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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 12, 2022 17:20:40 GMT -8
I looked up the recruiting ranking of the players who are currently on the roster who were espnW top 100 recruits.
Imo only 2 have played up to their ranking so far - TVO and Jones. Corosdale, Brown and Kampschroeder have been solid and are still hopefully developing. Then obviously the injuries and transfers have hurt. No program is going to hit on all their recruits, but imo we probably need to hit on a higher rate than listed below in order to compete for a conference title. The list below does indicate we have signed some pretty highly ranked recruits, we just haven't gotten enough production out of them.
Taya Corosdale ESPN 5 star ranked 27 8 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.4 bpg 43.4 fgp 37.5 3pfg
Andrea Aquino – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 has not played
Kennedy Brown – ESPN 5 star ranked 20 8 ppg 7.2 rpg 1.3 bpg 43 fgp 28 3pfg
Taylor Jones – ESPN 5 star ranked 43 injured 12.4 ppg 6.3 rpg 64 fgp
Sasha Goforth – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 transferred
Tayla Van Oelhoffen ESPN 4 star ranked 25 14.3 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.6 apg 40 fg 34 3pfg
Greta Kampschroeder ESPN 4 star ranked 32 6.3 ppg 2.9 rpg 35 fg 40 3pfg
AJ Marotte ESPN 4 star ranked 63 4.8 ppg 1.6 rpg 39 fg 32 3pfg
There was someone on this site - I can't remember who - or PO who did a statistical analysis and determined that Rurek and his staff develops players better then Graves and his. I wonder if they still think that....
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 12, 2022 17:28:22 GMT -8
There needs to be a top point guard brought in. A top point guard is as important as a top quarterback.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 12, 2022 17:40:30 GMT -8
There needs to be a top point guard brought in. A top point guard is as important as a top quarterback. It is strange that we can't seem to sign ONE, when Oregon currently has 3 on the roster all starting and another 5 star PG in the 22 class signed and a 4 star PG committed in the 23 class. Is it that PGs/perimeter players want to get up and down the court and not play in a methodical half court system? It is the only reason I can come up with... |
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Post by lebaneaver on Feb 12, 2022 18:13:52 GMT -8
There needs to be a top point guard brought in. A top point guard is as important as a top quarterback. It is strange that we can't seem to sign ONE, when Oregon currently has 3 on the roster all starting and another 5 star PG in the 22 class signed and a 4 star PG committed in the 23 class. Is it that PGs/perimeter players want to get up and down the court and not play in a methodical half court system? It is the only reason I can come up with... Agreed. Most true PGs love the uptempo offenses. Allows for some creativity. Get “creative” in SR’s O, and ride the pine. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 12, 2022 18:26:19 GMT -8
If you took a survey of players and asked them if they would like to play in a system of pressure D and getting out and running in transition or play in a system where you walk it up the court, it would be hard to find many who would pick the latter, even most bigs would prefer to get out and run and fill the lanes. It is just more fun playing that style.
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Post by speakthetruth on Feb 12, 2022 18:47:07 GMT -8
I doubt destiny leaves if Scott loosened the reins.
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Post by beaverwbb fan on Feb 12, 2022 18:47:54 GMT -8
I looked up the recruiting ranking of the players who are currently on the roster who were espnW top 100 recruits. Imo only 2 have played up to their ranking so far - TVO and Jones. Corosdale, Brown and Kampschroeder have been solid and are still hopefully developing. Then obviously the injuries and transfers have hurt. No program is going to hit on all their recruits, but imo we probably need to hit on a higher rate than listed below in order to compete for a conference title. The list below does indicate we have signed some pretty highly ranked recruits, we just haven't gotten enough production out of them. Taya Corosdale ESPN 5 star ranked 27 8 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.4 bpg 43.4 fgp 37.5 3pfg Andrea Aquino – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 has not played Kennedy Brown – ESPN 5 star ranked 20 8 ppg 7.2 rpg 1.3 bpg 43 fgp 28 3pfg Taylor Jones – ESPN 5 star ranked 43 injured 12.4 ppg 6.3 rpg 64 fgp Sasha Goforth – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 transferred Tayla Van Oelhoffen ESPN 4 star ranked 25 14.3 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.6 apg 40 fg 34 3pfg Greta Kampschroeder ESPN 4 star ranked 32 6.3 ppg 2.9 rpg 35 fg 40 3pfg AJ Marotte ESPN 4 star ranked 63 4.8 ppg 1.6 rpg 39 fg 32 3pfg There was someone on this site - I can't remember who - or PO who did a statistical analysis and determined that Rurek and his staff develops players better then Graves and his. I wonder if they still think that.... All coaches, regardless of how good they are, are going to have players who are better or worse than their ranking. It's also easy to confuse an eye for talent vs. developing talent. Talia is better than Parrish and Scherr, both of whom were ranked higher than her coming out of high school and were also a grade above her. Sasha was also better than both of them last year. Kampschroeder and Marotte have had better years than Oregon's Taylor Bigby who was ranked No. 29. Erin Boley was the national HS POY and she was pretty average as a senior on an Oregon team that needed someone to step up last year. Even though we need a ball handler, a player like Sasha who could consistently get into the paint, bring some quickness, and put points up on the board could have been the difference between OSU being a top-25 team and an average Pac-12 team. If you look at some of the guards Rueck is recruiting in '24, it looks like Rueck is starting to look at some quick, true PGs which is what we have been lacking -- just needs to be able to get them on board unlike in 2020. |
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Post by rmancarl on Feb 12, 2022 20:20:03 GMT -8
It's pretty difficult to look at that list and determine who is developing players, considering they are all freshman or sophomores (except for Taya). Isn't development a process of time? The players mentioned above are still underclassmen. If the comments on Taylor were meant to mean she hasn't developed as expected, we should remember she did lead the Pac12 in rebounding as a sophomore and played this year hurt.
