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Post by hoopheritic on Mar 18, 2022 6:44:54 GMT -8
I know I'll get "crushed" as there are a ton here that think very, very highly of TVO, but... This is like 6 or more games in a row she seems slow, doesn't move her feet on D, doesn't hustle back on D. She's out of shape, doesn't care, I've got no idea. But she's definitely not contributing on both ends. Partly because SR is not going to let her see the floor with this effort. Severely outplayed by a former walk on who looks to play as hard as she can every possession! Nice. My biggest concern is her body language when she's off the floor that you only see when you're in the gym. I'd be concerned she can be stable through a 4.5 year career. |
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Post by beavfan14 on Mar 18, 2022 6:53:26 GMT -8
Ha Ha so like your opinion of Talia!! What a joke. You’re probably sorry they won to prove your point. Go Beavs Scanning thru your other 170 or so posts. This sort of makes sense for you. But, none what so ever! How does a critique, questioning what's going on with a player have ANYTHING to do with losing a game? Let alone me wanting them to lose? And, scan back and let me know if you find any posts where I've wanted the Beavers to lose. Again... best reply truly was blah blah blah Simple. I have no problem with critiquing players and coaches for bad games, And yes TVO has been struggling lately. But no player makes it to this level, or makes the all Pac-12 team without caring. You hinted at her being slow, out of shape and a bad bad defender. I love Mannen and her attitude and how hard she plays, but really? She “severely” outplayed TVO? Saying “I don’t know” doesn’t absolve you of writing it. She has carried this team most of the year, and is looking a little worn down. This has been a frustrating year for many reasons, some warranted and some are just excuses. But even hinting at a player not caring is ridiculous to me, so I’m sorry if I get worked up about it. But when I write my opinion that saying she doesn’t care is asinine, your response is blah blah blah. How Very mature. Reading through your posts you often start with “I don’t mean to” or “I don’t want to demean this player” or “without sounding” or “I’m going to get crushed but” and then sound exactly like that. You can Critique players, question they’re effort or abilities, but to question whether TVO cares was ridiculous to me, but that’s just my opinion. You yourself even wrote about demeaning a key component to the baseball teams work ethic was bs. EXACTLY what I said about TVO. So it’s ok to question her work ethic or if she cares but not Troy’s? Or is it just because you said it? Like you so eloquently said blah blah blah. |
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Post by lotrader on Mar 18, 2022 6:59:31 GMT -8
At the game last night. Jelena starts and has a terrific game. First game I have seen Jelena catch the ball & NOT put the ball on the floor. Great progress. Jelena also changed a lot of LB shots last night without fouling. TvO sat on the bench because of her very poor decision making. Noelle may be short against a taller offensive guard, but she moves her feet and stays in front of her player. Gives our BIGs enough time to provide help. We needed to deploy the Ralph Miller back door cut last night as LB was overplaying the passing lanes. I thought Tea Adams had a solid game last night, and also played solid defense. Couldn't believe our coaches didn't call a timeout in Q1 and move our perimeter defenders out a couple feet? All season we let the other team have clean looks from 3-point land. I watch other NCAA WBB Teams who just don't let that happen. Well we got a W. Survive and move on. GO BEAVS!
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Post by Werebeaver on Mar 18, 2022 7:15:02 GMT -8
Beavs scoring rate was pretty uniform through the game. LB's scoring peaked early and leveled off.  |
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Post by beaverstever on Mar 18, 2022 7:30:39 GMT -8
On TvO, players that lose confidence and are frustrated can come across that they aren’t trying hard. Others react by trying too hard and gets bunch of fouls and sit as well. The latter tends to get fans more sympathetic.
She had defenders in her head, and her game was way off. She did hit a 3 after a particularly bad stretch of TO, and that was good to see. But yea, teams are game-planning her weaknesses and she’s not reacting well. She has lots to work on to reverse this; we saw Aleah go through this as well and eventually flourished.
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Post by wbosh15 on Mar 18, 2022 8:14:47 GMT -8
Let me first say that I love TVO, she see things on the court most don't see, and she has had some incredible assists this year that I don't remember very many Beaver players making. However, I agree that conditioning is an issue. TVO is a physical athlete that really uses a lot of energy on the offensive end. I think this work on the offensive end, sometimes leaves here out of possition on the defensive end, especially when she's off the ball. Right now I'm not sure she can really play more that 20-25 mins a game, which sucks because I want to see her out there for 35 minutes a game. I think she's very competitive, and will grow from this year, but I think increased conditioning as she does will do wonders for her.
