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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 17, 2020 15:48:40 GMT -8
Not to be outdone by your list of coaches. Wayne tinkle is 42-66 in the pac12. That should have gotten him a pink slip 9 months ago. But some seem to think he is going to turn it around. He's not. The guy gets paid pretty well for a bad job. I just wish people would quit defending him Not defending his overall Pac-12 record or the start to this season, but I'm not sure how you justify firing him after either of the last two seasons. Back to back 18-13 records, a 4th place conference finish two seasons ago and ended last season on a three game winning streak before the season was cut short. For all we know with the momentum that was being built last season, that team could've gone on to make some more noise and was also likely a lock for at least the NIT even without winning their game against oregon. Both those teams were frustrating at times and probably should've won more games than they did, but were still far better than probably 95% of MBB teams in the last 30 years. Now, if this season goes the way of the 2016-17 season (5-27, 1-17), then that's a completely different story and I would agree with you. There's a lot of season left however, and as stated before due to the AD budget cuts it's highly unlikely any change happens after this season anyway. Hopefully this season gets turned around and we don't even need to worry about that, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like anything can change even if we want/need it to.
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Post by ochobeavo on Dec 17, 2020 16:08:01 GMT -8
Not to be outdone by your list of coaches. Wayne tinkle is 42-66 in the pac12. That should have gotten him a pink slip 9 months ago. But some seem to think he is going to turn it around. He's not. The guy gets paid pretty well for a bad job. I just wish people would quit defending him Not defending his overall Pac-12 record or the start to this season, but I'm not sure how you justify firing him after either of the last two seasons. Back to back 18-13 records, a 4th place conference finish two seasons ago and ended last season on a three game winning streak before the season was cut short. For all we know with the momentum that was being built last season, that team could've gone on to make some more noise and was also likely a lock for at least the NIT even without winning their game against oregon. Both those teams were frustrating at times and probably should've won more games than they did, but were still far better than probably 95% of MBB teams in the last 30 years. Now, if this season goes the way of the 2016-17 season (5-27, 1-17), then that's a completely different story and I would agree with you. There's a lot of season left however, and as stated before due to the AD budget cuts it's highly unlikely any change happens after this season anyway. Hopefully this season gets turned around and we don't even need to worry about that, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like anything can change even if we want/need it to. Yeah, agree completely... I'm not a Tinkle fan at all but if you look at the body of work it's perfectly mediocre-ish and not at all crossing over into hot seat material... 17-14, 19-13, 5-27, 16-16, 18-13, 18-13. And before I get killed for "accepting mediocrity" umm...no. Would absolutely love an upgrade, but who is it and how many bake sales and 50/50 raffles are needed to pony up the $$$ in a year where we are taking a financial beating in the AD?
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Post by babeav on Dec 17, 2020 16:19:38 GMT -8
Like Wayne or not, he’s not going anywhere this year or next unless he replicates that injury induced 5-27, 1-17 debacle.....
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Dec 17, 2020 16:20:47 GMT -8
Not defending his overall Pac-12 record or the start to this season, but I'm not sure how you justify firing him after either of the last two seasons. Back to back 18-13 records, a 4th place conference finish two seasons ago and ended last season on a three game winning streak before the season was cut short. For all we know with the momentum that was being built last season, that team could've gone on to make some more noise and was also likely a lock for at least the NIT even without winning their game against oregon. Both those teams were frustrating at times and probably should've won more games than they did, but were still far better than probably 95% of MBB teams in the last 30 years. Now, if this season goes the way of the 2016-17 season (5-27, 1-17), then that's a completely different story and I would agree with you. There's a lot of season left however, and as stated before due to the AD budget cuts it's highly unlikely any change happens after this season anyway. Hopefully this season gets turned around and we don't even need to worry about that, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like anything can change even if we want/need it to. Yeah, agree completely... I'm not a Tinkle fan at all but if you look at the body of work it's perfectly mediocre-ish and not at all crossing over into hot seat material... 17-14, 19-13, 5-27, 16-16, 18-13, 18-13. And before I get killed for "accepting mediocrity" umm...no. Would absolutely love an upgrade, but who is it and how many bake sales and 50/50 raffles are needed to pony up the $$$ in a year where we are taking a financial beating in the AD? My thoughts exactly. Discounting his 3rd season, WT teams have been frustrating, but have also been just good enough to not necessarily be calling for the axe. Maybe it would be easier if we just sucked but I think we would all rather see us be more competitive and frustrate us as fans than flat out suck most seasons.