beaverwbb, very good post in response on this subject. Oh, and the other note about Sasha, that girl could play D. She really frustrated Endyia in their matchup last season. She would have made a big difference this season.
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Post by jimbob on Feb 12, 2022 20:27:18 GMT -8
There needs to be a top point guard brought in. A top point guard is as important as a top quarterback. It is strange that we can't seem to sign ONE, when Oregon currently has 3 on the roster all starting and another 5 star PG in the 22 class signed and a 4 star PG committed in the 23 class. Is it that PGs/perimeter players want to get up and down the court and not play in a methodical half court system? It is the only reason I can come up with... Agreed....I think it should be a recruiting priority every year to try and bring in at least 1 true pg and then hopefully out of that you will always have at least 2 good true pg's on your roster every year----a starter and a capable back-up-----that is assuming that you have a 20-30% chance of getting your recruiting pg targets to actually sign with you in any given year. And if you happen to score 2 really good pg's on your roster at the same time just play them both at the same time a good portion of the game to keep them happy as UO does with Rogers and Paopao. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 12, 2022 22:08:02 GMT -8
I looked up the recruiting ranking of the players who are currently on the roster who were espnW top 100 recruits. Imo only 2 have played up to their ranking so far - TVO and Jones. Corosdale, Brown and Kampschroeder have been solid and are still hopefully developing. Then obviously the injuries and transfers have hurt. No program is going to hit on all their recruits, but imo we probably need to hit on a higher rate than listed below in order to compete for a conference title. The list below does indicate we have signed some pretty highly ranked recruits, we just haven't gotten enough production out of them. Taya Corosdale ESPN 5 star ranked 27 8 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.4 bpg 43.4 fgp 37.5 3pfg Andrea Aquino – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 has not played Kennedy Brown – ESPN 5 star ranked 20 8 ppg 7.2 rpg 1.3 bpg 43 fgp 28 3pfg Taylor Jones – ESPN 5 star ranked 43 injured 12.4 ppg 6.3 rpg 64 fgp Sasha Goforth – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 transferred Tayla Van Oelhoffen ESPN 4 star ranked 25 14.3 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.6 apg 40 fg 34 3pfg Greta Kampschroeder ESPN 4 star ranked 32 6.3 ppg 2.9 rpg 35 fg 40 3pfg AJ Marotte ESPN 4 star ranked 63 4.8 ppg 1.6 rpg 39 fg 32 3pfg There was someone on this site - I can't remember who - or PO who did a statistical analysis and determined that Rurek and his staff develops players better then Graves and his. I wonder if they still think that.... All coaches, regardless of how good they are, are going to have players who are better or worse than their ranking. It's also easy to confuse an eye for talent vs. developing talent. Talia is better than Parrish and Scherr, both of whom were ranked higher than her coming out of high school and were also a grade above her. Sasha was also better than both of them last year. Kampschroeder and Marotte have had better years than Oregon's Taylor Bigby who was ranked No. 29. Erin Boley was the national HS POY and she was pretty average as a senior on an Oregon team that needed someone to step up last year. Even though we need a ball handler, a player like Sasha who could consistently get into the paint, bring some quickness, and put points up on the board could have been the difference between OSU being a top-25 team and an average Pac-12 team. If you look at some of the guards Rueck is recruiting in '24, it looks like Rueck is starting to look at some quick, true PGs which is what we have been lacking -- just needs to be able to get them on board unlike in 2020. All good points. As you say recruiting rankings are far from perfect and no program hits on all of their recruits. Although in defense of Bigby she was in street clothes on Friday and has missed part of the season with injuries. Also, she is playing on a better roster, there is a reasonable chance that Kampschroeder and Marotte are not making the level of contributions at Oregon as they have made at OSU this season. I don't have an easy explanation, but unfortunately this will be the 5th straight season that Oregon has had a better conference record then OSU. I am not sure if it is because of superior recruiting, coaching or player development... or maybe all of the above. Or maybe it is just a run of bad luck and OSU will turn tables. Maybe starting Sunday?  |