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Post by ricke71 on Mar 18, 2022 8:53:03 GMT -8
Let me first say that I love TVO, she see things on the court most don't see, and she has had some incredible assists this year that I don't remember very many Beaver players making. However, I agree that conditioning is an issue. TVO is a physical athlete that really uses a lot of energy on the offensive end. I think this work on the offensive end, sometimes leaves here out of possition on the defensive end, especially when she's off the ball. Right now I'm not sure she can really play more that 20-25 mins a game, which sucks because I want to see her out there for 35 minutes a game. I think she's very competitive, and will grow from this year, but I think increased conditioning as she does will do wonders for her. I remember the first reactions on this board to a few late Summer 2021 photos of the teams workouts, which included the observation that TVO appeared a bit more 'sleek', as compared to Winter 2021. And I thought so as well. Has that somehow, between August 2021 and March 2022, faded? Talia this season has averaged the 2nd most Minutes per Game (27.5) on the team, behind only Taya Corosdale. Of all of the stats from last nights games, the one that jumped out to me was: Minutes Played 2Q and 3Q by TVO: 2 minutes each of those Quarters. How many All-PAC 12 players (without foul trouble being a factor) would have numbers like that? It illustrates the depths of the difficulty that TVO is experiencing, as well as Rueck's 'solution' to that difficulty. |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 18, 2022 9:04:17 GMT -8
Scanning thru your other 170 or so posts. This sort of makes sense for you. But, none what so ever! How does a critique, questioning what's going on with a player have ANYTHING to do with losing a game? Let alone me wanting them to lose? And, scan back and let me know if you find any posts where I've wanted the Beavers to lose. Again... best reply truly was blah blah blah Simple. I have no problem with critiquing players and coaches for bad games, And yes TVO has been struggling lately. But no player makes it to this level, or makes the all Pac-12 team without caring. You hinted at her being slow, out of shape and a bad bad defender. I love Mannen and her attitude and how hard she plays, but really? She “severely” outplayed TVO? Saying “I don’t know” doesn’t absolve you of writing it. She has carried this team most of the year, and is looking a little worn down. This has been a frustrating year for many reasons, some warranted and some are just excuses. But even hinting at a player not caring is ridiculous to me, so I’m sorry if I get worked up about it. But when I write my opinion that saying she doesn’t care is asinine, your response is blah blah blah. How Very mature. Reading through your posts you often start with “I don’t mean to” or “I don’t want to demean this player” or “without sounding” or “I’m going to get crushed but” and then sound exactly like that. You can Critique players, question they’re effort or abilities, but to question whether TVO cares was ridiculous to me, but that’s just my opinion. You yourself even wrote about demeaning a key component to the baseball teams work ethic was bs. EXACTLY what I said about TVO. So it’s ok to question her work ethic or if she cares but not Troy’s? Or is it just because you said it? Like you so eloquently said blah blah blah. I really don't need to explain but since you've brought up Troy and your panties seemed to be twisted... "She's out of shape, doesn't care, I've got no idea." Is slightly different than outright saying Troy stopped working hard. It was an observation over many games and 1.5 seasons. She had an off season and yet to me has digressed on one end of the court. And, it appears to have gotten worse as this season progressed. Secondly, "doesn't care" was alluding to her improving on what keeps her on the bench. Conditioning is an off season issue. Taking instruction, which I'm sure she's gotten, and showing the will to improve doesn't seem to be there on defense or in transition. She then seems surprised she's pulled, and as mention in this and other threads, her body language isn't good. So, as a D1 athlete she obviously cares about hoops. However, so far she doesn't seem to show the maturity to give serious attention to becoming an all around player that can be trusted for more minutes. Blah blah blah was so much easier, fun! |
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Post by Werebeaver on Mar 18, 2022 11:53:57 GMT -8
Simple. I have no problem with critiquing players and coaches for bad games, And yes TVO has been struggling lately. But no player makes it to this level, or makes the all Pac-12 team without caring. You hinted at her being slow, out of shape and a bad bad defender. I love Mannen and her attitude and how hard she plays, but really? She “severely” outplayed TVO? Saying “I don’t know” doesn’t absolve you of writing it. She has carried this team most of the year, and is looking a little worn down. This has been a frustrating year for many reasons, some warranted and some are just excuses. But even hinting at a player not caring is ridiculous to me, so I’m sorry if I get worked up about it. But when I write my opinion that saying she doesn’t care is asinine, your response is blah blah blah. How Very mature. Reading through your posts you often start with “I don’t mean to” or “I don’t want to demean this player” or “without sounding” or “I’m going to get crushed but” and then sound exactly like that. You can Critique players, question they’re effort or abilities, but to question whether TVO cares was ridiculous to me, but that’s just my opinion. You yourself even wrote about demeaning a key component to the