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Post by beaverstever on Jan 20, 2023 11:10:22 GMT -8
The game last night, I believe Stanford had 19 points in the paint before we scored any. We also had long dry spells. Other than the middle of the game, we had stretches where we couldn't stop Stanford, and we couldn't put the ball in the bucket, partially because of the level of difficulty of the shots we took. The things needing addressed are extensive, but the good WT teams were never great offensive teams (although at least somewhat efficient). When WT done well, it's been with very good defense. GPII could provide that almost by himself, but the Elite 8 run was special for its team defense capabilities. WT's mediocre teams had more offense, the bad teams stunk up both ends of the court. Last night was had qualities of the last point - it felt like a step back on progress that had been made.
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Post by spudbeaver on Jan 20, 2023 11:36:19 GMT -8
You don't even believe it. No, I don't. But I was just throwing out an early defense of Tinkle that is inevitable. Thought it would save time. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 20, 2023 12:52:46 GMT -8
Really hard to win if the ball can't find the hoop. Shooting percentage isn't pretty a majority of the time Three-Point Percentage in Pac-12 play: 1. Oregon State
Free Throw Percentage in Pac-12 play:
1. Oregon State
Two-Point Percentage in pac-12 play:
12. Oregon State
Turnovers:
10. Oregon State
Steals:
10. Oregon State
Blocks:
12. Oregon State
Defensive Three-Point Percentage in Pac-12 play:
10. Oregon State
Two-Point Percentage in Pac-12 play:
10. Oregon State
Rebound Differential
12. Oregon State
Turnovers Forced:
9. Oregon State
Steals Allowed:
9. Oregon State
Blocks Allowed:
10. Oregon State
Oregon State may be the best wide-open shooting team in the Pac-12. The issue is that Oregon State is not generating high-quality shots inside the arc. No real inside defensive presence. Bad on the boards.
Shooting is not really the issue. Few blocks and bad at rebounding. The fact that we only really have one healthy big is one of the big issues. |
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Post by beavaristotle on Jan 20, 2023 13:27:41 GMT -8
anyone have Coach Tinkle's email
Basic offensive basketball principles
It must be simple with the emphasis on execution and fundamentals.
It must keep all defensive players occupied.
It must provide for strong offensive rebounding position.
It must allow for defensive balance.
It must provide for proper floor space (15').
It must make all five players a scoring threat.
It must move smoothly from one option to another.
It must be adjustable to different levels of speed.
It must have counter options to take advantage of defensive overplays and traps.
It must be flexible to meet various types of defensive pressure.
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Post by 93beav on Jan 25, 2023 13:08:04 GMT -8
The worst part is the complete lack of offensive strategy. Just pass it around the arc and dribble a bit. Other team might get bored and lose focus. Gonna be honest- I stopped watching Beaver basketball a couple of years ago when I noticed this strategy by Tinkle. I mean, sure, if you have Gary Payton (sr) you could stand around and watch him slice and dice. But we don't. It would be nice to go into a motion offense and maybe work for some easy baskets. |
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Post by beaverology on Jan 25, 2023 15:21:40 GMT -8
I'm just glad that Barnes is sticking with WT over the next few years. It would be foolish to fire him and be obligated to pay 2 MBB coaches at the same while the sport loses money every year. While some people get emotional, Barnes makes the smart decisions. Good for Barnes.
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Post by Judge Smails on Jan 25, 2023 15:32:14 GMT -8
I'm just glad that Barnes is sticking with WT over the next few years. It would be foolish to fire him and be obligated to pay 2 MBB coaches at the same while the sport loses money every year. While some people get emotional, Barnes makes the smart decisions. Good for Barnes. Basketball does not typically lose money. However, it does not make much when you have dismal crowds because the team is not winning. |
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Post by avidbeaver on Jan 25, 2023 21:08:18 GMT -8
Really hard to win if the ball can't find the hoop. Shooting percentage isn't pretty a majority of the time Three-Point Percentage in Pac-12 play: 1. Oregon State
Free Throw Percentage in Pac-12 play:
1. Oregon State
Two-Point Percentage in pac-12 play:
12. Oregon State
Turnovers:
10. Oregon State
Steals:
10. Oregon State
Blocks:
12. Oregon State
Defensive Three-Point Percentage in Pac-12 play:
10. Oregon State
Two-Point Percentage in Pac-12 play:
10. Oregon State
Rebound Differential
12. Oregon State
Turnovers Forced:
9. Oregon State
Steals Allowed:
9. Oregon State
Blocks Allowed:
10. Oregon State
Oregon State may be the best wide-open shooting team in the Pac-12. The issue is that Oregon State is not generating high-quality shots inside the arc. No real inside defensive presence. Bad on the boards.
