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Post by kvgeorge on Dec 18, 2020 14:51:28 GMT -8
To change or not to change? Is it even a question worth asking?
The PAC is in a shambles in all revenue sports. I'm not even sure we merit being considered a Power 5 Conference. Until the Presidents deal with Conference Leadership issues, attracting a bright up and coming coach or a ready assistant is much more difficult. Why as a coach move to the Conference of Losers?
Tinkle suits the needs of the University and the Athletic Department at this time. He's the poster child of mediocrity in an irrelevant league. I suspect he's got another year maybe two. We'll see.
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Post by nabeav on Dec 18, 2020 15:21:19 GMT -8
Look I'm all for making a change if it makes sense. It would make sense to me if we were some combination of the following - Non Competitive
- Large number of players leaving the program
- The coach was texting journalists dragging literally everyone
- Financially it made sense
- You had a specific guy in mind that would take the job
I don't have some candle burning in the window for Wayne. I think we're competitive in the conference, he's got several years left on his deal which we'd have to buy out, and nobody to this point has mentioned a coach that could replace him that a) is virtually guaranteed to improve our current position or b) is guaranteed to energize the fan base.
If you want to say it's "loser mentality" to be fiscally responsible, or "accepting mediocrity" to not want to fire the most successful coach we've had in 30 years or whatever, I'm not sure I have a response other than I definitely don't want to sit next to you at a game.
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Post by nabeav on Dec 18, 2020 15:34:29 GMT -8
Look I'm all for making a change if it makes sense. It would make sense to me if we were some combination of the following - Non Competitive
- Large number of players leaving the program
- The coach was texting journalists dragging literally everyone
- Financially it made sense
- You had a specific guy in mind that would take the job
I don't have some candle burning in the window for Wayne. I think we're competitive in the conference, he's got several years left on his deal which we'd have to buy out, and nobody to this point has mentioned a coach that could replace him that a) is virtually guaranteed to improve our current position or b) is guaranteed to energize the fan base.
If you want to say it's "loser mentality" to be fiscally responsible, or "accepting mediocrity" to not think that firing the most successful coach we've had in 30 years or whatever without a plan to replace him, I'm not sure I have a response other than I definitely don't want to sit next to you at a game.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 18, 2020 16:03:40 GMT -8
.....which is the best conference winning percentage at Oregon State by a head coach since Jim Anderson, who was pretty much all downhill after his 22-7 first season in which he inherited the best player in the nation. Again, why should the best conference record and the only NCAA tournament berth in the past 30 years warrant a pink slip? I'm tired of saying it, but I'll say it again.....who are you going to get? We've tried assistants at successful programs (Anderson, John), we've tried young up and coming coaches (McKay, Robinson). We've tried established mid major coaches with track records of success (Payne, Tinkle). Who are you getting and how do you afford him......actually maybe that's it - we have tried all sorts of MEN. Maybe we need to break ground and offer the job to Becky Hammon or Lindsay Gottlieb or Jenny Boucek. First, I want to be clear that I'm not a fan of mid-season changes (assuming not 'for cause' type issues). So this would be a change based on the whole body of work. WT gets this team to finish in the upper half of the conference, I'm sure he's safe. It it plays out the way it's trending (likely bottom 3), we should make a change, IMO. Were we not in "Who are you gonna get" situations with the JS or Rueck hires? The reason for the change in my view is that we've seen Tinkle's ceiling, and it's not enough to a) justify his salary, and b) get the program into good money-making territory, which we desperately need. It makes no sense to me to keep a coach that is able to field consistent mediocrity. It's definitely better than being terrible, but in terms of the bottom line, not a whole lot. The biggest issue I have is that WT's tenure had been building towards the last two years, where where we had a lot of semi-talented upperclassman that can make a run against more talented, less experienced peers in the league. That will very likely be our ongoing situation at best, and seemed to be the pattern Riley made work at OSU. However, if the ceiling of that 4-5 year progression is an NIT berth at best, it's simply not enough to get anybody excited. Yes, I'm not giving him credit here for the one tourney berth during his tenure, but without Robinson offering GPII (and of course credit to WT for convincing him to keep committed), that tourney berth absolutely doesn't happen. That means, I don't see evidence he is able to land this type of player that can overcome what I see as inferior coaching. So from my perspective, let this season play out, and meanwhile start the search and line up the fundraising. Assuming things play out the way it's trending, make the move in March. It may indeed be rinse-and-repeat with the next coach, but there's a big difference between settling for middling vs. trying to get better at risk of being worse. The former is a sure way to really put the nail in the coffin of apathy that many of us fans are in. I love the GPII was the only player that led the team to the tourney mantra. However, people forget that our #2-4 scorers that year were all freshman recruited by Tinkle. Eubanks, Tinkle & Thompson. You could just as easily say that that team doesn’t make the tourney without his recruits. |
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Post by nabeav on Dec 18, 2020 16:40:01 GMT -8
I think the counterpoint to that is that they went 5-27 the next season without GPII and failed to make the NIT even with any combination of the players you mentioned.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 18, 2020 16:55:45 GMT -8
I think the counterpoint to that is that they went 5-27 the next season without GPII and failed to make the NIT even with any combination of the players you mentioned. They also had several injuries including Tinkle, their best player. |
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 18, 2020 18:14:33 GMT -8
To change or not to change? Is it even a question worth asking? The PAC is in a shambles in all revenue sports. I'm not even sure we merit being considered a Power 5 Conference. Until the Presidents deal with Conference Leadership issues, attracting a bright up and coming coach or a ready assistant is much more difficult. Why as a coach move to the Conference of Losers? Tinkle suits the needs of the University and the Athletic Department at this time. He's the poster child of mediocrity in an irrelevant league. I suspect he's got another year maybe two. We'll see. Classic line! “He's the poster child of mediocrity in an irrelevant league.” |
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 18, 2020 22:53:46 GMT -8
To change or not to change? Is it even a question worth asking? The PAC is in a shambles in all revenue sports. I'm not even sure we merit being considered a Power 5 Conference. Until the Presidents deal with Conference Leadership issues, attracting a bright up and coming coach or a ready assistant is much more difficult. Why as a coach move to the Conference of Losers? Tinkle suits the needs of the University and the Athletic Department at this time. He's the poster child of mediocrity in an irrelevant league. I suspect he's got another year maybe two. We'll see. Classic line! “He's the poster child of mediocrity in an irrelevant league.” You've got to look at it this way. We're doing our part to keep up with the Jones in the conference.
