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Post by ocbeav on Feb 3, 2020 20:20:48 GMT -8
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 4, 2020 16:57:13 GMT -8
I think that article is essentially a really good summary of the discussion that's been had on this board for some time. Great guy, seems to be an OK coach, and the general question of whose fault is it really? His, the AD, the school's, the players, or some combination of all of them? I don't think this WT situation is as cut, dry, and obvious as previous coaching decisions. I'm as close as I have ever been to feeling like it's his time to go, but in the back of my head there's still a little whisper that firing him could be a mistake.
As much as we want to not be limited by our recent (30 year) history, there's no denying it and there's no denying the fact that it has a much bigger effect on the program than we want to admit. Does that excuse WT from all criticism just because he's "better" than what we've had? No, but it is a factor that has to be considered. Wayne has had a relatively good coaching career if you look at his entire resumé and has had some difficulty recruiting talent here outside of coaches sons, but what coach outside of maybe CR hasn't?
I want our expectations to be high as much as anyone else but there is not a thing in the past 30 years (longer than I've been alive) to indicate that we should expect anything more than what we've seen from WT and staff. This year and last year's teams have thus far underperformed maybe more than it feels like they should, and that in itself is frustrating because it felt like last year's squad should've done more for sure, but we haven't seen even consistently competitive basketball outside of WT (with the exception of 1 year) in the last 30 years. Maybe it's because I don't know anything else and I wasn't around for the Ralph days, but it's hard for me to be too up in arms about the WT era even with this year's disappointment. I just don't see a way he doesn't get another year unless there's something along the lines of a 2-6 finish or worse.
There are plenty of things I would like to see improve such as player and bench development, player retention, in-game substitutions and strategy, etc., I just seriously question if our overall plight in MBB is as much a WT issue as it is all the other factors surrounding OSU and college basketball these days.
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Post by beaversproud on Feb 4, 2020 20:00:42 GMT -8
I really feel like someone wrote that after reading this message board lol
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Feb 4, 2020 20:55:51 GMT -8
I think that article is essentially a really good summary of the discussion that's been had on this board for some time. Great guy, seems to be an OK coach, and the general question of whose fault is it really? His, the AD, the school's, the players, or some combination of all of them? I don't think this WT situation is as cut, dry, and obvious as previous coaching decisions. I'm as close as I have ever been to feeling like it's his time to go, but in the back of my head there's still a little whisper that firing him could be a mistake. As much as we want to not be limited by our recent (30 year) history, there's no denying it and there's no denying the fact that it has a much bigger effect on the program than we want to admit. Does that excuse WT from all criticism just because he's "better" than what we've had? No, but it is a factor that has to be considered. Wayne has had a relatively good coaching career if you look at his entire resumé and has had some difficulty recruiting talent here outside of coaches sons, but what coach outside of maybe CR hasn't? I want our expectations to be high as much as anyone else but there is not a thing in the past 30 years (longer than I've been alive) to indicate that we should expect anything more than what we've seen from WT and staff. This year and last year's teams have thus far underperformed maybe more than it feels like they should, and that in itself is frustrating because it felt like last year's squad should've done more for sure, but we haven't seen even consistently competitive basketball outside of WT (with the exception of 1 year) in the last 30 years. Maybe it's because I don't know anything else and I wasn't around for the Ralph days, but it's hard for me to be too up in arms about the WT era even with this year's disappointment. I just don't see a way he doesn't get another year unless there's something along the lines of a 2-6 finish or worse. There are plenty of things I would like to see improve such as player and bench development, player retention, in-game substitutions and strategy, etc., I just seriously question if our overall plight in MBB is as much a WT issue as it is all the other factors surrounding OSU and college basketball these days. You know, I've seen a few references referring to last year's team as being underperformers, yet when I look up pre-season predictions every one I find says we were supposed to finish 9th-10. They finished tied for 4th or 5th and beat the conference favorite twice.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 4, 2020 21:16:27 GMT -8
