|
|
Post by beaverstever on Feb 9, 2022 14:10:24 GMT -8
I get your point, but my view is that this should be a year where our bigs are taking the pressure off of the young guard because they are the experienced players. We shouldn’t be forced to need frosh and transfers to be leading. If Aquino, Morris, Simmons, Goforth, and Samuel had panned out, or at least Kennedy/Jones could regularly combine for 30-35 ppg, this team is easily a tourney team. That’s a lot of recruiting misses too make up for - and part of us not having upperclassmen guards who aren’t transfers was due to the huge investment in bigs that didn’t pan out. Transfers, injuries and unfulfilled potential are all part of the deal - every program has to deal with this. Can you imagine UConn or Stanford missing the tournament? We see Rueck as having built an elite program, but elite programs don’t miss the tournament regardless of some bad luck. Our scale of recruiting misses resulting in a missed postseason means systematic missteps by our coaching staff that needs a complete rethink IMO (which may have already happened, as I previously pointed out) "systematic missteps". So Rueck should have been able to foretell that Aquino would develop heart issues? That Kennedy and now Jones would have injury problems and would be able to play less than a dozen games together? That Morris (who was only ever intended to be a backup so far as I could tell) would be doing so well that she'd transfer out to try to become the starter somewhere else? The only post recruit whose scoring didn't pan out the way Rueck probably hoped for was Jo. So beyond Jo it's been all pac-12 in Ruth to Marie to Taylor. What, you demand 1st team all-americans each year? You might need to adjust your expectations. What I mean by systematic missteps is to assume that ever big project was going to pan out like Marie or Ruth. Mike Riley often spoke of the best indicator of future performance was past performance. If you took a Mike Riley view on Rueck's recruits over the past years few years, you could see that without significant development, scoring was going to fall on the shoulders of a few - of the bigs coming in the last few years, only Taylor was a prolific scorer, the rest did not come in with that reputation, including Aquino. Of the guards, there was more scoring history, but Samuel wasn't the go-to scoring on her HS team, and Simmons was a raw athlete. Greta averaged nearly 18 ppg in HS, but in games with elite talent, she was more of a box-score filler, so there was even an early indication that she would be more of a glue player at the elite level. I had little confidence that TvO was going to have the athleticism to score well at the Pac-12 level, but her dominance of 1:1 play against all-comers indicated she had ways to challenge anybody. Obviously this is all hindsight, but I'm sure the staff saw this and IMO they were over-confident in their ability to develop raw size/athletic talent --and that's now come home to roost. |
|
|
|
Post by beaveragain on Feb 9, 2022 20:59:30 GMT -8
That Frosh down in Cal Berkley who's getting all of the Freshman of the week honors? Guess how many points a game she averaged in HS? Yeah, 18 a game. It's hard guessing how that's going to work out at the college level.
People keep looking for some complicated reason for the Beav's drop in winning % the last few years. Since those 30+ win years the Beav's have had a season ending injury to a starter each year. During those great years, no season ending injuries to a starter.
