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Post by shelby on Jun 27, 2021 7:41:46 GMT -8
Hopefully the idea of a starting lineup will be based on the competitors starters and Rueck, et als strategy to attack weaknesses and capitalize on opportunities ! That means a balanced attack and also playing the hot hands ( which we should have plenty of ) !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2021 8:58:27 GMT -8
I don't think it matters a great deal who starts, but I 100% agree with nwhoopfan , that KB is a far superior player than Mack. No ifs/ands/buts. Coaching staff has a plethora of BIGS, and rotation flexibility on 3/4/5 positions. Keeping Taylor out of foul trouble is paramount to OSU's success next year, and having KB in the lineup with Taylor to guard the opponents best post player is something OSU didn't have last season. Also, KB is a terrific rebounder. I have high hopes for Taya next season. She was such a great defender at the end of the season, and, her 3-point shot was much better at end of the season. I don't see Rueck taking minutes away from Taylor, KB, or Taya next season. The other BIGs will fill in behind these 3. Defensively, Brown is a superior shot blocker, rebounder, and defender of taller players. But offensively she: 1) Has no shooting touch. She does not have good hands. For those of you who expect her to improve on her near-worst shooting percentage of 36.7%, you're smoking hopium. Shooting requires a natural finesse that you either have or don't have, and she's had years of practice to prove that she doesn't have it. Her 3-pt percentage was 25%. Opposing teams invited her to take that 3 point shot. Their coaches, I'm sure, told the players to leave her wide open. Kennedy eventually realized she couldn't shoot from there, and she would stand there with no one guarding her and refrain from shooting that wide open shot, looking for someone to pass the ball to. She has very little touch close to the basket, too. We frequently even saw her missing easy shots near the basket. Compare to Ellie: Ellie has excellent hands for catching a pass on the move, and she is a good 3-pt shooter. 2) Is not quick on her feet. Ellie can scoot around a screen, lose her defender, and catch a pass on the run for a layup. Kennedy does not have her speed or foot quickness. With Kennedy in there, there are plays that you cannot run due to her lack of mobility. 3) Cannot attack the basket off the dribble the way Ellie can. She lacks Ellie's ball-handling skills. 4) Wants to play the 3 spot. This has been in her head since Day 1. She will probably not be happy if she's asked to play her more natural position close to the bucket. IF she is willing to play inside, then she can be useful on offense, but we'll have to see if she has enough sense to concede that the 3 is not her natural position. I will agree that, defensively, if she is playing inside instead of trying to chase quick guards and risking another ACL injury, then she should give the team a huge lift against South Carolina's post or Oregon's post. Against an elite team's post, her interior defense may be critical. And offensively, she could be better for us than Ellie IF she is willing to play closer to the basket, or even play the post position. My concern is that she still tries to shoot 3's and chase little guards full-court on defense.
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Post by ricke71 on Jun 27, 2021 10:26:16 GMT -8
I don't think it matters a great deal who starts, but I 100% agree with nwhoopfan , that KB is a far superior player than Mack. No ifs/ands/buts. Coaching staff has a plethora of BIGS, and rotation flexibility on 3/4/5 positions. Keeping Taylor out of foul trouble is paramount to OSU's success next year, and having KB in the lineup with Taylor to guard the opponents best post player is something OSU didn't have last season. Also, KB is a terrific rebounder. I have high hopes for Taya next season. She was such a great defender at the end of the season, and, her 3-point shot was much better at end of the season. I don't see Rueck taking minutes away from Taylor, KB, or Taya next season. The other BIGs will fill in behind these 3. Defensively, Brown is a superior shot blocker, rebounder, and defender of taller players. But offensively she: 1) Has no shooting touch. She does not have good hands. For those of you who expect her to improve on her near-worst shooting percentage of 36.7%, you're smoking hopium. Shooting requires a natural finesse that you either have or don't have, and she's had years of practice to prove that she doesn't have it. Her 3-pt percentage was 25%. Opposing teams invited her to take that 3 point shot. Their coaches, I'm sure, told the players to leave her wide open. Kennedy eventually realized she couldn't shoot from there, and she would stand there with no one guarding her and refrain from shooting that wide open shot, looking for someone to pass the ball to. She has very little touch close to the basket, too. We frequently even saw her missing easy shots near the basket. Compare to Ellie: Ellie has excellent hands for catching a pass on the move, and she is a good 3-pt shooter. 