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Post by nabeav on Feb 24, 2020 11:27:25 GMT -8
I am as disappointed as anyone in what has been accomplished with Beacer basketball - seems like, for an eternity. I do , however, see some promising building blocks for next year and would like to see these athletes, combined with a great recruiting class - devoid of coaches sons ( except for Ethan ), perform next year before we move on . Lucas looks loaded with promise , Tucker looks like he should have been getting more playing time, and Reichle has really become more effective. I don't care for Tinkles coaching style but maybe that was hampered by his handling of court time for the 'sons' ? Do not understand his substitutions, time outs, or basic offense - too many passes that end up in being a late clock one on one and forced shot ! Basically, I would go one more year to see what he can do under different circumstances ! Pat Casey and others have talked about how hard it is to coach your own kid....and I think it's probably equally as hard to play for a team where the coach is your teammate's father. I think, at the very least, Wayne has earned the opportunity to see how it'll work next year.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 24, 2020 14:05:36 GMT -8
I'm thinking it's tough enough on the coaches and the team when there's just one family involved, in this case there's two families involved on a sport with a relatively short roster of players and coaches.
Considering we're talking 2 coaches and 3 kids it's probably at least 6 times (3x2) harder on everyone, maybe 13 times (2²+3²) or 36 times (2²x3²) harder.... I don't know,I hated statistics class. Whatever, it had to complicate the team an coaching dynamic.
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 24, 2020 14:31:07 GMT -8
The only reason WT has "earned" another year is because he is under contract. So take Tres, Stevie, and Ethan off the roster the last few years. You are telling me the Oregon State men's basketball team would have been better off? Which of the players on those rosters would have performed better than those three?
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Post by nabeav on Feb 24, 2020 14:40:07 GMT -8
The only reason WT has "earned" another year is because he is under contract. So take Tres, Stevie, and Ethan off the roster the last few years. You are telling me the Oregon State men's basketball team would have been better off? Which of the players on those rosters would have performed better than those three? Would another coach have been to recruit players the level of Tres and the Thompsons to OSU? Were those three not available, Wayne would've had three more openings to offer kids who ended up playing elsewhere. No way of knowing what team would look like because I imagine they recruited players to fit around their three most talented kids. Without those three, entire recruiting pool might've shifted.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 24, 2020 14:41:27 GMT -8
The only reason WT has "earned" another year is because he is under contract. So take Tres, Stevie, and Ethan off the roster the last few years. You are telling me the Oregon State men's basketball team would have been better off? Which of the players on those rosters would have performed better than those three? We would have had 3 other players to fill their spots, also there is a possibility we may have had other better players deciding to go elsewhere rather than compete for minutes "with" or "behind" those three. We can't necessarily say the roster would have been unchanged and three even worse players added.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 24, 2020 16:23:32 GMT -8
The only reason WT has "earned" another year is because he is under contract. So take Tres, Stevie, and Ethan off the roster the last few years. You are telling me the Oregon State men's basketball team would have been better off? Which of the players on those rosters would have performed better than those three? Would another coach have been to recruit players the level of Tres and the Thompsons to OSU? Were those three not available, Wayne would've had three more openings to offer kids who ended up playing elsewhere. No way of knowing what team would look like because I imagine they recruited players to fit around their three most talented kids. Without those three, entire recruiting pool might've shifted. I'm not real sure what the point of the last few posts are?? But, another coach? Wayne hasn't recruited any talent equal to those three. And, no Drew was not equal. So really Wayne with three extra slots likely wouldn't have made any recruiting splashes and would have lost at least one of the three to transfer. What another coach could have done is totally speculative. But, it's fair to say most D1 hires in the Pac12 wouldn't have done worse over 6 years. However, the other component is that of player development. Some coaches don't need three 4* sons and can take a bunch of 3* types and really coach them up to draw and keep recruits. Recruiting itself only becomes a real issue if a coach is a terrible evaluator of talent and/or can't develop them. So, did OSU lose some real talent that will be developed elsewhere? Really, not so far? Are the levels of development steadily increasing our players skill levels and basketball IQ? To Pac12 levels? Conclusions are your own...
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 24, 2020 16:29:24 GMT -8
Would another coach have been to recruit players the level of Tres and the Thompsons to OSU? Were those three not available, Wayne would've had three more openings to offer kids who ended up playing elsewhere. No way of knowing what team would look like because I imagine they recruited players to fit around their three most talented kids. Without those three, entire recruiting pool might've shifted. I'm not real sure what the point of the last few posts are?? But, another coach? Wayne hasn't recruited any talent equal to those three. And, no Drew was not equal. So really Wayne with three extra slots likely wouldn't have made any recruiting splashes and would have lost at least one of the three to transfer. What another coach could have done is totally speculative. But, it's fair to say most D1 hires in the Pac12 wouldn't have done worse over 6 years. However, the other component is that of player development. Some coaches don't need three 4* sons and can take a bunch of 3* types and really coach them up to draw and keep recruits. Recruiting itself only becomes a real issue if a coach is a terrible evaluator of talent and/or can't develop them. So, did OSU lose some real talent that will be developed elsewhere? Really, not so far? Are the levels of development steadily increasing our players skill levels and basketball IQ? To Pac12 levels? Conclusions are your own... So how did Ernie Kent (a supposedly good coach at uo) due at WSU in 5 years? 22-68 in conference, which is worse than WT was in his first 5 years, even with WT's 1-17 conference season.
