. beaveragain,
As always well thought out and presented. In an earlier post, I spoke about the contrast between the Gonzaga women's program and the OSU women's program at the present time. I believe the differences are glaring and systemic over the past few years.
Just an example, Gonzaga has had, to my knowledge, no players enter the transfer portal to leave their program for at least the past three years.
Your point about waiting to if the team double it's wins next season before judging, I believe is not factoring in how bad the decline has been in the last three years.
Again, I always learn from the group's excellent input.
I don't understand what you mean about factoring in the decline. You think it can't be done or you think it's too low a bar for success? |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Feb 18, 2023 21:10:48 GMT -8
One of those years was the start of Covid. The next year we couldn't get a game because either we had Covid or the other team did. That year we didn't play for most of December. That is most of the pre-conference games. Stanford won the ncaa championship that year because they could afford to rent a gym and a motel for their entire team for the whole season. They avoided Covid by limiting potential by avoiding contact with anyone outside the program. Ncaa opens the portal that year, over 1000 women entered.
Last year the team basically underperformed. We lost an associate head coach and an assistant coach. One player was playing where the team needed her to play and another one apparently had chronic injury issues. I don't think either wanted to be here, rarely saw either one smile on the court. I can imagine that it was tough on the players not being able to see their families as much as they wanted.
This year the team is having problems playing 4 quarters. They start slower than molasses, can't spot the other team 10 points in the first couple minutes. And then they will go several minutes in the middle or end of the game without a score. When the droughts start we need to get the ball inside for an easier basket to get us going again. Last night's game really showed what experience is worth, six seniors vs five freshmen plus two players new to the system and only one starter from the year before.
The thing that really stands out to me is the lack of coaching on the bench during the games. Rueck needs to get either his associate or one of his assistant coaches to work the bench. Or he needs to do it himself which if you ask me would be a huge mistake. As it is I don't think the players are getting the feedback they need.
The portal and now the NIL is going to really hurt programs like OSU's. We can't keep up with the schumcks let alone the big programs. Hell even the witch from lsu is crying about it and they have boosters with really deep pockets. After the loss to sc she made the comment that their bench would be ranked second only to their starters. And lsu was ranked 3. Even with all their depth I doubt Stanford has a chance against them.
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Post by grayman on Feb 18, 2023 21:13:01 GMT -8
Not sure who is saying that the Beavers play better without TVO. They played better without her for a key stretch in the last game. It happens. TVO no doubt has improved as a rebounder and with steals and blocks on defense (I've definitely noticed some of her blocks, really nice plays). There's an asterisk that goes along with her improvement in assist to turnover ratio and that is that she was played as the point guard for much of last season and that included her bringing the ball down the court. She definitely had problems against pressure and piled up a lot of turnovers. This year, Yeaney is the primary ballhandler and that has allowed TVO to play in the half court. She definitely has done a nice job of getting assists. She'll probably fall short of last year's total, but again, that was as the primary PG. Her shooting has been the biggest issue. The Beavers really needed a go-to scorer this season, particularly in Pac-12 play, and TVO seemed to be the likely candidate but it just hasn't panned out. " she was played as the point guard for much of last season and that included her bringing the ball down the court." I think memory is playing tricks on you. Tea and Emily were the PG's last year. Talia only very occasionally played the PG. TVO started out there and was eventually replaced by Adams and Codding and it was really Codding who finished out the season as the primary ballhandler. But here's the thing...TVO had to be replaced because of her ballhandling problems. She had 30 turnovers in the first seven games. An 0-8 shooting performance against Villanova derailed her in the eighth and Adams began starting in the ninth game. TVO continued to play that role at times throughout the season even with Adams and Codding and kept piling up turnovers. So yeah, maybe "much of the season" is a stretch, but the point remains. The problem is that while I readily give TVO credit for all the things she can do well (and that's quite a bit), you can't even allow that she might not be the best ballhandler and is best served to get the ball in the half court. |
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Post by grayman on Feb 18, 2023 21:29:46 GMT -8
And by ballhandler, that doesn't mean just the ability to dribble. It means the ability to move the ball through defensive pressure with enough quickness that it's difficult for defenders to trap and force the dribble to be picked up, leading to turnovers. Like how Yeaney is able to get the ball down the court.
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