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Post by beavheart on Feb 27, 2022 11:35:39 GMT -8
For sure. Hard to find a shred of sympathy for anyone in Russia right now. That said, hearing about 2 Russian transport planes being shot down with 150 paratroopers in each doesn't make me feel any better. That's tragic no matter who you are.
If there was any question before hand it has become completely obvious that this was a HUGE mistake by Putin and Russia. In a twist of irony, I predict one way or another that this will be the end of Putin, and it will be Zalensky who will survive this and will emerge the "victor". If there can be one.
The idea that a puppet govt would hold up in Ukraine, even if Russia does take the territory, is as delusional as the idea that anyone could possibly just redraw the borders of other countries at will in this day and age. The strategic goal in all of this is impossible to understand because there isn't one. Reports are now coming out that the captured Russian forces were told this is a training exercise. Imagine your surprise if you think that, and your platoon starts taking live fire. How long are you going to stand and fight when you weren't even expecting resistance, and when the objective is dubious at best?
This is more than just the irrational, meandering, paranoid lashing out of one psycho or the misguided fervor of a good part of the Russian population. I'm convinced the Russian military brass was sold on a modern world "closing in on them" in more ways than one, including a diminishing return on their military "might". What good is a bunch of tanks in a world where tiny drones can fly around dropping bombs on a force built for the wars of yesterday? It was now or never for the Russian military to make a move before their hardware becomes obsolete, along with their notions of the world order.
Hard not to laugh at Putin's warning to not intercede or face the wrath of the Russian military. Buddy, you can't even successfully blitzkrieg a neighboring country that you hold a giant military advantage over. Might want to check yourself their bub.
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Post by lebaneaver on Feb 27, 2022 11:45:10 GMT -8
The scary part for me in all this is; if Hitler had nuclear capabilities in 1944, ’45, the world would be unrecognizable today. If the maniac Putin has his back against the wall, he WILL NOT choose suicide alone. He’ll take tens of millions out with him. I hope and pray this ends without epic tragedy on a large scale. I just don’t know.
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Post by zeroposter on Feb 27, 2022 13:20:13 GMT -8
Well I do see some impressive protests in Russia and a heck of a lot of protestor arrests, plus a fair number of the Russian elites saying screw the invasion. I wouldn’t say it has broad support.
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 27, 2022 13:35:07 GMT -8
Well I do see some impressive protests in Russia and a heck of a lot of protestor arrests, plus a fair number of the Russian elites saying screw the invasion. I wouldn’t say it has broad support. I don’t think the protests will have any impact on Vlad. He couldn’t care less about ordinary Russians. But if his oligarch buddies start complaining about their overseas assets being seized and being unable to enjoy their lifestyles in the manner they’ve grown accustomed to - that’s different. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 27, 2022 13:40:30 GMT -8
More worrisome and seemingly overlooked by many are the implied threats on both "sides". It began with using the tools of sanctions (then of course complicated by "everyone knew sanctions would not work", so here's some more!). Now far more troubling is first Putin and now NATO/France's Foreign Minister tossing out nuclear capabilities of each side. We're not worried about Russian sanctions against the West. The entire Russian economy is equivalent in size to Texas'. I'm not surprised that Russia is making nuclear threats. That is to be expected. What else have they got to threaten us with? NATO should put Trudeau in charge of that. |
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Post by OSUprof on Feb 27, 2022 14:00:59 GMT -8
To be honest I find it sad to see so little concern in the US and Europe for the 58 other ongoing major and minor wars that are currently in progress at this time. I guess too many don't identify with Sudan, Eritrea, Yemen, Somalia, Mali, etc. I have colleagues, students, and others that I know that have lost in these wars. Many more have suffered in these conflicts but they are never in the headlines. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 27, 2022 14:18:55 GMT -8
To be honest I find it sad to see so little concern in the US and Europe for the 58 other ongoing major and minor wars that are currently in progress at this time. I guess too many don't identify with Sudan, Eritrea, Yemen, Somalia, Mali, etc. I have colleagues, students, and others that I know that have lost in these wars. Many more have suffered in these conflicts but they are never in the headlines. You find it sad that Europeans are more interested in a European conflict than in conflicts outside of Europe? |
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 27, 2022 14:25:57 GMT -8
We're not worried about Russian sanctions against the West. The entire Russian economy is equivalent in size to Texas'. I'm not surprised that Russia is making nuclear threats. That is to be expected. What else have they got to threaten us with? NATO should put Trudeau in charge of that. I’m worried that Trudeau will be emboldened to occupy Point Roberts, WA. |
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Post by OSUprof on Feb 27, 2022 14:32:59 GMT -8
To be honest I find it sad to see so little concern in the US and Europe for the 58 other ongoing major and minor wars that are currently in progress at this time. I guess too many don't identify with Sudan, Eritrea, Yemen, Somalia, Mali, etc. I have colleagues, students, and others that I know that have lost in these wars. Many more have suffered in these conflicts but they are never in the headlines. You find it sad that Europeans are more interested in a European conflict than in conflicts outside of Europe? There is NO interest in the conflicts outside of the US and Europe. It's not a matter of more or less. Some might say it's because they do not identify because of racial differences but ignorance might explain it too. They're not even aware they are taking place, except for the refugees. Russia, China, US and other countries have been supplying weapons and funding these wars but as long as folks that look like us are not affected I guess it doesn't matter. |