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Post by OSUprof on Dec 17, 2020 18:50:20 GMT -8
Tinkle won 3 more conference games than Robinson over a six-year period to take the crown among coaches in the post-glory days era for OSU men's basketball. That comes out to exactly one-half more conference win per season for Tinkle over Robinson. Yes, he's the best.
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 17, 2020 20:21:11 GMT -8
Not to be outdone by your list of coaches. Wayne tinkle is 42-66 in the pac12. That should have gotten him a pink slip 9 months ago. But some seem to think he is going to turn it around. He's not. The guy gets paid pretty well for a bad job. I just wish people would quit defending him .....which is the best conference winning percentage at Oregon State by a head coach since Jim Anderson, who was pretty much all downhill after his 22-7 first season in which he inherited the best player in the nation. Again, why should the best conference record and the only NCAA tournament berth in the past 30 years warrant a pink slip? I'm tired of saying it, but I'll say it again.....who are you going to get? We've tried assistants at successful programs (Anderson, John), we've tried young up and coming coaches (McKay, Robinson). We've tried established mid major coaches with track records of success (Payne, Tinkle). Who are you getting and how do you afford him......actually maybe that's it - we have tried all sorts of MEN. Maybe we need to break ground and offer the job to Becky Hammon or Lindsay Gottlieb or Jenny Boucek. I think that’s a loser mentality. Winners pick the right coaches. Winners don’t stand for less than mediocrity because they’re afraid. I don’t know the answer, but if it was my job to know the answer I would know it.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 17, 2020 20:24:16 GMT -8
.....which is the best conference winning percentage at Oregon State by a head coach since Jim Anderson, who was pretty much all downhill after his 22-7 first season in which he inherited the best player in the nation. Again, why should the best conference record and the only NCAA tournament berth in the past 30 years warrant a pink slip? I'm tired of saying it, but I'll say it again.....who are you going to get? We've tried assistants at successful programs (Anderson, John), we've tried young up and coming coaches (McKay, Robinson). We've tried established mid major coaches with track records of success (Payne, Tinkle). Who are you getting and how do you afford him......actually maybe that's it - we have tried all sorts of MEN. Maybe we need to break ground and offer the job to Becky Hammon or Lindsay Gottlieb or Jenny Boucek. I think that’s a loser mentality. Winners pick the right coaches. Winners don’t stand for less than mediocrity because they’re afraid. I don’t know the answer, but if it was my job to know the answer I would know it. Well, the person that was supposed to know the answer hasn’t figured it out in 30 years, so don’t hold your breath.
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 17, 2020 20:26:18 GMT -8
I think that’s a loser mentality. Winners pick the right coaches. Winners don’t stand for less than mediocrity because they’re afraid. I don’t know the answer, but if it was my job to know the answer I would know it. Well, the person that was supposed to know the answer hasn’t figured it out in 30 years, so don’t hold your breath. Wrong people. Other schools all over the country seem to be able to figure it out. Oh, I’m not holding my breath.
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Post by nabeav on Dec 18, 2020 8:22:48 GMT -8
You know, about half of the current AP top 25 were in the top 25 when Wayne Tinkle was hired seven years ago, so it seems like most of the teams that have "figured it out" have had it "figured out" for a long time.
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Post by tnarg33 on Dec 18, 2020 9:33:27 GMT -8
Wow, so the commenters over the last few years predicted that we’d be 3-3 this year and that they would consider that a well coached WT team? I didn’t know we had posters that owned Deloreans. Did they also predict COVID? No those commenters were happy with a 500 team in years past. So obviously they'd be more than ecstatic today. If you are satisfied with mediocrity or worse then that's what you generally end up with. 1. Saying Wayne is as good as anything we have had isn't a support of Wayne Tinkle. It is the realization that over the last 30 years he is the best we've been able to do. I would love to have a more successful basketball team, but the current team is the best it's been in basically my entire life. 2. I hate the accepting mediocrity argument on this board and this topic. Ok great you don't accept mediocrity and apparently I do. Guess what, our teams have the same record so what does all your not accepting mediocrity do for you? Nothing. Oregon State basketball for 30 straight years has been mediocre or worse. Coaching changes, facilities upgrades, accepting or not accepting mediocrity has not changed that. In fact the only thing that has worked for us is to have a player named Gary Payton on our team. Regardless of coach or anything else we need to have a transcendent player if we are going to have any success. One transcendent player needs to turn into two and then that needs to turn into another transcendent player 2 years later.
