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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 17, 2021 14:11:01 GMT -8
Atheism is a religious belief system that can neither be proven nor disproven and is thus based upon faith in much the same way that every other religion is a religious belief system that can neither be proven nor disproven and is thus based upon faith. If your beliefs are based on anything other than evidence and outlandish gimmicks, it must be based on faith. That is where your Santa Claus correlation falls apart, because you must ignore evidence and instead rely on outlandish gimmicks. As for proselytizing, I have never been approached by a Catholic, because I am one. I have gotten preached to by other faiths and atheists. Why would a proselytizing atheist preach to the choir? Although, I would hazard to guess that once upon a time, an atheist proselytized you. The benefit to the atheist is usually to refocus an individual upon this life in the (I would say misguided) belief that you are thereby making the world a better place. Before I tumble too far down an esoteric rabbit hole, though, the Second and Seventh Circuit Courts of Appeals have found that atheism is a "religion." I will leave it to you as to whether the various Courts of Appeal determining that atheism is "true" philosophically. But given the case law, I would say that an esoteric discussion about whether atheism is a religion or not is pretty moot. Rely on gimmicks? Ignore evidence? Are you sure you’re talking about belief in Santa, not some dude whose body you eat at church on Sundays? Had a priest tell me all about this sacred host that bleeds, all the while looking like a child talking about Santa and naming his reindeer. It’s the same sort of belief, though with different intentions. Question: if a person were to avoid religion her whole life, would she be an atheist in your view, or must one profess themselves to be an atheist to actually be an atheist? As for me being an atheist, you are wrong. I am not an atheist. I dislike how Christians (including Catholics) think that this is a Christian nation. I dislike how much organized religion there is in politics. I can’t stand the hypocrisy that seems part and parcel with organized religion. But I am not atheist. I mean: The blood in Betania is AB-type blood of an XY male, which matches the blood found on both the Shroud of Turin, the Sudarium of Oviedo, the Corporeal of Bolsena, the 8th century Lanciano miracle and the 1996 Buenos Aires Miracle. I am unsure if any or all are outlandish gimmicks. But, to the extent that they are not (and especially taken in conjunction with one another), they certainly point to a certain conclusion that is not much of a leap of faith. Atheists, in my mind, definitively reject God or gods. I believe that individuals that have not been exposed to God or gods are neither theists nor atheists. But that is just in my mind. Maybe that is what you were getting at initially? Generally, everyone profoundly dislikes hypocrisy. I believe that it was Gandhi said that he would "be a Christian, if it were not for the Christians." The failings, fallings, foibles and hypocrisy of others often make it very difficult, sometimes impossible, to be a Christian. But, in the end, they should not interfere with your personal relationship with your god. If your personal relationship is strongest outside of a formal religion and you can be your best self without anyone else, that is great. If you need a bunch of imperfect humans to help you with your relationship and to be your best self, that is also great. I sometimes think that it is good that a lot of those hypocrites are Christian. Just imagine how big of a-holes they would be, if they were not Christian. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Aug 17, 2021 14:15:09 GMT -8
This thread reminds me of a line from the Grateful Dead...What a long strange trip it's been.
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Post by irimi on Aug 17, 2021 14:46:08 GMT -8
Rely on gimmicks? Ignore evidence? Are you sure you’re talking about belief in Santa, not some dude whose body you eat at church on Sundays? Had a priest tell me all about this sacred host that bleeds, all the while looking like a child talking about Santa and naming his reindeer. It’s the same sort of belief, though with different intentions. Question: if a person were to avoid religion her whole life, would she be an atheist in your view, or must one profess themselves to be an atheist to actually be an atheist? As for me being an atheist, you are wrong. I am not an atheist. I dislike how Christians (including Catholics) think that this is a Christian nation. I dislike how much organized religion there is in politics. I can’t stand the hypocrisy that seems part and parcel with organized religion. But I am not atheist. I mean: The blood in Betania is AB-type blood of an XY male, which matches the blood found on both the Shroud of Turin, the Sudarium of Oviedo, the Corporeal of Bolsena, the 8th century Lanciano miracle and the 1996 Buenos Aires Miracle. I am unsure if any or all are outlandish gimmicks. But, to the extent that they are not (and especially taken in conjunction with one another), they certainly point to a certain conclusion that is not much of a leap of faith. Atheists, in my mind, definitively reject God or gods. I believe that individuals that have not been exposed to God or gods are neither theists nor atheists. But that is just in my mind. Maybe that is what you were getting at initially? Generally, everyone profoundly dislikes hypocrisy. I believe that it was Gandhi said that he would "be a Christian, if it were not for the Christians." The failings, fallings, foibles and hypocrisy of others often make it very difficult, sometimes impossible, to be a Christian. But, in the end, they should not interfere with your personal relationship with your god. If your personal relationship is strongest outside of a formal religion and you can be your best self without anyone else, that is great. If you need a bunch of imperfect humans to help you with your relationship and to be your best self, that is also great.