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Post by sparty on Feb 13, 2022 6:30:34 GMT -8
I looked up the recruiting ranking of the players who are currently on the roster who were espnW top 100 recruits. Imo only 2 have played up to their ranking so far - TVO and Jones. Corosdale, Brown and Kampschroeder have been solid and are still hopefully developing. Then obviously the injuries and transfers have hurt. No program is going to hit on all their recruits, but imo we probably need to hit on a higher rate than listed below in order to compete for a conference title. The list below does indicate we have signed some pretty highly ranked recruits, we just haven't gotten enough production out of them. Taya Corosdale ESPN 5 star ranked 27 8 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.4 bpg 43.4 fgp 37.5 3pfg Andrea Aquino – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 has not played Kennedy Brown – ESPN 5 star ranked 20 8 ppg 7.2 rpg 1.3 bpg 43 fgp 28 3pfg Taylor Jones – ESPN 5 star ranked 43 injured 12.4 ppg 6.3 rpg 64 fgp Sasha Goforth – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 transferred Tayla Van Oelhoffen ESPN 4 star ranked 25 14.3 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.6 apg 40 fg 34 3pfg Greta Kampschroeder ESPN 4 star ranked 32 6.3 ppg 2.9 rpg 35 fg 40 3pfg AJ Marotte ESPN 4 star ranked 63 4.8 ppg 1.6 rpg 39 fg 32 3pfg There was someone on this site - I can't remember who - or PO who did a statistical analysis and determined that Rurek and his staff develops players better then Graves and his. I wonder if they still think that.... What does it really mean by developing players? Is TV at Stanford really developing Cameron Brink as an example. Maybe it is recruiting the right pieces that can play together. I all ways though personality, toughness and grit were more important at times than adding up stars. Give me a three that scores 8 points a game and can dive for balls and play defense as an example. I also think there is more room for star players to develop on the defensive side. Most were just used scoring machines in high school. |
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Post by sparty on Feb 13, 2022 6:52:11 GMT -8
All coaches, regardless of how good they are, are going to have players who are better or worse than their ranking. It's also easy to confuse an eye for talent vs. developing talent. Talia is better than Parrish and Scherr, both of whom were ranked higher than her coming out of high school and were also a grade above her. Sasha was also better than both of them last year. Kampschroeder and Marotte have had better years than Oregon's Taylor Bigby who was ranked No. 29. Erin Boley was the national HS POY and she was pretty average as a senior on an Oregon team that needed someone to step up last year. Even though we need a ball handler, a player like Sasha who could consistently get into the paint, bring some quickness, and put points up on the board could have been the difference between OSU being a top-25 team and an average Pac-12 team. If you look at some of the guards Rueck is recruiting in '24, it looks like Rueck is starting to look at some quick, true PGs which is what we have been lacking -- just needs to be able to get them on board unlike in 2020. All good points. As you say recruiting rankings are far from perfect and no program hits on all of their recruits. Although in defense of Bigby she was in street clothes on Friday and has missed part of the season with injuries. Also, she is playing on a better roster, there is a reasonable chance that Kampschroeder and Marotte are not making the level of contributions at Oregon as they have made at OSU this season. I don't have an easy explanation, but unfortunately this will be the 5th straight season that Oregon has had a better conference record then OSU. I am not sure if it is because of superior recruiting, coaching or player development... or maybe all of the above. Or maybe it is just a run of bad luck and OSU will turn tables. Maybe starting Sunday? Remember at the start of the season when Endyia Rodgers transferred to oregon and everyone was saying she would have no place and there were too many guards?
Not everyone would be happy. Even Scherr has bought into doing anything to help their team win in her words. I believe there are some kids who take team over the I.
Gravey will usually take these back up players and show cases them on what they mean to the team and their role in post pressers. He calls Scherr a swiss army knife and she embraces that role and she gets praised for it.