baseball teams work ethic was bs. EXACTLY what I said about TVO. So it’s ok to question her work ethic or if she cares but not Troy’s? Or is it just because you said it? Like you so eloquently said blah blah blah. I really don't need to explain but since you've brought up Troy and your panties seemed to be twisted... "She's out of shape, doesn't care, I've got no idea." Is slightly different than outright saying Troy stopped working hard. It was an observation over many games and 1.5 seasons. She had an off season and yet to me has digressed on one end of the court. And, it appears to have gotten worse as this season progressed. Secondly, "doesn't care" was alluding to her improving on what keeps her on the bench. Conditioning is an off season issue. Taking instruction, which I'm sure she's gotten, and showing the will to improve doesn't seem to be there on defense or in transition. She then seems surprised she's pulled, and as mention in this and other threads, her body language isn't good. So, as a D1 athlete she obviously cares about hoops. However, so far she doesn't seem to show the maturity to give serious attention to becoming an all around player that can be trusted for more minutes. Blah blah blah was so much easier, fun! Who the hell is “Troy”? And whoever he is, what does he have to do with the LBSU game? |
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Post by rgeorge on Mar 18, 2022 12:04:44 GMT -8
I really don't need to explain but since you've brought up Troy and your panties seemed to be twisted... "She's out of shape, doesn't care, I've got no idea." Is slightly different than outright saying Troy stopped working hard. It was an observation over many games and 1.5 seasons. She had an off season and yet to me has digressed on one end of the court. And, it appears to have gotten worse as this season progressed. Secondly, "doesn't care" was alluding to her improving on what keeps her on the bench. Conditioning is an off season issue. Taking instruction, which I'm sure she's gotten, and showing the will to improve doesn't seem to be there on defense or in transition. She then seems surprised she's pulled, and as mention in this and other threads, her body language isn't good. So, as a D1 athlete she obviously cares about hoops. However, so far she doesn't seem to show the maturity to give serious attention to becoming an all around player that can be trusted for more minutes. Blah blah blah was so much easier, fun! Who the hell is “Troy”? And whoever he is, what does he have to do with the LBSU game? It was a discussion on the baseball board. |
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Post by rmancarl on Mar 18, 2022 12:55:28 GMT -8
Let me first say that I love TVO, she see things on the court most don't see, and she has had some incredible assists this year that I don't remember very many Beaver players making. However, I agree that conditioning is an issue. TVO is a physical athlete that really uses a lot of energy on the offensive end. I think this work on the offensive end, sometimes leaves here out of possition on the defensive end, especially when she's off the ball. Right now I'm not sure she can really play more that 20-25 mins a game, which sucks because I want to see her out there for 35 minutes a game. I think she's very competitive, and will grow from this year, but I think increased conditioning as she does will do wonders for her. I remember the first reactions on this board to a few late Summer 2021 photos of the teams workouts, which included the observation that TVO appeared a bit more 'sleek', as compared to Winter 2021. And I thought so as well. Has that somehow, between August 2021 and March 2022, faded? Talia this season has averaged the 2nd most Minutes per Game (27.5) on the team, behind only Taya Corosdale. Of all of the stats from last nights games, the one that jumped out to me was: Minutes Played 2Q and 3Q by TVO: 2 minutes each of those Quarters. How many All-PAC 12 players (without foul trouble being a factor) would have numbers like that? It illustrates the depths of the difficulty that TVO is experiencing, as well as Rueck's 'solution' to that difficulty. I'm going to consider this TVO's freshman year, although some of you don't. She played 1/3 of a year last year, without any practice leading up to live games, so imho, at the very least, most of this year should be considered her freshman campaign. No doubt she's had her ups and downs, as we should all expect, but I get it, we usually expect perfection. What I've been watching all year is her stats compared to Jamie's freshman stats. They are remarkably similar. Minutes are close, Talia has more ppg and assist. Jamie has more rebounds and slightly better shooting percentages. Turnovers are very close. Jamie has more, but TVO will probably end up slighty higher, but she probably handled the ball more as well. I'm not trying to compare the way they play, or the position they play on the court, but Jamie was one of the best players Oregon State has ever had. SR said a few weeks ago that TVO may end up as the best player he has ever coached. I'm just hoping that he is right and TVO will progress as Jamie did, and if so, we are in for an exciting few years. TVO, playing with Tamia and Raegan and the others the Beavs bring in should be a fun team to watch. Go Beavs! |
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Post by grayman on Mar 18, 2022 13:55:04 GMT -8
I don't believe TVO has a conditioning problem...seems she is in better shape that she was last year. She looked slow of foot last night because LBS is a small, fast team that thrives on pressure. TVO is not a good matchup against those type of players and once it was obvious she was going to struggle, Scott sent her to the bench for those long stretches.
