|
Post by Werebeaver on Feb 13, 2020 21:52:52 GMT -8
With all due respect. I value Scott Rueck's opinions on officiating more than I do yours. Don't take it personally. Yet they both get the same result. Except mine don't cost OSU points... almost a game. Congratulations.
|
|
|
Post by blastingsand on Feb 13, 2020 23:31:58 GMT -8
Can you image what the game will be like if they meet in the Pac12 tournament.
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Feb 14, 2020 9:18:28 GMT -8
Can you image what the game will be like if they meet in the Pac12 tournament. I guess we know what turns on blastingsand
|
|
|
Post by 411500 on Feb 14, 2020 9:23:56 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by bennyskid on Feb 14, 2020 9:29:01 GMT -8
I have one simple suggestion - something that the NCAA could do next season without a lot of effort and I suspect would make a huge difference within one year.
Keep stats on which refs make each call.
Here's what I see. Against Arizona, we had one very good ref (as I understand it, with WNBA experience) and two clunkers. A stat sheet would have shown that of the 35 fouls called in that game, that one ref had at least 2/3's of the calls.
Now, by itself that may or may not be a big deal - just like it may or may not mean anything when Ethan Thompson has 11 assists in one game. (Last night, it just meant that Utah couldn't keep Kylor away from the rim for alley-oops.) But over the course of the season it will become plain which refs are swallowing their whistles, which are calling certain things too tight, which can't count steps, which are too busy counting to three-seconds to call a push in the paint.
The conference and the NCAA don't even have to use the data. Refs that want to improve - and I think that almost all of them do want to be the best they can be - can use the data to work on their weaknesses. Just knowing that the data is being kept will likely make some of the whistle-swallowers a little quicker on the call.
The refs wouldn't like it, and I could see keeping the data out of public hands until the end of the season. But the first step to improve a process is to measure it. It's true in engineering, sports performance - pretty much every area in life other than sex - and there is no good reason not to apply it to officiating.
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Feb 14, 2020 10:07:31 GMT -8
Can you image what the game will be like if they meet in the Pac12 tournament. Like this:
|
|
|
Post by blastingsand on Feb 14, 2020 10:30:18 GMT -8
I guess we know what turns on blastingsand
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Feb 14, 2020 10:41:00 GMT -8
I have one simple suggestion - something that the NCAA could do next season without a lot of effort and I suspect would make a huge difference within one year. Keep stats on which refs make each call. Here's what I see. Against Arizona, we had one very good ref (as I understand it, with WNBA experience) and two clunkers. A stat sheet would have shown that of the 35 fouls called in that game, that one ref had at least 2/3's of the calls. Now, by itself that may or may not be a big deal - just like it may or may not mean anything when Ethan Thompson has 11 assists in one game. (Last night, it just meant that Utah couldn't keep Kylor away from the rim for alley-oops.) But over the course of the season it will become plain which refs are swallowing their whistles, which are calling certain things too tight, which can't count steps, which are too busy counting to three-seconds to call a push in the paint. The conference and the NCAA don't even have to use the data. Refs that want to improve - and I think that almost all of them do want to be the best they can be - can use the data to work on their weaknesses. Just knowing that the data is being kept will likely make some of the whistle-swallowers a little quicker on the call. The refs wouldn't like it, and I could see keeping the data out of public hands until the end of the season. But the first step to improve a process is to measure it. It's true in engineering, sports performance - pretty much every area in life other than sex - and there is no good reason not to apply it to officiating. First... (35) calls? Are you just speaking fouls? As there were far more than 35 "calls" in the and every other hoops game. Second... what does it matter the number or type of calls an official makes? What matters is if the calls are correct and backed up by video if thought to be blatantly incorrect. Third... officials are reviewed by supervisors after every game. Written reports are submitted and depending on the level and officials organization supervisors often attend live. But, I can guarantee that a spreadsheet of who makes what calls is meaningless over the constant reviews officials are part already part of. Fourth... many calls are judgmental based on circumstance. For example there are many "moving screens" in a game, but do they all impede player movement and create an advantage. Fifth... and lastly, many calls are "handed off" every game. Two or more officials will have a call and one will take the lead in reporting that call. In some cases they have a different call... jump ball vs foul for example... and after a discussion on progression one will take the call to the table. It is like some on here don't think the job of officiating is overseen at all. Just because you do not see or hear about the process one does exist.