I wished Scott would do more of that praising the backups more and on their roles. More openly praising of each strengths and what they bring to the team.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 13, 2022 8:06:00 GMT -8
All good points. As you say recruiting rankings are far from perfect and no program hits on all of their recruits. Although in defense of Bigby she was in street clothes on Friday and has missed part of the season with injuries. Also, she is playing on a better roster, there is a reasonable chance that Kampschroeder and Marotte are not making the level of contributions at Oregon as they have made at OSU this season. I don't have an easy explanation, but unfortunately this will be the 5th straight season that Oregon has had a better conference record then OSU. I am not sure if it is because of superior recruiting, coaching or player development... or maybe all of the above. Or maybe it is just a run of bad luck and OSU will turn tables. Maybe starting Sunday? Remember at the start of the season when Endyia Rodgers transferred to oregon and everyone was saying she would have no place and there were too many guards?
Not everyone would be happy. Even Scherr has bought into doing anything to help their team win in her words. I believe there are some kids who take team over the I.
Gravey will usually take these back up players and show cases them on what they mean to the team and their role in post pressers. He calls Scherr a swiss army knife and she embraces that role and she gets praised for it.
I wished Scott would do more of that praising the backups more and on their roles. More openly praising of each strengths and what they bring to the team.
I wasn't one of the people who thought Rogers would have no place and there were too many guards. Many Beaver fans were saying this, I doubt many Oregon fans were. It is natural for all fan bases to cast what your opponent/rival does in a negative light, and what your own team does in a positive one. I have heard Graves say in interviews a number of times when asked a question about the PG position say something to the effect of "we don't look at players as PG or shooting guards, we look at them as basketball players" Now of course you need to have a balance of size and perimeter ball skills on the floor to make things work. But I do think modern basketball is less position rigid then it used to be. Keeping your players motivated and engaged, even the ones who are not playing the role or the minutes they want is an important aspect of good coaching. In today's day and age imo it is important for coaches to have the emotional intelligence to successfully manage the various personalities on a team. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 13, 2022 8:52:49 GMT -8
I looked up the recruiting ranking of the players who are currently on the roster who were espnW top 100 recruits. Imo only 2 have played up to their ranking so far - TVO and Jones. Corosdale, Brown and Kampschroeder have been solid and are still hopefully developing. Then obviously the injuries and transfers have hurt. No program is going to hit on all their recruits, but imo we probably need to hit on a higher rate than listed below in order to compete for a conference title. The list below does indicate we have signed some pretty highly ranked recruits, we just haven't gotten enough production out of them. Taya Corosdale ESPN 5 star ranked 27 8 ppg 7.4 rpg 1.4 bpg 43.4 fgp 37.5 3pfg Andrea Aquino – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 has not played Kennedy Brown – ESPN 5 star ranked 20 8 ppg 7.2 rpg 1.3 bpg 43 fgp 28 3pfg Taylor Jones – ESPN 5 star ranked 43 injured 12.4 ppg 6.3 rpg 64 fgp Sasha Goforth – ESPN 5 star ranked 21 transferred Tayla Van Oelhoffen ESPN 4 star ranked 25 14.3 ppg 3.8 rpg 3.6 apg 40 fg 34 3pfg Greta Kampschroeder ESPN 4 star ranked 32 6.3 ppg 2.9 rpg 35 fg 40 3pfg AJ Marotte ESPN 4 star ranked 63 4.8 ppg 1.6 rpg 39 fg 32 3pfg There was someone on this site - I can't remember who - or PO who did a statistical analysis and determined that Rurek and his staff develops players better then Graves and his. I wonder if they still think that.... What does it really mean by developing players? Is TV at Stanford really developing Cameron Brink as an example. Maybe it is recruiting the right pieces that can play together. I all ways though personality, toughness and grit were more important at times than adding up stars. Give me a three that scores 8 points a game and can dive for balls and play defense as an example. I also think there is more room for star players to develop on the defensive side. Most were just used scoring machines in high school. Imo some fans have an overly simplistic view of player development. Coach A develops players better then coach B. I don't think it is that simple. There are a lot of factors that go into how a player develops. Their talent level, how much room do they have for improvement in their game, how hard do they work on their game in the offseason, are they doing the right things to develop their game, etc... I have watched a lot of D1 basketball practices (many coaches did not care if you watched them practice, before the internet) and watched the players do skill development with assistant coaches, it is not rocket science. They tend to work on the same things and do similar drills and skill work. A lot of it has to do with repetition and creating good habits. Many of the best HS players now have personal trainers/skill development coaches. |
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Post by sparty on Feb 13, 2022 9:32:49 GMT -8
Everyone who has chimed in have brought up great points here with thoughtful opinions and insight Good discussions by all. Some of the things brought up I have never considered.
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