Lifetime contract for Wayne!
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Post by beaverstever on Dec 19, 2020 17:09:33 GMT -8
First, I want to be clear that I'm not a fan of mid-season changes (assuming not 'for cause' type issues). So this would be a change based on the whole body of work. WT gets this team to finish in the upper half of the conference, I'm sure he's safe. It it plays out the way it's trending (likely bottom 3), we should make a change, IMO. Were we not in "Who are you gonna get" situations with the JS or Rueck hires? The reason for the change in my view is that we've seen Tinkle's ceiling, and it's not enough to a) justify his salary, and b) get the program into good money-making territory, which we desperately need. It makes no sense to me to keep a coach that is able to field consistent mediocrity. It's definitely better than being terrible, but in terms of the bottom line, not a whole lot. The biggest issue I have is that WT's tenure had been building towards the last two years, where where we had a lot of semi-talented upperclassman that can make a run against more talented, less experienced peers in the league. That will very likely be our ongoing situation at best, and seemed to be the pattern Riley made work at OSU. However, if the ceiling of that 4-5 year progression is an NIT berth at best, it's simply not enough to get anybody excited. Yes, I'm not giving him credit here for the one tourney berth during his tenure, but without Robinson offering GPII (and of course credit to WT for convincing him to keep committed), that tourney berth absolutely doesn't happen. That means, I don't see evidence he is able to land this type of player that can overcome what I see as inferior coaching. So from my perspective, let this season play out, and meanwhile start the search and line up the fundraising. Assuming things play out the way it's trending, make the move in March. It may indeed be rinse-and-repeat with the next coach, but there's a big difference between settling for middling vs. trying to get better at risk of being worse. The former is a sure way to really put the nail in the coffin of apathy that many of us fans are in. I love the GPII was the only player that led the team to the tourney mantra. However, people forget that our #2-4 scorers that year were all freshman recruited by Tinkle. Eubanks, Tinkle & Thompson. You could just as easily say that that team doesn’t make the tourney without his recruits. For sure, they don't make the tourney without WT's recruits. However, it's seems pretty obvious that GPII was the player that put them over the top, quarterbacking their defense that made them just good enough. Without GPII, these same kids - as upperclassmen - didn't go anywhere. My point is, because WT was not responsible for identifying and bringing in GPII, in my view we have no evidence to date that he is able to recruit kids that can put an OSU team over the hump and into the tourney. |
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Post by korculabeav on Dec 20, 2020 13:04:18 GMT -8
We won people. Let’s take a pause on coaching change talk until we see more.
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Post by beaverinohio on Dec 20, 2020 13:28:14 GMT -8
We won people. Let’s take a pause on coaching change talk until we see more. if a win over UTSA is the deciding factor in whether there should be talk about getting a new coach, then this is going to be a long season. And, yes, I know finances will likely be the real deciding factor and WT is probably safe. |
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Post by fridaynightlights on Dec 20, 2020 15:21:03 GMT -8
In all probability WT will be the coach again next season, at least partly due to the current financial situation. The problem is that next years roster with the loss of ET, will most likely be less talented then this years. WT and his staff have struggled to recruit "difference makers" over the years. The program is trending down. IMO it is not a question of if WT will be fired but when. Sooner or later we will have to take our medicine...
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Post by babeav on Dec 20, 2020 20:03:25 GMT -8
In all probability WT will be the coach again next season, at least partly due to the current financial situation. The problem is that next years roster with the loss of ET, will most likely be less talented then this years. WT and his staff have struggled to recruit "difference makers" over the years. The program is trending down. IMO it is not a question of if WT will be fired but when. Sooner or later we will have to take our medicine... 2021 might get a lot brighter with Ethan leaving, gone will be the ball dominant dribbling machine he is....at least Wayne will need to designate a PG..... |
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