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Wyoming
Dec 8, 2020 15:10:49 GMT -8
Post by spudbeaver on Dec 8, 2020 15:10:49 GMT -8
Meanwhile, the conference keeps hanging its hat on being the Conference of Champions, continuing to grab up titles sports that many major universities don't even compete in. It's become a joke when our conference rarely wins ones that are broadly competed for. In the last full year of NCAA competition (2018-19), the Pac-12 won NCAA titles in men's golf and men's swimming, and women's cross country, softball, swimming, tennis and volleyball. Almost every P5 university, and a large majority of all D1 universities, compete in all of these sports. The Pac-12 also won men's and women's water polo, men's and women's gymnastics, women's crew, and combined skiing, which are niche sports not sponsored by a wide range of universities. Contrary to your contention, 13 NCAA team championships in a single academic year certainly does make the Pac-12 the Conference of Champions. Factually correct. But let's see, here's what I know without looking it up: Last football Champion: LSU Last men's basketball Champion: Virginia Hmmm...that's about it. Men's Golf: No clue Men's Swimming: Nope. USC? Stanford? Women's Cross Country: Probably Oregon, but that's just a guess. Women's Softball: Zip. Washington? Women's Tennis: Maybe Stanford? Wild guess. Women's Volleyball: I'll guess UCLA? I like the powder blue. Men's & Women's Water Polo: Stanford always a safe guess. I know a guy who played there! Men's Gymnastics: I give. Women's Gymnastics: Utah? UCLA? Women's Crew: Washington seems logical, since it's on a lake. Skiing: Colorado or Utah? Maybe safe to say the Pac wins a lot of titles in sports that mainstream sports fans don't really care about.
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Post by Judge Smails on Dec 8, 2020 15:13:38 GMT -8
In the last full year of NCAA competition (2018-19), the Pac-12 won NCAA titles in men's golf and men's swimming, and women's cross country, softball, swimming, tennis and volleyball. Almost every P5 university, and a large majority of all D1 universities, compete in all of these sports. The Pac-12 also won men's and women's water polo, men's and women's gymnastics, women's crew, and combined skiing, which are niche sports not sponsored by a wide range of universities. Contrary to your contention, 13 NCAA team championships in a single academic year certainly does make the Pac-12 the Conference of Champions. Factually correct. But let's see, here's what I know without looking it up: Last football Champion: LSU Last men's basketball Champion: Virginia Hmmm...that's about it. Men's Golf: No clue Men's Swimming: Nope. USC? Stanford? Women's Cross Country: Probably Oregon, but that's just a guess. Women's Softball: Zip. Washington? Women's Tennis: Maybe Stanford? Wild guess. Women's Volleyball: I'll guess UCLA? I like the powder blue. Men's & Women's Water Polo: Stanford always a safe guess. I know a guy who played there! Men's Gymnastics: I give. Women's Gymnastics: Utah? UCLA? Women's Crew: Washington seems logical, since it's on a lake. Skiing: Colorado or Utah? Maybe safe to say the Pac wins a lot of titles in sports that mainstream sports fans don't really care about. You forgot Women's Acrobatics & Tumbling......uck powerhouse sport!
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Wyoming
Dec 8, 2020 15:27:46 GMT -8
Post by green85 on Dec 8, 2020 15:27:46 GMT -8
This is not meant as snark, but 2020 - 2021 looks like a repeat of so many recent Beaver Athletic Team seasons/scenarios: WBB and Baseball on board as established elite programs....FB and MBB repeat as struggling underdogs with (at best) perpetual (unrealized) potential, but no cigar...or even a cigarette?? Hard to understand why two major sports (WBB and Baseball) can consistently be anywhere between above average and outstanding, while two others continue to struggle. Is it the personalities of the respective coaches? Is it about $$ and facilities?? Is it about the "small town" Corvallis realities? Lastly, when will it end? Not sure I would call WBB or Baseball major sports when it comes to collegiate athletics. Both sports we consider major to us because we're good at them (elite at baseball other than last season), but on a national scale there just aren't that many people that care. There are only two real money makers at the collegiate level, MBB and Football. Comparing those two sports to any other program here is apples to oranges at best IMO.
I'd even argue that part of the reason we struggle in football and basketball is because we as a fan base, AD, university, etc. don't consider the two most prominent programs nationally important enough. We generally are content rooting for our smaller programs that are important in our local bubbles, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't help the two "major" programs. Whether it's right or wrong, eyeballs are on MBB and football, and we as a university and conference have fallen far down the pecking order in both because they simply mean less here than other parts of the country.
As a conference we don't have an NCAA championship that wasn't vacated in either MBB or Football this CENTURY. The last was the 1997 Arizona MBB team. For football, not since 1972!!! has there been an outright NCAA champion from the conference unless you count USC's vacated title in 2004. Then considering OSU doesn't have an outright conference title in either sport since 1990..... well yikes.
So to answer your question, I'm not sure it does end. We can continue to cycle coaches, players, ADs, etc... But until it actually matters to us as fans, as a conference, as an AD/university, it probably won't end and we'll have to be happy running a clean program and doing better off the field/court, celebrate mediocre seasons, and forget the atrocious ones. It's just the reality of major sports in the Pac-12 and at OSU.
