|
Post by skyrider on Jan 29, 2022 9:12:27 GMT -8
I have not contributed a thread for several years but have followed the team closely on this site, and on TV.
My conclusion (which I hope is incorrect) is that the program has taken a rather dramatic turn downward over the past couple of years.
Coach Rueck has been an outstanding coach and clearly will have the job as long as he wishes. However, the disturbing trends that I perceive are likely to lead to some dismal seasons.
(1) Failure to recruit true point guards (year after year). Yes he takes the best shooting guard and turns her into a point guard and in several cases they have done well (Sydney, Aleah), but then you have your best shooter not playing shooting guard.
(2) Failure to develop post players. Last real success story was Marie Gulich. Probably not fair to say Taylor Jones is not working out, because she clearly has had very significant injury problems and may never be a factor again. Somebody on the coaching staff is not developing post talent the way they used to.
(3) Lots of poor judgments being made in regards to who we are recruiting and signing. The team has always had good three point shooters, now we are the absolute worst. You listen to what Coach Rueck says about all the improvements the various players are making and then you watch the product on the basketball court and you see a team that is likely to finish at or near the bottom in the conference.
(4) Team is often playing "not to lose" rather than to win. They look like a team that is being over controlled and over coached by an excessively domineering coach.
I am still rooting the Beavs but am afraid that we are on a long downward slide with Coach Rueck.
(
|
|
beav74
Freshman
Posts: 741
Grad Year: OSU 1974
|
Post by beav74 on Jan 29, 2022 10:13:39 GMT -8
Much of your post has good merit. However, I think you’re comparing apples to oranges. Granted, Oregon States program is not where it was a few years ago. The growth in women’s basketball has excelled in the last few years and the point I think you are missing is…there are programs that have caught up with the “joneses.” Girl basketball players coming out of high school have far more choices today then they did 8-10 years ago. Just look how UConn dominated women’s basketball years ago. And how Stanford ruled the PAC-12! The bar has been raised and more teams today are clearing the bar.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 29, 2022 10:26:44 GMT -8
Your points are well stated and insightful.
However, according to both Coach Rueck and the various recruiting services, our quality of recruits has increased over the past several years and therefore OSU should have been able to keep improving and not necessarily had many other programs catch up with them.
I still maintain that some key components of recruiting and developing of players after they arrive on campus are lacking as compared to past years.
Perhaps, as is so often the case with OSU sports teams, the Athletic Department is unwilling to step up and pay to obtain and keep quality assistant coaches for women's basketball.
|
|
mrazz
Freshman
Posts: 104
|
Post by mrazz on Jan 29, 2022 10:39:54 GMT -8
Rider, you make four valid observations that I won't deny appear. I think there are four good reasons (not excuses, realities) we all have to live with. 1) Covid, 2) Injuries, 3) the Portal, 4) SUCCESS. Everyone has to play with the first three, but number four is biting us in the...tail right now. Somewhere I read recently that OSU is in the Top 10 for wins over the last ten years. People take notice of that and if you don't lose your Head Coach, you damn sure will lose your assistant coaches. We have and it is hurting us to a certain extent in recruiting, improving and play on the floor. It is a reality that will improve over time--proven by Rueck's record. To your observations, I think we find the best (some years only) guard that can get the ball up the court and she becomes the Point by default. This limits her potential right up to the point she decides to put the team on her back and do it herself. Felecia had to do this, Syd did a lot of this (especially when Jamie broke her hand punching a wall at ASU), and Aleah had enough options available that we only rarely saw her "have" to take over a game. I will grant you her most memorable games, offensively, came as a shooting guard. It must be said, however, her defense is what I miss most. The Post play this year is in complete disarray due to injury. You have one gifted player playing out of position and it shows. Another young player, who is progressing by leaps and bounds, is still a covid Freshman on the roster. When it was Marie's time to start or when she came in to give Ruth a breather, it was not always pretty or productive. This is D1 Women's Basketball in a very tough league. It will improve, it is improving every game. Item three is real and falls mostly on that Success problem. We are getting ladies from all over the country and sometimes it's hard to get a good read when you are so far away. Add to that the fact that the coach that recruited you may have moved on; or you find you are not the best player/don't want to wait your turn/or you just miss home...and the Portal comes into view. The concept that we are playing "not to lose" is the only observation that made me laugh out loud! How do you play not to lose from behind? Which is where we have been way too often this season. I get what you are saying. Rueck plays a very controlled tempo offense. At times, I find it boring to be honest. But you cannot look at his body of coaching results and say it doesn't work! I left last night's game wondering how we pulled that off. I was thinking that USC should be ashamed that they lost that lead. Hell, they were playing 7-on-5 for three and a half quarters (and even at that, the refs just swallowed their whistles near the end like they had a plane to catch) and still let us back in the game. But solid defense combined with just enough offense and more True Grit than I have seen in a long time, were enough for the Beavs to come out on top. No slide. Just a case of the league catching up a little, the injury bug taking it's turn on us and growing pains. Keep the faith and enjoy the ride.