And to say Rueck should recruit more top ranked players to take the place of people who go down. Yeah, that's demonstrating a complete lack of ability to stay in touch with reality.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Feb 9, 2022 23:16:48 GMT -8
That Frosh down in Cal Berkley who's getting all of the Freshman of the week honors? Guess how many points a game she averaged in HS? Yeah, 18 a game. It's hard guessing how that's going to work out at the college level. People keep looking for some complicated reason for the Beav's drop in winning % the last few years. Since those 30+ win years the Beav's have had a season ending injury to a starter each year. During those great years, no season ending injuries to a starter. And to say Rueck should recruit more top ranked players to take the place of people who go down. Yeah, that's demonstrating a complete lack of ability to stay in touch with reality. Reality shows there is a lack of developmental depth, hence all the portal players. Season ending injuries happen to many elite schools. Having talented depth matters. Plus with or without those injuries OSU is lacking some exterior speed and quickness. Much of their problems stem from TOs that are created by a combo of playing highly athletic opponents and some carelessness. Not sure "more top ranked" is needed. But, more athletic depth is. |
|
|
|
Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 10, 2022 0:07:52 GMT -8
That Frosh down in Cal Berkley who's getting all of the Freshman of the week honors? Guess how many points a game she averaged in HS? Yeah, 18 a game. It's hard guessing how that's going to work out at the college level. People keep looking for some complicated reason for the Beav's drop in winning % the last few years. Since those 30+ win years the Beav's have had a season ending injury to a starter each year. During those great years, no season ending injuries to a starter. And to say Rueck should recruit more top ranked players to take the place of people who go down. Yeah, that's demonstrating a complete lack of ability to stay in touch with reality. Reality shows there is a lack of developmental depth, hence all the portal players. Season ending injuries happen to many elite schools. Having talented depth matters. Plus with or without those injuries OSU is lacking some exterior speed and quickness. Much of their problems stem from TOs that are created by a combo of playing highly athletic opponents and some carelessness. Not sure "more top ranked" is needed. But, more athletic depth is. Yeah, the top programs have quality depth and are not derailed if they lose a starter to injury. UConn has been without the best player in the country and another starter most of the season and are still ranked in the top 10. Oregon was without their best player and beat WSU on the road by 53. If your program can't overcome losing one starter then there is a quality depth issue. I am curious if SRs deliberate half court style of play hurts us at all in recruiting? One thing I often hear from both men and woman's basketball recruits is that they want to play in an up-tempo free flowing offensive. Most of the top teams play pressure defense and transition offense when possible. I wonder if other programs use our methodical offensive approach against us in recruiting? It didn't seem to hurt us in the 22 class, so who knows... |
|
|
|
Post by 411500 on Feb 10, 2022 8:15:15 GMT -8
"I am curious if SRs deliberate half court style of play hurts us at all in recruiting?"
It hurts us in the recruiting of point guards. Especially the really good ones.
It doesn't seem to have hurt his ability to recruit shooting guards, forwards and centers.
On the other hand, Coach Rueck is one of the elite recruiters in the country. He's great at winning over parents, and families trust him (the program) to provide a good 2nd home for their daughters. He's not very good at recruiting premiere black athletes, but I'll leave the explanation of that to someone else.
GO BEAVS!!
|
|
rafer
Sophomore
Posts: 1,627 
|
Post by rafer on Feb 10, 2022 8:25:39 GMT -8
"I am curious if SRs deliberate half court style of play hurts us at all in recruiting?" It hurts us in the recruiting of point guards. Especially the really good ones. It doesn't seem to have hurt his ability to recruit shooting guards, forwards and centers. On the other hand, Coach Rueck is one of the elite recruiters in the country. He's great at winning over parents, and families trust him (the program) to provide a good 2nd home for their daughters. He's not very good at recruiting premiere black athletes, but I'll leave the explanation of that to someone else. GO BEAVS!! Subtle is not your strong suit!! |
|
|
|
Post by rmancarl on Feb 10, 2022 9:08:31 GMT -8