I think that article is essentially a really good summary of the discussion that's been had on this board for some time. Great guy, seems to be an OK coach, and the general question of whose fault is it really? His, the AD, the school's, the players, or some combination of all of them? I don't think this WT situation is as cut, dry, and obvious as previous coaching decisions. I'm as close as I have ever been to feeling like it's his time to go, but in the back of my head there's still a little whisper that firing him could be a mistake. As much as we want to not be limited by our recent (30 year) history, there's no denying it and there's no denying the fact that it has a much bigger effect on the program than we want to admit. Does that excuse WT from all criticism just because he's "better" than what we've had? No, but it is a factor that has to be considered. Wayne has had a relatively good coaching career if you look at his entire resumé and has had some difficulty recruiting talent here outside of coaches sons, but what coach outside of maybe CR hasn't? I want our expectations to be high as much as anyone else but there is not a thing in the past 30 years (longer than I've been alive) to indicate that we should expect anything more than what we've seen from WT and staff. This year and last year's teams have thus far underperformed maybe more than it feels like they should, and that in itself is frustrating because it felt like last year's squad should've done more for sure, but we haven't seen even consistently competitive basketball outside of WT (with the exception of 1 year) in the last 30 years. Maybe it's because I don't know anything else and I wasn't around for the Ralph days, but it's hard for me to be too up in arms about the WT era even with this year's disappointment. I just don't see a way he doesn't get another year unless there's something along the lines of a 2-6 finish or worse. There are plenty of things I would like to see improve such as player and bench development, player retention, in-game substitutions and strategy, etc., I just seriously question if our overall plight in MBB is as much a WT issue as it is all the other factors surrounding OSU and college basketball these days. You know, I've seen a few references referring to last year's team as being underperformers, yet when I look up pre-season predictions every one I find says we were supposed to finish 9th-10. They finished tied for 4th or 5th and beat the conference favorite twice. Except we all know preseason predictions are folly and subject to many variables that can crop up. The underperforming, to many I'm guessing, comes from finishing 4th. Finishing 4-6 over the last 10 (4-5 in league after 6-3 start, then 1st Rd. loss). Get a break, 4th in tie break with 2 others. Get a tourney BYE, then get crushed scoring 58 points. Get no postseason consideration as a 4th place league team because the NC SOS is 229 (much better than this year) and a terrible finish.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 4, 2020 22:09:36 GMT -8
I think that article is essentially a really good summary of the discussion that's been had on this board for some time. Great guy, seems to be an OK coach, and the general question of whose fault is it really? His, the AD, the school's, the players, or some combination of all of them? I don't think this WT situation is as cut, dry, and obvious as previous coaching decisions. I'm as close as I have ever been to feeling like it's his time to go, but in the back of my head there's still a little whisper that firing him could be a mistake. As much as we want to not be limited by our recent (30 year) history, there's no denying it and there's no denying the fact that it has a much bigger effect on the program than we want to admit. Does that excuse WT from all criticism just because he's "better" than what we've had? No, but it is a factor that has to be considered. Wayne has had a relatively good coaching career if you look at his entire resumé and has had some difficulty recruiting talent here outside of coaches sons, but what coach outside of maybe CR hasn't? I want our expectations to be high as much as anyone else but there is not a thing in the past 30 years (longer than I've been alive) to indicate that we should expect anything more than what we've seen from WT and staff. This year and last year's teams have thus far underperformed maybe more than it feels like they should, and that in itself is frustrating because it felt like last year's squad should've done more for sure, but we haven't seen even consistently competitive basketball outside of WT (with the exception of 1 year) in the last 30 years. Maybe it's because I don't know anything else and I wasn't around for the Ralph days, but it's hard for me to be too up in arms about the WT era even with this year's disappointment. I just don't see a way he doesn't get another year unless there's something along the lines of a 2-6 finish or worse. There are plenty of things I would like to see improve such as player and bench development, player retention, in-game substitutions and strategy, etc., I just seriously question if our overall plight in MBB is as much a WT issue as it is all the other factors surrounding OSU and college basketball these days. You know, I've seen a few references referring to last year's team as being underperformers, yet when I look up pre-season predictions every one I find says we were supposed to finish 9th-10. They finished tied for 4th or 5th and beat the conference favorite twice. I hear that, and by no means am I discounting the fact that it was the first winning conference record in however many years, but it did still feel like an underperformance because of the team that we had (lot of talent with ET, ST, TT, and KK) in a weak conference and given how well they played the first half of conference play. At one point they were the look of a team that could WIN the conference before laying eggs in every opportunity they had to build on momentum or maintain it (outside of games against uo, all credit to them for spanking them twice). The thumping to UW at home, the thumping to a pretty bad Stanford team at home following the road mountain sweep, the two duds against the Arizona schools also at home, and blowing two games we had every chance to win @ucla and @uw. Oh and losing to Kent f%#*ing State at home.