|
|
|
Post by ronatemg on Feb 14, 2020 12:13:26 GMT -8
I have one simple suggestion - something that the NCAA could do next season without a lot of effort and I suspect would make a huge difference within one year. Keep stats on which refs make each call. Here's what I see. Against Arizona, we had one very good ref (as I understand it, with WNBA experience) and two clunkers. A stat sheet would have shown that of the 35 fouls called in that game, that one ref had at least 2/3's of the calls. Now, by itself that may or may not be a big deal - just like it may or may not mean anything when Ethan Thompson has 11 assists in one game. (Last night, it just meant that Utah couldn't keep Kylor away from the rim for alley-oops.) But over the course of the season it will become plain which refs are swallowing their whistles, which are calling certain things too tight, which can't count steps, which are too busy counting to three-seconds to call a push in the paint. The conference and the NCAA don't even have to use the data. Refs that want to improve - and I think that almost all of them do want to be the best they can be - can use the data to work on their weaknesses. Just knowing that the data is being kept will likely make some of the whistle-swallowers a little quicker on the call. The refs wouldn't like it, and I could see keeping the data out of public hands until the end of the season. But the first step to improve a process is to measure it. It's true in engineering, sports performance - pretty much every area in life other than sex - and there is no good reason not to apply it to officiating. First... (35) calls? Are you just speaking fouls? As there were far more than 35 "calls" in the and every other hoops game. Second... what does it matter the number or type of calls an official makes? What matters is if the calls are correct and backed up by video if thought to be blatantly incorrect. Third... officials are reviewed by supervisors after every game. Written reports are submitted and depending on the level and officials organization supervisors often attend live. But, I can guarantee that a spreadsheet of who makes what calls is meaningless over the constant reviews officials are part already part of. Fourth... many calls are judgmental based on circumstance. For example there are many "moving screens" in a game, but do they all impede player movement and create an advantage. Fifth... and lastly, many calls are "handed off" every game. Two or more officials will have a call and one will take the lead in reporting that call. In some cases they have a different call... jump ball vs foul for example... and after a discussion on progression one will take the call to the table. It is like some on here don't think the job of officiating is overseen at all. Just because you do not see or hear about the process one does exist. I was at an officiating camp years ago. One of the evaluators was a Pac12 official. He was telling a story how he was close to getting a D1 contract and late in a game he made an out of bounds call that wasn't his line. At the end of the game the evaluator went down showed him the contract he was about to get and then ripped it up in front of him for making that error. Another ref made a bad call in a Stanford game and noted he expected to be fired for such a bad call. It's extremely tough to get into D1 officiating and there are a ton of eyes on you not only from fans but also conference evaluators. At least 2 and sometimes 3 per game. Not saying the refs are always right every game. They're not. I've never called a perfect game and never will, but I'll often use this in my pregame with players/coaches 'I'll never miss a call if you don't miss a shot'
|
|
|
Post by nwhoopfan on Feb 14, 2020 12:38:59 GMT -8
I see out of position refs make calls all the time, when there is a ref literally right in front of the play that didn't see a reason to blow the whistle. That drives me nuts.
|
|
|
Post by sparty on Feb 14, 2020 12:49:27 GMT -8
I guess we know what turns on blastingsand The best fights I saw in high school were usually between two girls in the hall. Vicious and mean!
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Feb 14, 2020 12:57:15 GMT -8
I guess we know what turns on blastingsand Don’t worry. I’m not judging. Live like you wanna live.
|
|
|
Post by mbabeav on Feb 14, 2020 13:38:26 GMT -8
Seems more like ASU got their hands slapped, along with the officials. Sort of like the lawsuit where the plaintiff is asking for major money, and the defendant is found guilty, but the plaintiff is awarded the sum of $1.
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Feb 14, 2020 15:57:27 GMT -8
I guess we know what turns on blastingsand The best fights I saw in high school were usually between two girls in the hall. Vicious and mean! Perhaps. But I really can’t recall an actual fight in a PAC-10/12 WBB game. I do recall OSU's Tina Lelas taking a vicious elbow from USC’s Tina Thompson and getting her nose broken back in the Ali Hill / Michael Abraham era.
|
|
|
Post by 411500 on Feb 14, 2020 16:20:12 GMT -8
mbabeaver: What article are you reading?
|
|