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Post by bvrbooster on Jan 26, 2022 18:45:11 GMT -8
There has been much written recently, especially today, about our anemic offense that I thought it might be woth starting a thread just to discuss it.
For what it's worth, here are our scoring averages for the last 5 years, with oldest first and this year last:
NON-CONFERENCE GAMES
75.3 82.5 77.9 88.5 (2 games only) 70.7
CONFERENCE GAMES
69.6 73.6 67.8 73.3 55.0 (thru 4 games)
Not a good sign.
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Post by lotrader on Jan 27, 2022 7:55:29 GMT -8
Alarming! Won't win many PAC-12 games averaging 55.0 points per game. Someone else pointed out that in the WSU game, it didn't look like we had any offensive sets other than the high post screen for our guards. I'm used to seeing actual offensive sets being executed. Lack of a point guard like Aleah, Syd, Destiny is definitely one of the major issues in getting defenses to not overplay the passing lanes and respect our point guard's ability to score (outside shot, getting to the rim, etc.).
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Post by lotrader on Jan 27, 2022 7:57:07 GMT -8
I'll be at both games this weekend. True test of character for OSU WBB Program this weekend. Will they bring the OSU grit, toughness, etc. and make us forgot the debacle in Pullman?
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Post by wbosh15 on Jan 27, 2022 8:41:44 GMT -8
OSU's offense is based on 2 things
1 - A post player who can get deep position and score reasonably efficiently. 2 - A PG who can read the defense out of a high pick and roll, and make the right play depending on the defense. And very importantly, punish a D by drilling threes if the guard tries to go under the screen.
Most of the focus has been on the issues with the guard play, but I think some of the issue start with our posts without TJ. KB and Jelena sets good screens, but doesn't seem to have the lower body strength to get really good position in the paint. Taylor when she posts up is getting 5, 6 feet from the rim or closer. KB especially is getting pushed out 10, 12 feet or farther when she tries to post up. This disrupts the spacing of the rest of the offense. Also, when Taylor gets the ball deep where on an offensive rebound or a post up, it's 2 points. She was shooting 65% from the field and has been well above 50% her entire career. Both Jelena and KB tend to miss more than there fair share of layups. Deeper position and better finishing by the posts would help a TON.
As for the point guards, Tea Adams got into the paint several times yesterday, but made the wrong read. I'm not sure if the shot blocks of Mulkey from Sunday where in her head, but she tried to pass off several times when she should have just layed it in. She also isn't really a large threat to just pull on the 3 if folks go under the screen.
Talia to me just needs to trust her eyes a little bit more. I think she's trying to make the perfect play, instead of just making the simple one. I also think she's pressing because she's not shooting as well from 3. I think we will win at least one game this year against a very good team, simply because TVO will get hot shooting the ball. If we can knock down threes it will make a big, big difference.
Finally, I want to see the 3 freshman guard play more together. I think sooner or later a Greta is going to figure it out, and have some big games. This season may have some growing pains, and isn't as smooth as we want it to be, but I'm going to enjoy watching these players improve.
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Post by greybeav on Jan 27, 2022 9:30:42 GMT -8
Very well said wbosh15, thanks for the analysis.
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Post by collegiate on Jan 27, 2022 9:49:16 GMT -8
Really good comments in this thread. So, do the issues outlined by Bosch completely explain why it looks like we aren’t running any offensive sets? That is, we are trying to run them but just aren’t able to execute? For sure, there is not much movement on offense. Pretty easy to defend.
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Post by shelby on Jan 27, 2022 9:53:26 GMT -8
To some degree , a good defense improves your offense- 1) turnovers ? We were on the wrong side of that one on both in bound plays and careless passing 2) Rebounding ? WSU consistently had three players under hoop when we were on offense - lots of one and done shots, clock penalties, and 'forced' shots ! Really basic stuff 3) Our 'ability' to hit a lay-in is pretty awful. It wasn't even body positioning , but they clanged 'several' shots against the underside of the backboard and the rim itself - when there was little pressure 4) Soft - we were outmuscled throughout the game 5) We didn't start any semblance of a 'press' until the game was out of reach. I would have turned the pressure up at the very beginning of the fourth quarter Effort wise - not there We miss Jones, and our 'assistant' coaches are not adding a lot. Other than that - Go Beavers
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Post by sparty on Jan 27, 2022 9:59:38 GMT -8
All good points here.