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 29, 2022 10:55:52 GMT -8
Your points are well stated and insightful. However, according to both Coach Rueck and the various recruiting services, our quality of recruits has increased over the past several years and therefore OSU should have been able to keep improving and not necessarily had many other programs catch up with them. I still maintain that some key components of recruiting and developing of players after they arrive on campus are lacking as compared to past years. Perhaps, as is so often the case with OSU sports teams, the Athletic Department is unwilling to step up and pay to obtain and keep quality assistant coaches for women's basketball. One assistant left to become the head coach at Montana. No amount of money was going to keep him here. The other, who wanted the same job, left because she thought the head coach favored one assistant over the other when asked by Montana who he would recommend (given the Griz's success, it appears his recommendation was solid). She did not leave because of money. Pursuing, or properly paying, assistant coaches has not been a problem in the women's program. How about you give the new assistants more than seven or eight months to grow into their jobs.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 29, 2022 11:15:18 GMT -8
Excellent information and analysis Henry!
I know how closely you follow the program. Why is the field goal shooting (3 pointers/mid range/layups/etc) so terrible this year? Clearly they are unlikely to win many games this way.
Thanks for all your contributions to the website?
What is your opinion of the fact that UCLA is being forced to forfeit their game to the Ducks due to a lack players? Why is that the case for this particular game and not so for the many others that have been postponed? Maybe a few bucks from Phil Knight influenced the decision( Just Kidding!)
|
|
|
Post by rmancarl on Jan 29, 2022 11:18:13 GMT -8
First, you can't deny that the team thus far this season, and the 1st half of last season, would be considered 'down'in comparison to previous years, but I think these two years are too small of a timeframe to consider this a long term trend. With two top 10 recruiting years in a row, you would expect a bright future. To some of your points: 1---If you say the Beavs have had success with two non-point guards (you mentioned Aleah and Syd...I'll add Mik), I'd say if you are correct, then why bother with a true point guard? I'd be thrilled with the success the team had with Syd, Mik, etc and could care less if we land a 'true' point guard under those circumstances. Personally, I would like to see a 'true' point guard on this team, but I'm more than fine having Talia run the point if she had another ball handling threat running the back court with her. Right now, there just isn't anyone in the backcourt/wing that is a threat, and that puts a ton of pressure on Talia. 2---Post....well, our healthy Post are still young and it seems to be they are developing. You can see a world of difference in Jelena's game, and Kennedy is progressing. She's only a sophomore who didn't play a full freshman season. 3---Poor judgements in recruiting---I think the biggest miss is that SR never wanted a full roster, but with the way players are getting injured these days, and how easy it is to transfer, my feelings are that you use every available scholarship. Injuries and transfers can take you down quickly. Look at UCLA....two straight years of barely having enough players to play. 4---Current version of this team is playing defense to win. They are not good enough offensively to aggressively 'play to win' . With only one major scoring threat, it's tough outscore anyone. This team must play tough D to stay in games. Yes, this has been a problem last year and this year, but all indications are it won't be in the future.
I don't totally disagree with your comments, but I do look at the overall state of the program differently. I do think your "long downward slide with Coach Rueck" comment will prove to not hold up well over the next few years.
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 29, 2022 11:24:19 GMT -8
Thank you for your input. Well organized and illuminating. The fact that we only have "one major scoring threat" seems rather astonishing to me, given that we have had outstanding 3 point shooters year after year. Where are they now? Do I not recall, Coach Rueck praising his new recruits for their ability in that area?
|
|
|
Post by shelby on Jan 29, 2022 11:30:06 GMT -8
I ‘believe’ that I see some tension between Rueck and Huth on the sidelines . Does not seem that Scott engages with her willingly on the sidelines and when she is trying to talk to him - he is not paying attention to her . This could have been a bad choice and may be hurting us now. There was a much closer interaction between Scott and Faulkner!
I may be way off base and am not trying to be critical -but, just watch closely next game.
As far as development of the bigs - I personally do not think we have had enough injury free time between Jelena, Taylor and Kennedy to be able to fairly judge that. I have seen improvement in all three though . Kennedy was GREAT last night. She was being fouled the entire game ( hard ), and USC was collapsing three to the hoop every time they were on defense - primarily to stop TVO’s driving lay ups . Go Beavers
|
|
|
Post by skyrider on Jan 29, 2022 11:36:08 GMT -8
Thanks for the excellent observation. Seem like with Talia driving to the hoop there should be all sorts of good three point looks for the other guard and the wing players. Hard to fathom why they shooting such a terrible percentage.
|
|
osu82
Freshman
Posts: 656
|
Post by osu82 on Jan 29, 2022 12:13:37 GMT -8
I think part of the perception of the program "sliding backwards" is, in part, colored by the success of the outstanding group of players that went through SR's program from 2012-2017, which culminated in the 2016 Final Four appearance. He had three 1st or 2nd round WNBA draft picks starting on that squad (Hamblin, Weisner, and Wiese), a Pac-12 POY in Weisner, a future Pac-12 defensive POY (2017) in Gabby Hansen, plus a solid core of players on the bench, including a future WNBA 1st round draft pick in Marie Gulich. That's a tough act to follow. He's just never had anything close to that amount of talent on any of his squads at one time since then, even though he's had some great individual players in the program (ie Pivec and Goodman, to name two).