2) Is not quick on her feet. Ellie can scoot around a screen, lose her defender, and catch a pass on the run for a layup. Kennedy does not have her speed or foot quickness. With Kennedy in there, there are plays that you cannot run due to her lack of mobility. 3) Cannot attack the basket off the dribble the way Ellie can. She lacks Ellie's ball-handling skills. 4) Wants to play the 3 spot. This has been in her head since Day 1. She will probably not be happy if she's asked to play her more natural position close to the bucket. IF she is willing to play inside, then she can be useful on offense, but we'll have to see if she has enough sense to concede that the 3 is not her natural position. I will agree that, defensively, if she is playing inside instead of trying to chase quick guards and risking another ACL injury, then she should give the team a huge lift against South Carolina's post or Oregon's post. Against an elite team's post, her interior defense may be critical. And offensively, she could be better for us than Ellie IF she is willing to play closer to the basket, or even play the post position. My concern is that she still tries to shoot 3's and chase little guards full-court on defense. I'm still holding out the hope that KB ups her 3-pt game, at least to the level that it can't be ignored by defenses. True, in 23 games during her freshman year, she was not good: 25% for the season (and 20% in PAC 12). Still in HS as a senior she was a 39% 3-pt shooter. Apples to Oranges - I know !!
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Post by grayman on Jun 27, 2021 12:53:25 GMT -8
IMO, KB is the No. 1 key for the Beavers to return to a high level in the near future. By high level, I mean once again becoming a serious threat to win the Pac-12 and make a deep run in the NCAA Tournament. Obviously there are a bunch of other factors that need to fall in place as well, but the mere addition of KB on the floor will make the team much tougher for opponents. Her potential impact is huge. I think SR will waste little time in going back to the Taylor/Kennedy duo on the front line. It will be interesting to see how Taya and Ellie are utilized and there's always a three-guard lineup possibility as well. As for Ellie, I like her game. But unless she suddenly becomes a go-to scorer for the team, she's most likely going to be more of a role player who will bring experience, leadership and consistency to the table, and that's very important.
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Post by Werebeaver on Jun 27, 2021 13:15:42 GMT -8
I don't think it matters a great deal who starts, but I 100% agree with nwhoopfan , that KB is a far superior player than Mack. No ifs/ands/buts. Coaching staff has a plethora of BIGS, and rotation flexibility on 3/4/5 positions. Keeping Taylor out of foul trouble is paramount to OSU's success next year, and having KB in the lineup with Taylor to guard the opponents best post player is something OSU didn't have last season. Also, KB is a terrific rebounder. I have high hopes for Taya next season. She was such a great defender at the end of the season, and, her 3-point shot was much better at end of the season. I don't see Rueck taking minutes away from Taylor, KB, or Taya next season. The other BIGs will fill in behind these 3. Defensively, Brown is a superior shot blocker, rebounder, and defender of taller players. But offensively she: 1) Has no shooting touch. She does not have good hands. For those of you who expect her to improve on her near-worst shooting percentage of 36.7%, you're smoking hopium. Shooting requires a natural finesse that you either have or don't have, and she's had years of practice to prove that she doesn't have it. Her 3-pt percentage was 25%. Opposing teams invited her to take that 3 point shot. Their coaches, I'm sure, told the players to leave her wide open. Kennedy eventually realized she couldn't shoot from there, and she would stand there with no one guarding her and refrain from shooting that wide open shot, looking for someone to pass the ball to. She has very little touch close to the basket, too. We frequently even saw her missing easy shots near the basket. Compare to Ellie: Ellie has excellent hands for catching a pass on the move, and she is a good 3-pt shooter. 