I think it is important to develop a pipeline at the PG position.
Hate to say it but tsdtr has Paopao and gets five star Chance Gray next year. Gray will have the opportunity to learn college ball without being thrown into the fire. Right now things are out of sync with that position for Scott.
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Post by beavheart on Jan 27, 2022 11:21:01 GMT -8
From Sydney Weise to Aleah Goodman there has always been a player on our roster that could rub off the high screen a drain a 3 since Rueck has been at OSU. Weise was especially clutch hitting a ton of late-game daggers to seal wins. Also, there has always been that slasher/Jill-of-all-trades player on the roster from Weisner to McWilliams to Pivec that would contribute from all levels of the floor.
I see neither of those players on this team. The only player we have that can break down her defender and get around a screen (Adams) literally will not shoot from 3. Teams know it, and sag their D which shuts down the pick and roll. And we're getting killed on the boards because Jones is out, and no one seems to have that knack of following the shot and battling for boards.
Yes, this team is young and there's growing pains, but I'm concerned with the guards that are coming in next year that we are looking at what we will get from this version of a Rueck coached team. Lot's of talented bigs, and a bunch of bigger "2" guards who lack the speed and handles to facilitate the offense. Agree with many here - we desperately need a ball handler that can shoot the 3, and Rueck needs to be more flexible with his philosophy to match the players he has.
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Post by wbosh15 on Jan 27, 2022 11:44:23 GMT -8
Really good comments in this thread. So, do the issues outlined by Bosch completely explain why it looks like we aren’t running any offensive sets? That is, we are trying to run them but just aren’t able to execute? For sure, there is not much movement on offense. Pretty easy to defend. We are still running stuff, it's just getting blown up at the first action so we aren't getting into any of the secondary or tertiary looks. The only thing we are really running well consistently is the set we used to get Taya and Jelena the 3's against Colorado. That got us a good look from 3 for both Taya and Ellie on Wednesday but they didn't knock it down. Scott's never really ran a pass a screen away or motion offense, mostly relying on 1/4 or "horns" sets on offense and plays off of them. Historically we have gotten 4-5 layups a game off a backscreen set for the big out of that action, but we haven't hit on that much lately either. When we've ran it we have either passed it late and it's been tipped, or the big isn't open and we still try to force it. I think if we really are missing TJ for the rest of the year Scott will go to perhaps something a bit different as the base set. I wish I could watch the last 4 minutes or so of yesterdays game again, because we seemed to be running some different sets there and both Greta and AJ got to the rim. I think our hopes are going to be based on the game slowing down for those two, and TVO just relaxing and knocking down shots.
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Post by lotrader on Jan 27, 2022 12:21:53 GMT -8
Really good comments in this thread. So, do the issues outlined by Bosch completely explain why it looks like we aren’t running any offensive sets? That is, we are trying to run them but just aren’t able to execute? For sure, there is not much movement on offense. Pretty easy to defend. We are still running stuff, it's just getting blown up at the first action so we aren't getting into any of the secondary or tertiary looks. The only thing we are really running well consistently is the set we used to get Taya and Jelena the 3's against Colorado. That got us a good look from 3 for both Taya and Ellie on Wednesday but they didn't knock it down. Scott's never really ran a pass a screen away or motion offense, mostly relying on 1/4 or "horns" sets on offense and plays off of them. Historically we have gotten 4-5 layups a game off a backscreen set for the big out of that action, but we haven't hit on that much lately either. When we've ran it we have either passed it late and it's been tipped, or the big isn't open and we still try to force it. I think if we really are missing TJ for the rest of the year Scott will go to perhaps something a bit different as the base set. I wish I could watch the last 4 minutes or so of yesterdays game again, because we seemed to be running some different sets there and both Greta and AJ got to the rim. I think our hopes are going to be based on the game slowing down for those two, and TVO just relaxing and knocking down shots. Solid observations by everyone. PG & scoring BIG important in OSU system. In the last 4 minutes we dialed up the defensive pressure from the moment the ball was inbounded, and that helped. More importantly, AJ & Greta started going to the rim. We absolutely need to see AJ & Greta at the rim this weekend, & throughout the entire game (not just late in the game when we are desperate). AJ & Greta shoot a decent percentage from the free-throw line. Gut check this weekend.