And, as others have pointed out, the quality of the other teams has elevated greatly over the past 6-7 years, particularity with the emergence of the Oregon and Arizona programs as top-25 teams. Its just a tougher environment in the conference now.
That said, though SR has always fielded good to great defensive teams, and that is what he's hung his coaching "hat" on. They've always ranked high in defensive rebounding, rebounding margin, and defensive field goal percentage, etc. I think he does need to evolve his offensive philosophy from what he's been doing though. If he continues to get his teams into the NCAA tournament he's going to run into those teams they can't really shut down defensively (Louisville as example) and they will need to be able to be dynamic on the O-side of the ball to be competitive. The Beavs just aren't very dynamic offensively right now.
|
|
|
Post by bvrbooster on Jan 29, 2022 12:17:49 GMT -8
I know very little about basketball, but my observation is that, offensively, this team is poorly coached - but well coached on defense. There is simply too little player movement in reaction to what the ball handler (true point guard or not) is doing - player A has the ball at the top of the key and drives toward the left side of the basket. Player B shifts to this position, C to there, and so on. Instead, players B and C have stood around like potted plants for a few seconds, so when player A picks up her dribble, she has nowhere to go with the ball.
All too often, our girls simply look lost, resulting in turnovers or poor shots with time running out on the clock. This simply shouldn't be happening this late in the year when you have a bunch of 5 star recruits on the floor.
I will not be surprised if Scott makes some coaching changes in the offseason.
|
|
|
Post by william44 on Jan 29, 2022 12:29:46 GMT -8
I have enjoyed the comments regarding this. I watch Jelena hoping She can get better. Not sure because Ruth really blocked and developed inside game. Jelena brings Her arms down sometimes and often does not get to the pass. Whether it is coaching or lack we all agree the offense is very dragnet. Hesitant might be a better word. Seems some are reluctant and few seem to create the shot. Motion is way to slow and wasting 12 or 13 seconds over a game limits our touches. Since we turn the ball over our deliberate style only slows down the game and may hurt us as much or more than opponents. Not aware of tensions, but that can explain a few things. One would have to Focus in Scott and Huth to really know. Good insights guys.
|
|
|
Post by grad1973 on Jan 29, 2022 13:29:04 GMT -8
I have not contributed a thread for several years but have followed the team closely on this site, and on TV.
My conclusion (which I hope is incorrect) is that the program has taken a rather dramatic turn downward over the past couple of years.
Coach Rueck has been an outstanding coach and clearly will have the job as long as he wishes. However, the disturbing trends that I perceive are likely to lead to some dismal seasons.
(1) Failure to recruit true point guards (year after year). Yes he takes the best shooting guard and turns her into a point guard and in several cases they have done well (Sydney, Aleah), but then you have your best shooter not playing shooting guard.
(2) Failure to develop post players. Last real success story was Marie Gulich. Probably not fair to say Taylor Jones is not working out, because she clearly has had very significant injury problems and may never be a factor again. Somebody on the coaching staff is not developing post talent the way they used to.
(3) Lots of poor judgments being made in regards to who we are recruiting and signing. The team has always had good three point shooters, now we are the absolute worst. You listen to what Coach Rueck says about all the improvements the various players are making and then you watch the product on the basketball court and you see a team that is likely to finish at or near the bottom in the conference.
(4) Team is often playing "not to lose" rather than to win. They look like a team that is being over controlled and over coached by an excessively domineering coach.
I am still rooting the Beavs but am afraid that we are on a long downward slide with Coach Rueck.
(
I agree with parts of your post others not so sure. Rueck has sought out really good point guards, Clark from Iowa he almost got here. Eneskue at oregon. But he does tend to convert wings to point totally with you on that. One other positive he has three very good three point shooters for 2022 coming in but as of yet not one serious PG that he is seeking for 2023 or 2024? One of the good three point shooters is a post in Timea gardiner then two wings. However Reagan beers also in the 2022 can nail threes also. To be fair to Rueck shooting 3s is still a major priority. Totally with you about posts. Something is just flawed there with this staff. With offensive post fundamentals, again until Reagan and Timea show up. Last, it’s frustrating understanding Ruecks lack of emphasis with finding, not so much PG’s, but quickness in the back court. Although Sasha Goforth and savanna if here still, would have made our perimeter defense much tougher. br]We need, as many have said some quick footed ladies to shore up our defense and press breaking problems. Butwe proved last nite that we could beat a very fast team. That was amazing. Give these girls credit because they wanted that game and won it inspite of the hard match ups we had!
|
|
|
Post by bvrbooster on Jan 29, 2022 14:42:42 GMT -8
Here's our national ranking in several categories:
DEFENSIVE
Opponent FG% 15th Opponent Scoring 65th Rebound Margin 11th Blocks per Game 5th
OFFENSIVE
Scoring 154th FG% 152nd 3 pt. FG% 83rd Turnovers 112th
|
|