Women's basketball perception is rising. Many collegiate fan bases are buying the game by attending games and watching on the tube. Many more women's BB games televised now - and that is because more people are watching. For any university, success in a televised sport will bring attention. Certainly a great or near great WBB program with fan support will bring positive attention to the school that can only enhance public perception of the athletics program. Baseball is very important to a large number of schools. High profile winning baseball teams bring a bunch of spring time attention to schools. A national title in baseball is quite difficult and should be celebrated as a major accomplishment. While the sport does not generate tons of revenue, a successful program will not drain an AD budget the same way less successful baseball programs do. A winning culture among the student-athletes can breed more success across sports. Players go to games in other sports and see what can be accomplished at their school. College Basketball is a sport that can LEAP from below average to winning. And then LEAP again to above average winning and winning in the tourney. Two great players on a team with good veterans can compete at a high level in basketball, whether it is Loyola of Chicago or San Diego State. Gonzaga has built a program over decades of improvement to the place that highly ranked international players are drawn to the school as a path to the NBA. Finally, Jonathan Smith IS building something in football now. The trajectory is such that an OSU fan could reasonably see the Beavers winning the North Division in the next 2 years.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 8, 2020 16:00:56 GMT -8
Factually correct. But let's see, here's what I know without looking it up: Last football Champion: LSU Last men's basketball Champion: Virginia Hmmm...that's about it. Men's Golf: No clue Men's Swimming: Nope. USC? Stanford? Women's Cross Country: Probably Oregon, but that's just a guess. Women's Softball: Zip. Washington? Women's Tennis: Maybe Stanford? Wild guess. Women's Volleyball: I'll guess UCLA? I like the powder blue. Men's & Women's Water Polo: Stanford always a safe guess. I know a guy who played there! Men's Gymnastics: I give. Women's Gymnastics: Utah? UCLA? Women's Crew: Washington seems logical, since it's on a lake. Skiing: Colorado or Utah? Maybe safe to say the Pac wins a lot of titles in sports that mainstream sports fans don't really care about. You forgot Women's Acrobatics & Tumbling......uck powerhouse sport! They will probably push to add a breakdancing team now that it's an Olympic sport.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Dec 8, 2020 17:18:55 GMT -8
Mainstream fans care about football, and men's basketball, to a much lesser extent. That's it. We at OSU love college baseball, but it doesn't merit a blip on the national consciousness. Same with women's basketball.
Maybe you don't know, or care, who won the NCAA titles in soccer, softball and volleyball, or swimming and cross country. But thousands and thousands of American athletes play those sports and their championships are just as legit, and just as hard to win, as one in football or men's basketball.
And the bigger point is, contrary to what a previous poster said, the Pac-12 is still the Conference of Champions and continues to win more titles than any other conference.
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Wyoming
Dec 8, 2020 17:44:34 GMT -8
Post by beaverstever on Dec 8, 2020 17:44:34 GMT -8
Mainstream fans care about football, and men's basketball, to a much lesser extent. That's it. We at OSU love college baseball, but it doesn't merit a blip on the national consciousness. Same with women's basketball. Maybe you don't know, or care, who won the NCAA titles in soccer, softball and volleyball, or swimming and cross country. But thousands and thousands of American athletes play those sports and their championships are just as legit, and just as hard to win, as one in football or men's basketball. And the bigger point is, contrary to what a previous poster said, the Pac-12 is still the Conference of Champions and continues to win more titles than any other conference. This feels like one of those 'technically correct' terms, but marketing it makes strange, and is appropriately ridiculed, IMO. Everybody knows the SEC is dominating football championships. Everybody knows the ACC is dominating men's basketball championships. So without all this detail about what sports the Pac-12 is winning championships is, it's met with with a "huh?" and a shrug when the details added. It reminds me of driving into Edmonton and seeing a sign (which has finally been taken down a couple years ago) that says "City of Champions" - Gretzky had left there a long long time ago. When the Pac-12 was originally touting this title (at least in my recollection), it was during a time when we were also winning in the big sports - UW had won a football championship, UCLA and Arizona were winning championships it in basketball. We've been pretty irrelevant in those sports in recent history, and hence why it rings hollow for me.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Dec 8, 2020 18:01:20 GMT -8
The Pac 12 became irrelevant in football when the NCAA decided to come down hard on USC for the Reggie Bush benefits. Sad thing is, for some reason USC is about the only school they came down on with such ferocity, while kinda turning a blind eye to other schools who did much worse in comparison. As goes USC so goes the rest of the league in the eyes of east coast sports pundits.
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Wyoming
Dec 8, 2020 18:39:07 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by Judge Smails on Dec 8, 2020 18:39:07 GMT -8
The Pac 12 became irrelevant in football when the NCAA decided to come down hard on USC for the Reggie Bush benefits. Sad thing is, for some reason USC is about the only school they came down on with such ferocity, while kinda turning a blind eye to other schools who did much worse in comparison. As goes USC so goes the rest of the league in the eyes of east coast sports pundits. They came down on USC after Carroll left. USC had already fallen before then. But yes, the punishment was over the top
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