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Post by OSUprof on Jan 27, 2022 13:56:09 GMT -8
OSU looks like a team that has not played many games and the key elements of the offense takes reps under game conditions in order to execute. The Beavs have only played 4 games in the past 5 weeks. Not much game action to get the offense going.
The top 5 teams in the Pac-12 with better than 0.500 records in conference have played an average 16.4 games to date. The bottom 7 teams with 0.500 or below records have played an average 14.9 games so far.
OSU has played in only 14 games to date and only the last place team has fewer games played to date - 12 games.
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Post by beaverstever on Jan 27, 2022 14:00:37 GMT -8
OSU looks like a team that has not played many games and the key elements of the offense takes reps under game conditions in order to execute. The Beavs have only played 4 games in the past 5 weeks. Not much game action to get the offense going.
The top 5 teams in the Pac-12 with better than 0.500 records in conference have played an average 16.4 games to date. The bottom 7 teams with 0.500 or below records have played an average 14.9 games so far.
OSU has played in only 14 games to date and only the last place team has fewer games played to date - 12 games.
What is this - the lottery?! You mean you have to play to win?
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Post by rmancarl on Jan 27, 2022 14:20:10 GMT -8
Really good comments in this thread. So, do the issues outlined by Bosch completely explain why it looks like we aren’t running any offensive sets? That is, we are trying to run them but just aren’t able to execute? For sure, there is not much movement on offense. Pretty easy to defend. We are still running stuff, it's just getting blown up at the first action so we aren't getting into any of the secondary or tertiary looks. The only thing we are really running well consistently is the set we used to get Taya and Jelena the 3's against Colorado. That got us a good look from 3 for both Taya and Ellie on Wednesday but they didn't knock it down. Scott's never really ran a pass a screen away or motion offense, mostly relying on 1/4 or "horns" sets on offense and plays off of them. Historically we have gotten 4-5 layups a game off a backscreen set for the big out of that action, but we haven't hit on that much lately either. When we've ran it we have either passed it late and it's been tipped, or the big isn't open and we still try to force it. I think if we really are missing TJ for the rest of the year Scott will go to perhaps something a bit different as the base set. I wish I could watch the last 4 minutes or so of yesterdays game again, because we seemed to be running some different sets there and both Greta and AJ got to the rim. I think our hopes are going to be based on the game slowing down for those two, and TVO just relaxing and knocking down shots. Good answer. We're definitely still running plays, but are struggling at it. Two or three times early we attempted to have wing/guard cut to the hoop, getting the pass from the big. They were covered well, timing was off, passes weren't perfect. It was actually a little painful to watch and left me wondering how often we are running this in practice, and how well is it being defended in practice? Besides all of that, this team just misses their open shots. If it wasn't for the Noelle, your usual contributors were 0-10 from three. How would the game have gone had they shot 3-10, which should be a given from this team. Unfortunately, Talia is not shooting as good as last season, Ellie isn't either. Emily has been horrific, which is not what we would expect given her history. Taya, who is having a good 3pt shooting season, only had one attempt. Whatever happens the rest of this season, the future is still bright.
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Post by rgeorge on Jan 27, 2022 15:58:45 GMT -8
PG play is super important. And SR's offense is no different. But, I believe SR wants a more "ball control/shooter" vs a free wheeling penetrator.
He wants controlled action and set plays unless in transition. Many of the 4/5* types are more up and down, and play at their own pace. A player like Destiny was super effective and b exciting at times, but she appeared to frustrate SR too.
IMHO just any old 5* PG is not a fit his style/preference?!
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