Shooting is not really the issue. Few blocks and bad at rebounding. The fact that we only really have one healthy big is one of the big issues.Two point percentage is 12th in Pac 12 play. That isn't very good considering there is only 12 teams in the league, |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 25, 2023 21:31:15 GMT -8
The worst part is the complete lack of offensive strategy. Just pass it around the arc and dribble a bit. Other team might get bored and lose focus. Gonna be honest- I stopped watching Beaver basketball a couple of years ago when I noticed this strategy by Tinkle. I mean, sure, if you have Gary Payton (sr) you could stand around and watch him slice and dice. But we don't. It would be nice to go into a motion offense and maybe work for some easy baskets. During the playoff run there was actually quite a bit of motion. I could swear I remember an interview with Tinkle around mid season that year where he said he was focusing on D and turning the offense over to an assistant or the assistants. Whatever, the later part of thst season the offense looked like it was playing with purpose. This year we're dealing with just about all new kids or people who's past experience here was with a dysfunctional team. I think Andela is the only holdover from the 20/21 season and he's been largely injured since. This last game the offense looked significantly more lively in the second half, and the announcers mentioned about Tinkle wanting a better passing game. I'm hoping it's headed towards more motion, but we still could use more size and experience on the inside. |
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Post by qbeaver on Jan 26, 2023 11:21:10 GMT -8
Even if we were good,basketball isn't going to draw anywhere close to what it did in my youth,the Ralph Miller years. Much of that fan base is gone. The 52 game sell out osu had during the 80-82 stretch won't be seen again. I went to the ASU game a couple weeks ago and think the freshman class Is very solid. Osu needs a big man who is athletic,and Kerry Eggers stated a similar sentiment on the JoeBeaver show yesterday. We have no idea who will stay out of the frosh class and who will not. It's all speculation. Take the money you would invest in a new coach,and invest it in football...a sport who truly makes money. Until you invest in a basketball coach who truly can be a difference maker,they will be the seventh consecutive coach who won't consistently win at osu. If Wayne Is replaced,and we go on the cheap again,fans shouldn't expect consistent success going forward. Just my opinion bring a 50+ year beaver fan.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 26, 2023 11:43:50 GMT -8
Even if we were good,basketball isn't going to draw anywhere close to what it did in my youth,the Ralph Miller years. Much of that fan base is gone. The 52 game sell out osu had during the 80-82 stretch won't be seen again. I went to the ASU game a couple weeks ago and think the freshman class Is very solid. Osu needs a big man who is athletic,and Kerry Eggers stated a similar sentiment on the JoeBeaver show yesterday. We have no idea who will stay out of the frosh class and who will not. It's all speculation. Take the money you would invest in a new coach,and invest it in football...a sport who truly makes money. Until you invest in a basketball coach who truly can be a difference maker,they will be the seventh consecutive coach who won't consistently win at osu. If Wayne Is replaced,and we go on the cheap again,fans shouldn't expect consistent success going forward. Just my opinion bring a 50+ year beaver fan. I'd think if we were "good", for 3-4 years or so in a row, crowds might return to Gill. I don't think one, even two, will do it, but an extended stretch might have a pretty good affect on crowd size. You're right, a simple coaching change won't do that. Just look at how crowded it got at the women's games a couple years back after a good stretch of seasons. Men's is a better draw in general and people will still support a "winner". Those sellouts in the early 80s were preceded by a stretch of pretty good play, I think in theory it could happen again, I'd certainly like the current core of young players to stick around and see if they're the base of a turnaround, but things are different than they were 40-50 years ago when it comes to patience and loyalty, not just in sports. |
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Post by qbeaver on Jan 26, 2023 12:21:00 GMT -8
Even if we were good,basketball isn't going to draw anywhere close to what it did in my youth,the Ralph Miller years. Much of that fan base is gone. The 52 game sell out osu had during the 80-82 stretch won't be seen again. I went to the ASU game a couple weeks ago and think the freshman class Is very solid. Osu needs a big man who is athletic,and Kerry Eggers stated a similar sentiment on the JoeBeaver show yesterday. We have no idea who will stay out of the frosh class and who will not. It's all speculation. Take the money you would invest in a new coach,and invest it in football...a sport who truly makes money. Until you invest in a basketball coach who truly can be a difference maker,they will be the seventh consecutive coach who won't consistently win at osu. If Wayne Is replaced,and we go on the cheap again,fans shouldn't expect consistent success going forward. Just my opinion bring a 50+ year beaver fan. I'd think if we were "good", for 3-4 years or so in a row, crowds might return to Gill. I don't think one, even two, will do it, but an extended stretch might have a pretty good affect on crowd size. You're right, a simple coaching change won't do