2) Is not quick on her feet. Ellie can scoot around a screen, lose her defender, and catch a pass on the run for a layup. Kennedy does not have her speed or foot quickness. With Kennedy in there, there are plays that you cannot run due to her lack of mobility. 3) Cannot attack the basket off the dribble the way Ellie can. She lacks Ellie's ball-handling skills. 4) Wants to play the 3 spot. This has been in her head since Day 1. She will probably not be happy if she's asked to play her more natural position close to the bucket. IF she is willing to play inside, then she can be useful on offense, but we'll have to see if she has enough sense to concede that the 3 is not her natural position. I will agree that, defensively, if she is playing inside instead of trying to chase quick guards and risking another ACL injury, then she should give the team a huge lift against South Carolina's post or Oregon's post. Against an elite team's post, her interior defense may be critical. And offensively, she could be better for us than Ellie IF she is willing to play closer to the basket, or even play the post position. My concern is that she still tries to shoot 3's and chase little guards full-court on defense. I like Ellie too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2021 14:32:28 GMT -8
True, in 23 games during her freshman year, she was not good: 25% for the season (and 20% in PAC 12). Still in HS as a senior she was a 39% 3-pt shooter. Apples to Oranges - I know !! The high school 3-pt line is closer than last season's women's college 3-pt line. And with the 3-pt line moved out, it's going to make it that much harder to hit 3-pt shots. Players will have to recalibrate. That's going to bring the percentages down for most players. Except maybe not for Talia.... HS: 19.75' Women 2020: 20.75' Women 2021: 22' 1.75" = 6.75 meters NBA: 23.75'
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Post by lotrader on Jun 27, 2021 18:08:27 GMT -8
Defensively, Brown is a superior shot blocker, rebounder, and defender of taller players. But offensively she: 1) Has no shooting touch. She does not have good hands. For those of you who expect her to improve on her near-worst shooting percentage of 36.7%, you're smoking hopium. Shooting requires a natural finesse that you either have or don't have, and she's had years of practice to prove that she doesn't have it. Her 3-pt percentage was 25%. Opposing teams invited her to take that 3 point shot. Their coaches, I'm sure, told the players to leave her wide open. Kennedy eventually realized she couldn't shoot from there, and she would stand there with no one guarding her and refrain from shooting that wide open shot, looking for someone to pass the ball to. She has very little touch close to the basket, too. We frequently even saw her missing easy shots near the basket. Compare to Ellie: Ellie has excellent hands for catching a pass on the move, and she is a good 3-pt shooter. 2) Is not quick on her feet. Ellie can scoot around a screen, lose her defender, and catch a pass on the run for a layup. Kennedy does not have her speed or foot quickness. With Kennedy in there, there are plays that you cannot run due to her lack of mobility. 3) Cannot attack the basket off the dribble the way Ellie can. She lacks Ellie's ball-handling skills. 4) Wants to play the 3 spot. This has been in her head since Day 1. She will probably not be happy if she's asked to play her more natural position close to the bucket. IF she is willing to play inside, then she can be useful on offense, but we'll have to see if she has enough sense to concede that the 3 is not her natural position. I will agree that, defensively, if she is playing inside instead of trying to chase quick guards and risking another ACL injury, then she should give the team a huge lift against South Carolina's post or Oregon's post. Against an elite team's post, her interior defense may be critical. And offensively, she could be better for us than Ellie IF she is willing to play closer to the basket, or even play the post position. My concern is that she still tries to shoot 3's and chase little guards full-court on defense. I'm still holding out the hope that KB ups her 3-pt game, at least to the level that it can't be ignored by defenses. True, in 23 games during her freshman year, she was not good: 25% for the season (and 20% in PAC 12). Still in HS as a senior she was a 39% 3-pt shooter. Apples to Oranges - I know !! The good news is the coaches have options. But I don't see Mack's skill set at the level you do, but, no worries, with one-year under her belt in the PAC-12, Ellie mack will contribute even more next season for sure. If I had to keep one and lose the other, I would keep KB. Again, glad we have both going into next season. With KB on the floor, Mack will hopefully get some more open looks.