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Post by zeroposter on Dec 18, 2020 9:51:28 GMT -8
I am not anti-Wayne. At the same time, this will be a 4 or 5 win season. I also don't see a player on the team who can change the direction for next season.
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Post by babeav on Dec 18, 2020 11:17:43 GMT -8
4 or 5 win team......pandemic/Trump loss got you down? They’re at 3 now and I’m pretty sure they get to at least 6.
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Post by spudbeaver on Dec 18, 2020 11:21:08 GMT -8
4 or 5 win team......pandemic/Trump loss got you down? They’re at 3 now and I’m pretty sure they get to at least 6. Yayyyy Team!!! Goooo Team!!!
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Post by zeroposter on Dec 18, 2020 11:41:07 GMT -8
4 or 5 win team......pandemic/Trump loss got you down? They’re at 3 now and I’m pretty sure they get to at least 6. Ron, GTH.
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Post by beaverstever on Dec 18, 2020 13:58:42 GMT -8
Not to be outdone by your list of coaches. Wayne tinkle is 42-66 in the pac12. That should have gotten him a pink slip 9 months ago. But some seem to think he is going to turn it around. He's not. The guy gets paid pretty well for a bad job. I just wish people would quit defending him .....which is the best conference winning percentage at Oregon State by a head coach since Jim Anderson, who was pretty much all downhill after his 22-7 first season in which he inherited the best player in the nation. Again, why should the best conference record and the only NCAA tournament berth in the past 30 years warrant a pink slip? I'm tired of saying it, but I'll say it again.....who are you going to get? We've tried assistants at successful programs (Anderson, John), we've tried young up and coming coaches (McKay, Robinson). We've tried established mid major coaches with track records of success (Payne, Tinkle). Who are you getting and how do you afford him......actually maybe that's it - we have tried all sorts of MEN. Maybe we need to break ground and offer the job to Becky Hammon or Lindsay Gottlieb or Jenny Boucek. First, I want to be clear that I'm not a fan of mid-season changes (assuming not 'for cause' type issues). So this would be a change based on the whole body of work. WT gets this team to finish in the upper half of the conference, I'm sure he's safe. It it plays out the way it's trending (likely bottom 3), we should make a change, IMO. Were we not in "Who are you gonna get" situations with the JS or Rueck hires? The reason for the change in my view is that we've seen Tinkle's ceiling, and it's not enough to a) justify his salary, and b) get the program into good money-making territory, which we desperately need. It makes no sense to me to keep a coach that is able to field consistent mediocrity. It's definitely better than being terrible, but in terms of the bottom line, not a whole lot. The biggest issue I have is that WT's tenure had been building towards the last two years, where where we had a lot of semi-talented upperclassman that can make a run against more talented, less experienced peers in the league. That will very likely be our ongoing situation at best, and seemed to be the pattern Riley made work at OSU. However, if the ceiling of that 4-5 year progression is an NIT berth at best, it's simply not enough to get anybody excited. Yes, I'm not giving him credit here for the one tourney berth during his tenure, but without Robinson offering GPII (and of course credit to WT for convincing him to keep committed), that tourney berth absolutely doesn't happen. That means, I don't see evidence he is able to land this type of player that can overcome what I see as inferior coaching. So from my perspective, let this season play out, and meanwhile start the search and line up the fundraising. Assuming things play out the way it's trending, make the move in March. It may indeed be rinse-and-repeat with the next coach, but there's a big difference between settling for middling vs. trying to get better at risk of being worse. The former is a sure way to really put the nail in the coffin of apathy that many of us fans are in.
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