that. Just look at how crowded it got at the women's games a couple years back after a good stretch of seasons. Men's is a better draw in general and people will still support a "winner". Those sellouts in the early 80s were preceded by a stretch of pretty good play, I think in theory it could happen again, I'd certainly like the current core of young players to stick around and see if they're the base of a turnaround, but things are different than they were 40-50 years ago when it comes to patience and loyalty, not just in sports. I just think the landscape has changed so much. Playing on a Thursday night during the Winter at 8:00,which is what osu used to do won't draw very big crowds imo,especially from the Portland area. Look at the complaints about game times for football past 7 on a Saturday night. Bad weather and having all games on t.v. will keep a lot of fans away even if we are fun to watch. I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer...just trying to be realistic. I have no idea who is going to stick around and who isn't of the freshman class. I know this,at the ASU game the players seemed to truly root for each other and weren't bickering with each other or the coaches,unlike last year. ASU was much more athletic than osu and experienced too. I think with the right kids who buy in,Wayne is a good coach. He stresses defense which is something you can control...you're effort on D. I'm hoping the new assistants can add much to this program and the new ideas will add to the program in a positive way. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 26, 2023 14:01:31 GMT -8
Even if we were good,basketball isn't going to draw anywhere close to what it did in my youth,the Ralph Miller years. Much of that fan base is gone. The 52 game sell out osu had during the 80-82 stretch won't be seen again. I went to the ASU game a couple weeks ago and think the freshman class Is very solid. Osu needs a big man who is athletic,and Kerry Eggers stated a similar sentiment on the JoeBeaver show yesterday. We have no idea who will stay out of the frosh class and who will not. It's all speculation. Take the money you would invest in a new coach,and invest it in football...a sport who truly makes money. Until you invest in a basketball coach who truly can be a difference maker,they will be the seventh consecutive coach who won't consistently win at osu. If Wayne Is replaced,and we go on the cheap again,fans shouldn't expect consistent success going forward. Just my opinion bring a 50+ year beaver fan. According to the University of Arizona, Oregon State had 74 consecutive sellouts around that time, which was still a top-ten streak as of 2015. The University of Arizona likes to use Oregon State as a cautionary tale. Oregon State's six highest season attendance figures are between 1979 and 1985. 1978-79 is eighth. A.C. Green graduated in 1985, leading to the dreadful (comparatively) 1985-86 season. Attendance waned over the next two seasons before Ralph Miller's final season, which has the ninth highest attendance all-time. And Gary Payton's senior season is seventh. Oregon State beat Arizona 92-64 in 1983 at the McKale Center, the Wildcats' biggest loss at the McKale Center ever up until that point. Lute Olson would be hired by Arizona the next year. (It is interesting that both Ralph Miller and Lute Olson were both Iowa's head coach, separated by one basketball coach between.) The Wildcats were the worst team in the Pac-10 in 1982-1983, going 4-24 overall. By 1992-93, Oregon State was the worst team in the Pac-10, the Beavers' first appearance in the cellar since 1951-52. 1995-96, Eddie Payne's first year, was the lowest-attended season up until that point, about 40% of the attendance in 1982-83, the season with the highest attendance. |
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Post by beaverology on Jan 26, 2023 14:24:06 GMT -8
So Ralph's final season and GP's final were the swan song for the MBB program, and a few years later, we hit bottom, never to recover. That didn't take long. What a sad and unfortunate story. Probably a lot of reasons, but I'd say back in the 90's, OSU didn't really care about MBB program. They were living off the shadow of Ralph, hoping, maybe Eddie or Ritchie could bring it back to respectability. Nope, that never happened. I don't like the looks of the future of OSU MBB program in 2023 going forward.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 26, 2023 14:40:11 GMT -8
So Ralph's final season and GP's final were the swan song for the MBB program, and a few years later, we hit bottom, never to recover. That didn't take long. What a sad and unfortunate story. Probably a lot of reasons, but I'd say back in the 90's, OSU didn't really care about MBB program. They were living off the shadow of Ralph, hoping, maybe Eddie or Ritchie could bring it back to respectability. Nope, that never happened. I don't like the looks of the future of OSU MBB program in 2023 going forward. Dutch Baughman hired Pat Casey to lead the baseball team and Mike Riley to lead the football team. Two-for-two. But Baughman hired Eddie Payne to lead the basketball team. Two-for-three. Scott Barnes hired Jonathan Smith to lead the football team and Mitch Canham to lead the baseball team. Two-for-two. The team looks much improved after last year. Inconsistent but much improved. Hopefully, that continues on this year. With the right team, Tinkle has shown that he can cobble together a six- or seven-game winning streak at pretty much any time and against pretty much any opponent. I never count a team led by someone like that out. |
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