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Post by damnstraight on Jun 27, 2021 18:15:15 GMT -8
And in other news, Endyia Rogers commits to.....You Guessed it.........Makes me sick!
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Post by beaveragain on Jun 27, 2021 21:30:55 GMT -8
I don't think it matters a great deal who starts, but I 100% agree with nwhoopfan , that KB is a far superior player than Mack. No ifs/ands/buts. Coaching staff has a plethora of BIGS, and rotation flexibility on 3/4/5 positions. Keeping Taylor out of foul trouble is paramount to OSU's success next year, and having KB in the lineup with Taylor to guard the opponents best post player is something OSU didn't have last season. Also, KB is a terrific rebounder. I have high hopes for Taya next season. She was such a great defender at the end of the season, and, her 3-point shot was much better at end of the season. I don't see Rueck taking minutes away from Taylor, KB, or Taya next season. The other BIGs will fill in behind these 3. Defensively, Brown is a superior shot blocker, rebounder, and defender of taller players. But offensively she: 1) Has no shooting touch. She does not have good hands. For those of you who expect her to improve on her near-worst shooting percentage of 36.7%, you're smoking hopium. Shooting requires a natural finesse that you either have or don't have, and she's had years of practice to prove that she doesn't have it. Her 3-pt percentage was 25%. Opposing teams invited her to take that 3 point shot. Their coaches, I'm sure, told the players to leave her wide open. Kennedy eventually realized she couldn't shoot from there, and she would stand there with no one guarding her and refrain from shooting that wide open shot, looking for someone to pass the ball to. She has very little touch close to the basket, too. We frequently even saw her missing easy shots near the basket. Compare to Ellie: Ellie has excellent hands for catching a pass on the move, and she is a good 3-pt shooter. 2) Is not quick on her feet. Ellie can scoot around a screen, lose her defender, and catch a pass on the run for a layup. Kennedy does not have her speed or foot quickness. With Kennedy in there, there are plays that you cannot run due to her lack of mobility. 3) Cannot attack the basket off the dribble the way Ellie can. She lacks Ellie's ball-handling skills. 4) Wants to play the 3 spot. This has been in her head since Day 1. She will probably not be happy if she's asked to play her more natural position close to the bucket. IF she is willing to play inside, then she can be useful on offense, but we'll have to see if she has enough sense to concede that the 3 is not her natural position. I will agree that, defensively, if she is playing inside instead of trying to chase quick guards and risking another ACL injury, then she should give the team a huge lift against South Carolina's post or Oregon's post. Against an elite team's post, her interior defense may be critical. And offensively, she could be better for us than Ellie IF she is willing to play closer to the basket, or even play the post position. My concern is that she still tries to shoot 3's and chase little guards full-court on defense. On Brown not having "good hands" because she shot 25% from the 3. Taya shot 29% from the 3 in 2018-2019 and 39% in 2020-2021. I don't think it's just hopium to think that something similar could happen for Brown. In shoot arounds Brown did just fine from the 3, it got into her mind and she couldn't hit during games. Let's hope she can get it under control and she's good to go this next season. I've seen no indication that Brown wants to play the 3 and her first season she played the 4. I would be very surprised if she didn't start the season as Taya's backup and Jones backup in defensive situations. I think AJ will be Ellie's Number 2 at the 3, although if Emily is in good shape it might be her.