I sometimes think that it is good that a lot of those hypocrites are Christian. Just imagine how big of a-holes they would be, if they were not Christian.Guess I have seen too many who have used their religion to be a-holes. Probably that is harder for a fellow believer to see, so I won’t expect you to fully understand that. You are correct that for a person who has already accepted that a man could turn water into wine and raise the dead, then it’s no leap to think that he can make bread bleed with his blood, though he has been dead for nearly 2000 years. I don’t understand why it is easier for Christians to believe that Jesus will reach down and personally protect them than to believe that the documented science behind the vaccine. Plus, we have tons of evidence of Jesus not protecting them…and only Jules witnessing Divine Intervention. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 17, 2021 21:53:10 GMT -8
I mean: The blood in Betania is AB-type blood of an XY male, which matches the blood found on both the Shroud of Turin, the Sudarium of Oviedo, the Corporeal of Bolsena, the 8th century Lanciano miracle and the 1996 Buenos Aires Miracle. I am unsure if any or all are outlandish gimmicks. But, to the extent that they are not (and especially taken in conjunction with one another), they certainly point to a certain conclusion that is not much of a leap of faith. Atheists, in my mind, definitively reject God or gods. I believe that individuals that have not been exposed to God or gods are neither theists nor atheists. But that is just in my mind. Maybe that is what you were getting at initially? Generally, everyone profoundly dislikes hypocrisy. I believe that it was Gandhi said that he would "be a Christian, if it were not for the Christians." The failings, fallings, foibles and hypocrisy of others often make it very difficult, sometimes impossible, to be a Christian. But, in the end, they should not interfere with your personal relationship with your god. If your personal relationship is strongest outside of a formal religion and you can be your best self without anyone else, that is great. If you need a bunch of imperfect humans to help you with your relationship and to be your best self, that is also great.
I sometimes think that it is good that a lot of those hypocrites are Christian. Just imagine how big of a-holes they would be, if they were not Christian.Guess I have seen too many who have used their religion to be a-holes. Probably that is harder for a fellow believer to see, so I won’t expect you to fully understand that. You are correct that for a person who has already accepted that a man could turn water into wine and raise the dead, then it’s no leap to think that he can make bread bleed with his blood, though he has been dead for nearly 2000 years. I don’t understand why it is easier for Christians to believe that Jesus will reach down and personally protect them than to believe that the documented science behind the vaccine. Plus, we have tons of evidence of Jesus not protecting them…and only Jules witnessing Divine Intervention. You're second paragraph reminded me of a conversation with a guy that I worked with at Ventura County. He had a butt-rock haircut for some reason and bad-mouthed Oregon a lot. (Apparently he had a terrible time at a casino on the beach once and was painting the state with a broad brush.) He was locked in and really wanted to be a prosecutor. And I was coming to the conclusion that I probably didn't. Anyway, I was talking about all of the similarities between Jesus Christ and Jim Caviezel, who played Jesus Christ in the Passion of the Christ. At some point, he probably grew tired of me wasting his time, so he snapped, "Yeah, but Jim Caviezel's not dead." To which I replied, "And neither is Jesus." And everybody else laughed. And he moved away from my desk after that, and I don't think that I ever talked to that guy again. And I think that everyone in my area was very happy about that or maybe I was just projecting. In any instance, I agree with your third paragraph. I know Christian Scientists, who are not getting vaccinated. And I do not get it, but I believe that they have the right to choose whether they will be vaccinated or not. At the same time, I am keeping my children away from 'em, so......... Also, great scene to conclude your post. Ezekiel 25:17. Great stuff. |
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Post by irimi on Aug 18, 2021 6:08:16 GMT -8
Guess I have seen too many who have used their religion to be a-holes. Probably that is harder for a fellow believer to see, so I won’t expect you to fully understand that. You are correct that for a person who has already accepted that a man could turn water into wine and raise the dead, then it’s no leap to think that he can make bread bleed with his blood, though he has been dead for nearly 2000 years. I don’t understand why it is easier for Christians to believe that Jesus will reach down and personally protect them than to believe that the documented science behind the vaccine. Plus, we have tons of evidence of Jesus not protecting them…and only Jules witnessing Divine Intervention. You're second paragraph reminded me of a conversation with a guy that I worked with at Ventura County. He had a butt-rock haircut for some reason and bad-mouthed Oregon a lot. (Apparently he had a terrible time at a casino on the beach once and was painting the state with a broad brush.) He was locked in and really wanted to be a prosecutor. And I was coming to the conclusion that I probably didn't. Anyway, I was talking about all of the similarities between Jesus Christ and Jim Caviezel, who played Jesus Christ in the Passion of the Christ. At some point, he probably grew tired of me wasting his time, so he snapped, "Yeah, but Jim Caviezel's not dead." To which I replied, "And neither is Jesus." And everybody else laughed. And he moved away from my desk after that, and I don't think that I ever talked to that guy again. And I think that everyone in my area was very happy about that or maybe I was just projecting. In any instance, I agree with your third paragraph. I know Christian Scientists, who are not getting vaccinated. And I do not get it, but I believe that they have the right to choose whether they will be vaccinated or not. At the same time, I am keeping my children away from 'em, so......... Also, great scene to conclude your post. Ezekiel 25:17. Great stuff. I used to have a button that I made back in junior high that said Frodo Lives. Pretty sure some people moved away from me back then, too. |
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