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Post by TheGlove on Feb 27, 2022 14:41:44 GMT -8
We're not worried about Russian sanctions against the West. The entire Russian economy is equivalent in size to Texas'. I'm not surprised that Russia is making nuclear threats. That is to be expected. What else have they got to threaten us with? NATO should put Trudeau in charge of that. Put Trudeau in charge of what? |
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 27, 2022 14:42:50 GMT -8
NATO should put Trudeau in charge of that. Put Trudeau in charge of what? My stupidity of quoting the wrong post. He should be able to help me out! |
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Post by Werebeaver on Feb 27, 2022 14:43:12 GMT -8
You find it sad that Europeans are more interested in a European conflict than in conflicts outside of Europe? There is NO interest in the conflicts outside of the US and Europe. It's not a matter of more or less. Some might say it's because they do not identify because of racial differences but ignorance might explain it too. They're not even aware they are taking place, except for the refugees. Russia, China, US and other countries have been supplying weapons and funding these wars but as long as folks that look like us are not affected I guess it doesn't matter. Yes, it is sad that our concept of self-interest is not all-encompassing. Life is a vale of tears. (BTW, I look nothing like a Ukrainian). |
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 27, 2022 14:44:44 GMT -8
Well I do see some impressive protests in Russia and a heck of a lot of protestor arrests, plus a fair number of the Russian elites saying screw the invasion. I wouldn’t say it has broad support. I don’t think the protests will have any impact on Vlad. He couldn’t care less about ordinary Russians. But if his oligarch buddies start complaining about their overseas assets being seized and being unable to enjoy their lifestyles in the manner they’ve grown accustomed to - that’s different. On second thought, NATO should put Trudeau in charge of that! (Seizing and freezing assets). |
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Post by irimi on Feb 27, 2022 14:45:47 GMT -8
For sure. Hard to find a shred of sympathy for anyone in Russia right now. That said, hearing about 2 Russian transport planes being shot down with 150 paratroopers in each doesn't make me feel any better. That's tragic no matter who you are. If there was any question before hand it has become completely obvious that this was a HUGE mistake by Putin and Russia. In a twist of irony, I predict one way or another that this will be the end of Putin, and it will be Zalensky who will survive this and will emerge the "victor". If there can be one. The idea that a puppet govt would hold up in Ukraine, even if Russia does take the territory, is as delusional as the idea that anyone could possibly just redraw the borders of other countries at will in this day and age. The strategic goal in all of this is impossible to understand because there isn't one. Reports are now coming out that the captured Russian forces were told this is a training exercise. Imagine your surprise if you think that, and your platoon starts taking live fire. How long are you going to stand and fight when you weren't even expecting resistance, and when the objective is dubious at best? This is more than just the irrational, meandering, paranoid lashing out of one psycho or the misguided fervor of a good part of the Russian population. I'm convinced the Russian military brass was sold on a modern world "closing in on them" in more ways than one, including a diminishing return on their military "might". What good is a bunch of tanks in a world where tiny drones can fly around dropping bombs on a force built for the wars of yesterday? It was now or never for the Russian military to make a move before their hardware becomes obsolete, along with their notions of the world order. Hard not to laugh at Putin's warning to not intercede or face the wrath of the Russian military. Buddy, you can't even successfully blitzkrieg a neighboring country that you hold a giant military advantage over. Might want to check yourself their bub. That’s a cold statement. Russia isn’t exactly a democracy, and lots of Russian people do not support Putin. Many of them do not want this war at all. Many of them have family or friends in Ukraine. If you live in Oregon, we have a large number of Russians and Ukrainians who live here. Talk to some. Find out what they think. You might be surprised. |
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Post by irimi on Feb 27, 2022 14:52:56 GMT -8
To be honest I find it sad to see so little concern in the US and Europe for the 58 other ongoing major and minor wars that are currently in progress at this time. I guess too many don't identify with Sudan, Eritrea, Yemen, Somalia, Mali, etc. I have colleagues, students, and others that I know that have lost in these wars. Many more have suffered in these conflicts but they are never in the headlines. Same. So many of my students come from those countries, or the Ukraine, Syrai, Afghanistan, and other war-torn regions. This year, I’ve been lucky to meet a wonderful gal from Myanmar (formerly Burma) where a bloody coup took place a year ago and the battle continues. She was targeted for taking part in one of the early demonstrations, but she got out just a couple of days before they came knocking at her mom’s house. So few people here know or care…or, hell, can even find Myanmar on a map. For many Americans, the world is what is delivered to them on the nightly news, in ever-increasingly shorter segments, packaged and approved by Disney corporation. |
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