"I am curious if SRs deliberate half court style of play hurts us at all in recruiting?" It hurts us in the recruiting of point guards. Especially the really good ones. It doesn't seem to have hurt his ability to recruit shooting guards, forwards and centers. On the other hand, Coach Rueck is one of the elite recruiters in the country. He's great at winning over parents, and families trust him (the program) to provide a good 2nd home for their daughters. He's not very good at recruiting premiere black athletes, but I'll leave the explanation of that to someone else. GO BEAVS!! I think the real question here is the difference between what SR considers a point guard in his system, and what many on this board think is a true PG. SR told Talia she would play point for the Beavs, and he landed her. Syd, Aleah, Destiny, all brought in by Sr and all played PG in his system. I would say that is pretty good success at landing 'his' PG's (yes even Destiny as a transfer has to be convinced to come to OSU). We can say he's not good at recruiting PG's because we don't consider those he landed as true PG's, but I'm not sure SR's definition of a PG in his system, is the same as what many of the fans consider a true PG. Saying that, besides Taylor's injury, the biggest problem this season is not a PG problem, it's a problem with lack of experienced talented guard/wing play overall. If Greta were a threat, if someone where a threat at the 3 position, we would be looking at everything with a totally different perspective. |
|
|
|
Post by sparty on Feb 10, 2022 9:51:07 GMT -8
"I am curious if SRs deliberate half court style of play hurts us at all in recruiting?" It hurts us in the recruiting of point guards. Especially the really good ones. It doesn't seem to have hurt his ability to recruit shooting guards, forwards and centers. On the other hand, Coach Rueck is one of the elite recruiters in the country. He's great at winning over parents, and families trust him (the program) to provide a good 2nd home for their daughters. He's not very good at recruiting premiere black athletes, but I'll leave the explanation of that to someone else. GO BEAVS!! I think the real question here is the difference between what SR considers a point guard in his system, and what many on this board think is a true PG. SR told Talia she would play point for the Beavs, and he landed her. Syd, Aleah, Destiny, all brought in by Sr and all played PG in his system. I would say that is pretty good success at landing 'his' PG's (yes even Destiny as a transfer has to be convinced to come to OSU). We can say he's not good at recruiting PG's because we don't consider those he landed as true PG's, but I'm not sure SR's definition of a PG in his system, is the same as what many of the fans consider a true PG. Saying that, besides Taylor's injury, the biggest problem this season is not a PG problem, it's a problem with lack of experienced talented guard/wing play overall. If Greta were a threat, if someone where a threat at the 3 position, we would be looking at everything with a totally different perspective. If you look at tsdtr going to the portal can it can pay off if you look at Endyia Rogers who I see as the straw that stirs the drink. Even more so than Paopao |
|
|
|
Post by TheGlove on Feb 10, 2022 10:21:06 GMT -8
Reality shows there is a lack of developmental depth, hence all the portal players. Season ending injuries happen to many elite schools. Having talented depth matters. Plus with or without those injuries OSU is lacking some exterior speed and quickness. Much of their problems stem from TOs that are created by a combo of playing highly athletic opponents and some carelessness. Not sure "more top ranked" is needed. But, more athletic depth is. One thing I often hear from both men and woman's basketball recruits is that they want to play in an up-tempo free flowing offensive. How many basketball recruits are you talking to? |
|
|
|
Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 10, 2022 10:22:12 GMT -8
I watched Oregon against WSU and they have 3 starters who bring the ball up at various times and have PG skills and can initiate the offense, Rogers, Pao Pao and Scheer. Often which ever one gets the ball first or is available for the outlet pass pushes the ball up the court. It used to be that just about every team had a designated PG, now with players becoming more multi skilled often multiple players often have the handles to initiate the offense. It seems that some coaches/programs have more position flexibility than others. When Rogers announced she was going to transfer to Oregon she was asked how she would co-exist with Pao Pao and said the plan was for them to play together. Obviously, size is still needed defensively and for rebounding but imo the more players you have on the floor who have plus ball handling and shooting skills the better.
|
|
|
|
Post by lotrader on Feb 10, 2022 10:25:49 GMT -8
I watched Oregon against WSU and they have 3 starters who bring the ball up at various times and have PG skills and can initiate the offense, Rogers, Pao Pao and Scheer. Often which ever one gets the ball first or is available for the outlet pass pushes the ball up the court. It used to be that just about every team had a designated PG, now with players becoming more multi skilled often multiple players often have the handles to initiate the offense. It seems that some coaches/programs have more position flexibility than others. When Rogers announced she was going to transfer to Oregon she was asked how she would co-exist with Pao Pao and said the plan was for them to play together. Obviously, size is still needed defensively and for rebounding but imo the more players you have on the floor who have plus ball handling and shooting skills the better. Well stated. |
|
|
|
Post by rmancarl on Feb 10, 2022 14:09:37 GMT -8