The next game will be very telling for TVO...will she be able to play though this rough patch or spiral downward?
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Post by wbosh15 on Mar 18, 2022 14:36:43 GMT -8
I don't believe TVO has a conditioning problem...seems she is in better shape that she was last year. She looked slow of foot last night because LBS is a small, fast team that thrives on pressure. TVO is not a good matchup against those type of players and once it was obvious she was going to struggle, Scott sent her to the bench for those long stretches. The next game will be very telling for TVO...will she be able to play though this rough patch or spiral downward? To me it wasn't just last night. She seems to get gassed quicker than I expect. In Vegas and know some of it was the pressure coming from Wilson. I know there has been some criticism of her, but if Tara V won't let you be in the game without their best guard defender in, you're doing something right. |
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Post by grayman on Mar 18, 2022 14:45:40 GMT -8
Maybe...she definitely got gassed at the end of last season, but I just wrote that off to her making that jump from high school. But it could be something that she will struggle with at this level.
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Post by beavfan14 on Mar 18, 2022 14:52:27 GMT -8
Simple. I have no problem with critiquing players and coaches for bad games, And yes TVO has been struggling lately. But no player makes it to this level, or makes the all Pac-12 team without caring. You hinted at her being slow, out of shape and a bad bad defender. I love Mannen and her attitude and how hard she plays, but really? She “severely” outplayed TVO? Saying “I don’t know” doesn’t absolve you of writing it. She has carried this team most of the year, and is looking a little worn down. This has been a frustrating year for many reasons, some warranted and some are just excuses. But even hinting at a player not caring is ridiculous to me, so I’m sorry if I get worked up about it. But when I write my opinion that saying she doesn’t care is asinine, your response is blah blah blah. How Very mature. Reading through your posts you often start with “I don’t mean to” or “I don’t want to demean this player” or “without sounding” or “I’m going to get crushed but” and then sound exactly like that. You can Critique players, question they’re effort or abilities, but to question whether TVO cares was ridiculous to me, but that’s just my opinion. You yourself even wrote about demeaning a key component to the baseball teams work ethic was bs. EXACTLY what I said about TVO. So it’s ok to question her work ethic or if she cares but not Troy’s? Or is it just because you said it? Like you so eloquently said blah blah blah. I really don't need to explain but since you've brought up Troy and your panties seemed to be twisted... "She's out of shape, doesn't care, I've got no idea." Is slightly different than outright saying Troy stopped working hard. It was an observation over many games and 1.5 seasons. She had an off season and yet to me has digressed on one end of the court. And, it appears to have gotten worse as this season progressed. Secondly, "doesn't care" was alluding to her improving on what keeps her on the bench. Conditioning is an off season issue. Taking instruction, which I'm sure she's gotten, and showing the will to improve doesn't seem to be there on defense or in transition. She then seems surprised she's pulled, and as mention in this and other threads, her body language isn't good. So, as a D1 athlete she obviously cares about hoops. However, so far she doesn't seem to show the maturity to give serious attention to becoming an all around player that can be trusted for more minutes. Blah blah blah was so much easier, fun! My “panties are twisted”, yet another well thought out and mature response. You say that TVO doesn’t seem to take instruction that she’s given, didn’t work on her conditioning, doesn’t care to work hard on defense, or have the will to improve, ouch a little hard? And How is that any different then your conversation about Troy? Really, how is that not exactly the same? Lacks the “maturity to become the player trusted with more minutes”. She played the second most minutes on the team and is ALWAYS in the game at crunch time including last night. She hit a couple of big baskets and ran down a LBS fast break and got a blocked shot when we needed to pull away. And apparently the voters for the Pac-12 seem to believe there was improvement seeing as how they put her on the all Pac-12 team as a freshman. I guess they must really be desperate for players to vote for. I agree she has been struggling lately but give me a break, Led the team in scoring and assists and second in minutes. And This from a player who once her season was canceled in high school gave up the rest of her senior year with friends and family to come here and try and get better. Tried to fit in halfway through the season and then become a freshman starter in the Pac-12. And you obviously don’t know me at all, because if you did you would know my panties are always pressed dressed and looking good. |
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