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 24, 2020 16:43:02 GMT -8
Ok whatever you say. Lets see WT has had openings for point guards and centers and has had a heck of a problem recruiting those positions. But I'm sure potential centers were worried playing behind Stevie.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 24, 2020 16:47:37 GMT -8
I'm not real sure what the point of the last few posts are?? But, another coach? Wayne hasn't recruited any talent equal to those three. And, no Drew was not equal. So really Wayne with three extra slots likely wouldn't have made any recruiting splashes and would have lost at least one of the three to transfer. What another coach could have done is totally speculative. But, it's fair to say most D1 hires in the Pac12 wouldn't have done worse over 6 years. However, the other component is that of player development. Some coaches don't need three 4* sons and can take a bunch of 3* types and really coach them up to draw and keep recruits. Recruiting itself only becomes a real issue if a coach is a terrible evaluator of talent and/or can't develop them. So, did OSU lose some real talent that will be developed elsewhere? Really, not so far? Are the levels of development steadily increasing our players skill levels and basketball IQ? To Pac12 levels? Conclusions are your own... So how did Ernie Kent (a supposedly good coach at uo) due at WSU in 5 years? 22-68 in conference, which is worse than WT was in his first 5 years, even with WT's 1-17 conference season. Ernie is actually one of the few exceptions that recruited worse. So again, when you're somewhere in the 9th/10th position in a 12 team league... recruiting and winning... I'll stick with my conclusions. You stick with whatever yours are. Cuz actually you tend to just fence sit and nitpick or in this case cherry pick. If course most would say WSU is even more difficult to recruit to, but hey whatever floats your lack of a point.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 24, 2020 16:50:13 GMT -8
Ok whatever you say. Lets see WT has had openings for point guards and centers and has had a heck of a problem recruiting those positions. But I'm sure potential centers were worried playing behind Stevie. Always... I'm quoting only because I'm not sure who or what you are responding/quoting? Your last two posts have confused me on your stance/views... I think??
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 24, 2020 17:15:27 GMT -8
So how did Ernie Kent (a supposedly good coach at uo) due at WSU in 5 years? 22-68 in conference, which is worse than WT was in his first 5 years, even with WT's 1-17 conference season. Ernie is actually one of the few exceptions that recruited worse. So again, when you're somewhere in the 9th/10th position in a 12 team league... recruiting and winning... I'll stick with my conclusions. You stick with whatever yours are. Cuz actually you tend to just fence sit and nitpick or in this case cherry pick. If course most would say WSU is even more difficult to recruit to, but hey whatever floats your lack of a point. Ernie had a couple of good recruits, but they left. Malachi Flynn at SDSU is having a monster year. It’s just hard to recruit to both WSU and OSU. It’s also hard to keep them with the current easing of the transfer process.
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Post by alwaysorange on Feb 24, 2020 17:17:42 GMT -8
Ok whatever you say. Lets see WT has had openings for point guards and centers and has had a heck of a problem recruiting those positions. But I'm sure potential centers were worried playing behind Stevie. Always... I'm quoting only because I'm not sure who or what you are responding/quoting? Your last two posts have confused me on your stance/views... I think?? Some think WT will have better results if his son and the Thompson's are no longer around. My point is he cannot recruit. So there won't be better players than the three mentioned. Some think players didn't want to come here and play behind the sons. Were centers afraid to come here because somehow they thought they were going to play behind Stevie. Same can be said fo r point guards.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 24, 2020 18:05:56 GMT -8
Always... I'm quoting only because I'm not sure who or what you are responding/quoting? Your last two posts have confused me on your stance/views... I think?? Some think WT will have better results if his son and the Thompson's are no longer around. My point is he cannot recruit. So there won't be better players than the three mentioned. Some think players didn't want to come here and play behind the sons. Were centers afraid to come here because somehow they thought they were going to play behind Stevie. Same can be said fo r point guards. Got it... agreed. They are the best recruits he has ever landed and doesn't coach up the others to a significant degree, so being difficult with a son on the team isn't going to make up for the drop in talent. The dude is a heart attack waiting to happen.
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Post by mbabeav on Feb 24, 2020 19:13:16 GMT -8
I don't think Ralph would have lasted past 75-76 in today's climate -
1970–71 Oregon State 12–14 4–10 6th 1971–72 Oregon State 18–10 9–5 3rd 1972–73 Oregon State 15–11 6–8 5th 1973–74 Oregon State 13–13 6–8 5th 1974–75 Oregon State 19–12 10–4 2nd NCAA Division I Second Round 1975–76 Oregon State 18–9* 10–4 2nd (15 wins were forfeited and official record for that season is 3-24)
It wasn't until this span that Ralph kicked it into gear - but several of those years had games forfeited due to violations
1978–79 Oregon State 18–10 11–7 3rd NIT First Round 1979–80 Oregon State 26–4** 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Second Round 1980–81 Oregon State 26–2** 17–1 1st NCAA Division I Second Round 1981–82 Oregon State 25–5*** 16–2 1st NCAA Division I Elite Eight 1982–83 Oregon State 20–11 12–6 3rd NIT Quarterfinal 1983–84 Oregon State 22–7 15–3 1st NCAA Division I First Round 1984–85 Oregon State 22–9 12–6 2nd NCAA Division I First Round 1985–86 Oregon State 12–15 8–10 5th 1986–87 Oregon State 19–11 10–8 3rd NIT Second Round 1987–88 Oregon State 20–11 12–6 2nd NCAA Division I First Round 1988–89 Oregon State 22–8 13–5 3rd NCAA Division I First Round
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 24, 2020 19:39:07 GMT -8
And the amazing thing is how many letters to the sports editor were saying we should fire Ralph his last couple of years. "Dinosaur" comes to mind remembering some of the letters.
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