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Post by jimbob on Jun 27, 2021 22:13:04 GMT -8
I don't think it matters a great deal who starts, but I 100% agree with nwhoopfan , that KB is a far superior player than Mack. No ifs/ands/buts. Coaching staff has a plethora of BIGS, and rotation flexibility on 3/4/5 positions. Keeping Taylor out of foul trouble is paramount to OSU's success next year, and having KB in the lineup with Taylor to guard the opponents best post player is something OSU didn't have last season. Also, KB is a terrific rebounder. I have high hopes for Taya next season. She was such a great defender at the end of the season, and, her 3-point shot was much better at end of the season. I don't see Rueck taking minutes away from Taylor, KB, or Taya next season. The other BIGs will fill in behind these 3. Defensively, Brown is a superior shot blocker, rebounder, and defender of taller players. But offensively she: 1) Has no shooting touch. She does not have good hands. For those of you who expect her to improve on her near-worst shooting percentage of 36.7%, you're smoking hopium. Shooting requires a natural finesse that you either have or don't have, and she's had years of practice to prove that she doesn't have it. Her 3-pt percentage was 25%. Opposing teams invited her to take that 3 point shot. Their coaches, I'm sure, told the players to leave her wide open. Kennedy eventually realized she couldn't shoot from there, and she would stand there with no one guarding her and refrain from shooting that wide open shot, looking for someone to pass the ball to. She has very little touch close to the basket, too. We frequently even saw her missing easy shots near the basket. Compare to Ellie: Ellie has excellent hands for catching a pass on the move, and she is a good 3-pt shooter. 2) Is not quick on her feet. Ellie can scoot around a screen, lose her defender, and catch a pass on the run for a layup. Kennedy does not have her speed or foot quickness. With Kennedy in there, there are plays that you cannot run due to her lack of mobility. 3) Cannot attack the basket off the dribble the way Ellie can. She lacks Ellie's ball-handling skills. 4) Wants to play the 3 spot. This has been in her head since Day 1. She will probably not be happy if she's asked to play her more natural position close to the bucket. IF she is willing to play inside, then she can be useful on offense, but we'll have to see if she has enough sense to concede that the 3 is not her natural position. I will agree that, defensively, if she is playing inside instead of trying to chase quick guards and risking another ACL injury, then she should give the team a huge lift against South Carolina's post or Oregon's post. Against an elite team's post, her interior defense may be critical. And offensively, she could be better for us than Ellie IF she is willing to play closer to the basket, or even play the post position. My concern is that she still tries to shoot 3's and chase little guards full-court on defense. I totally agree with your assessment of KB's and Ellie's skills thickhead and I made a similar comment about KB back in a January thread when someone brought up KB....Here is what I wrote: "And a 2nd note of caution about KB....She was solid defensively and a good rebounder and we could certainly use alot more of that!....However despite being 6'6"tall she likes to play away from the basket on offense and shoot the 3.....but unfortunately she is a poor shooter....37% FG, and only 25% 3pt, and only 58% FT's...I would like to see her concentrate more on those 8-12 ft jumpers closer to the hoop (like Marie did when she was here)....(and Like Maurice Lucas used to do for the Blazers).....KB @ 6'6" could shoot that shot over anyone and get much better results than those 15-25 ft jumpers she was shooting last year!.....If KB ever wants to be a pro or even an elite college player this is the part of her game she needs to develop......but I'm afraid this won't happen and its just educated wishful thinking on my part!"
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Post by finleybandbeav on Jun 28, 2021 7:00:54 GMT -8
I'm having a hard time seeing EM as a better player than KB. They may both be bigs, but their games are far different. IMHO they should both get plenty of playing time, depending on the situation.
Comparing freshman KB (who was injured before season's end) and grad-transfer veteran EM has limited value. It overlooks player development - I mean, look at Mik 1.0 compared to Mik 4.0. Or how about our guard from Milwaukee, OR, who kept bringing it and bringing it, eventually turning into a star player with a chance to crack into the WNBA?
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Post by shelby on Jun 28, 2021 8:35:06 GMT -8
I think we have seen growth for each position player, every year since Coach Rueck has been here. The only exceptions, I can think of, are when the player is coming back from a long term rehab , post injury. That is a difficult situation for the athlete because they have gone from feeling invincible to some level of trepidation in full use of their basketball skills ! Going full speed is now done in a manner that is also factoring in wanting to avoid another injury ! The next question, for me, is how the new coaches work with the bigs and the guards. There will be a learning and trust curve based on returnee’s, newcomers, and transfers ! We, obviously should be good to go offensively and defensively we have great skill and size / length - but, can we contest the easy three’s and the open lanes to the hoop ? So,1 - growth, 2- coaching, 3- defensive focus
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