I watched Oregon against WSU and they have 3 starters who bring the ball up at various times and have PG skills and can initiate the offense, Rogers, Pao Pao and Scheer. Often which ever one gets the ball first or is available for the outlet pass pushes the ball up the court. It used to be that just about every team had a designated PG, now with players becoming more multi skilled often multiple players often have the handles to initiate the offense. It seems that some coaches/programs have more position flexibility than others. When Rogers announced she was going to transfer to Oregon she was asked how she would co-exist with Pao Pao and said the plan was for them to play together. Obviously, size is still needed defensively and for rebounding but imo the more players you have on the floor who have plus ball handling and shooting skills the better. Well stated. And that is how the Beavs operated in recent years. Remember when Mik, Destiny, Katie, and Aleah all could play that role, and could share the ball handling skills. I can only guess, but I think that is what SR would want now, but again, the team is short on experienced talent at the guard/wing position. There is a good chance that will be improved next season, but bringing in at least one more talent would make a huge difference. |
|
|
|
Post by beaveragain on Feb 10, 2022 20:24:50 GMT -8
I watched Oregon against WSU and they have 3 starters who bring the ball up at various times and have PG skills and can initiate the offense, Rogers, Pao Pao and Scheer. Often which ever one gets the ball first or is available for the outlet pass pushes the ball up the court. It used to be that just about every team had a designated PG, now with players becoming more multi skilled often multiple players often have the handles to initiate the offense. It seems that some coaches/programs have more position flexibility than others. When Rogers announced she was going to transfer to Oregon she was asked how she would co-exist with Pao Pao and said the plan was for them to play together. Obviously, size is still needed defensively and for rebounding but imo the more players you have on the floor who have plus ball handling and shooting skills the better. Paopao was recruited as the PG and has been the starter ever since (when she is healthy). Rogers was the starting PG on another Pac-12 team who transferred in. Not really the norm for teams anywhere. When Paopao was injured last season Graves complained about how he didn't have anyone who could play the point (kind of a nasty shot at Chavez since she'd be a backup PG for a couple of years). Scheer became the default PG as someone had to do the job last year. Everyone is a PG consists of three players at UofO and is a really abnormal situation. |
|
|
|
Post by markwbeaver on Feb 11, 2022 0:53:33 GMT -8
Wasn't Paopao at some point sought after by the Beavers in the recruiting process? It seems to me that the great Kiana Williams at Stanford was also someone that the Beavers went after hard.
The nature of recruiting seems to be that you are always seriously pursuing at least twice as many players as you eventually get. This is true, I think, for point guards and for all teams.
I know this slides off the point guard discussion, but I think the miss that disappointed me the most was the first Sabally. I believe it came to down to us being in her final two, and I thought the Beavers had a great chance because of the connection with Gulich. I never got over thinking of how good she would have looked in a Beaver uniform.
|
|
|
|
Post by fridaynightlights on Feb 11, 2022 2:24:31 GMT -8
I watched Oregon against WSU and they have 3 starters who bring the ball up at various times and have PG skills and can initiate the offense, Rogers, Pao Pao and Scheer. Often which ever one gets the ball first or is available for the outlet pass pushes the ball up the court. It used to be that just about every team had a designated PG, now with players becoming more multi skilled often multiple players often have the handles to initiate the offense. It seems that some coaches/programs have more position flexibility than others. When Rogers announced she was going to transfer to Oregon she was asked how she would co-exist with Pao Pao and said the plan was for them to play together. Obviously, size is still needed defensively and for rebounding but imo the more players you have on the floor who have plus ball handling and shooting skills the better. Paopao was recruited as the PG and has been the starter ever since (when she is healthy). Rogers was the starting PG on another Pac-12 team who transferred in. Not really the norm for teams anywhere. When Paopao was injured last season Graves complained about how he didn't have anyone who could play the point (kind of a nasty shot at Chavez since she'd be a backup PG for a couple of years). Scheer became the default PG as someone had to do the job last year. Everyone is a PG consists of three players at UofO and is a really abnormal situation. All 3 of them are eligible to return next season and they are also bringing in Chance Grey another player who is listed as a PG. This season Scheer leads them in assists followed by Pao Pao and then Rogers. Just from my experience speaking with coaches and going to clinics, what players are designated as has become less important over the years, whether it be Point Guard, Combo Guard or just a versatile basketball player. The more players you have with skilled handles, can shoot the 3 and who have the quicks to get their own shot and defend.... the better. |
|