There was no reason for last year's team to not be in the NCAA tournament discussion, let alone for them to not be invited to ANY relevant post-season tournament at all. I want WT to be successful as much as anyone, I really like the guy and think he is a fantastic fit for OSU which is part of why I can't bring myself to jump on the fire him bandwagon, but I can't help but be frustrated and disappointed at what I'm seeing.
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 4, 2020 23:17:06 GMT -8
WT is pretty much a worst-case scenario for OSU. Not bad enough to fire and try again, not good enough (or interesting enough) to keep sufficient fan interest in the program.
Not long ago, I was just hoping to not have a team that was an embarrassment to the university. WT has at least delivered us out of that, plus delivered us out of that nasty streak of missing the tournament every year. But a 7 figure paycheck needs to deliver more than that at some point.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 4, 2020 23:27:31 GMT -8
WT is pretty much a worst-case scenario for OSU. Not bad enough to fire and try again, not good enough (or interesting enough) to keep sufficient fan interest in the program. Not long ago, I was just hoping to not have a team that was an embarrassment to the university. WT has at least delivered us out of that, plus delivered us out of that nasty streak of missing the tournament every year. But a 7 figure paycheck needs to deliver more than that at some point. At least with WT we can discuss an NCAA tournament possibility. Not something that could be said about the previous regimes. Although that really just makes it more disappointing when the team underperforms.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 5, 2020 0:32:34 GMT -8
WT is pretty much a worst-case scenario for OSU. Not bad enough to fire and try again, not good enough (or interesting enough) to keep sufficient fan interest in the program. Not long ago, I was just hoping to not have a team that was an embarrassment to the university. WT has at least delivered us out of that, plus delivered us out of that nasty streak of missing the tournament every year. But a 7 figure paycheck needs to deliver more than that at some point. At least with WT we can discuss an NCAA tournament possibility. Not something that could be said about the previous regimes. Although that really just makes it more disappointing when the team underperforms. Well... we made the tourney one time. Not close any other... not any serious discussion. But, as easy as one can state 5-27 was an anomaly so can one say of the tourney bid. How often does the Pac12 get 7 bids? If so when is the 7th/ worst record only have 19 wins? How does the worst Pac12 overall record in get a 7 seed? Oregon 28 / 1 seed Utah 26 / 3 seed Zona 25 / 6 seed* same region Cal 23 / 4 seed* Col 22 / 8 seed* SC 21 / 8 seed OSU 19 / 7 seed One of these is not like the others. But hey, both "anomalies" happened... both happened... neither has much to do with the key issues facing the program. But, there were (4) at large bids with 19 wins... Vandy, TTech, OSU, Cuse. All lost their 1st game... except 10 seed Cuse went to the Final 4.
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Post by beaverinohio on Feb 5, 2020 3:33:34 GMT -8
My question to those that say MBB was so bad for 30 years and WT has improved upon that is for how long is that argument acceptable? If over the next 3 years, OSU has 2 seasons similar to this one and 1 like last year, are you still fine with that argument? At what point (if any) even with the past is mediocre to decent not good enough? Because that is what the team has been — with two outlier seasons.
Always a risk when you make a change, but not sure that risk is larger than the status quo and falling back into another down 30 years because WT really hasn’t shown much in the way of recruitment or player development. And for those who say, “well who would we get instead” I say there are plenty of coaches that could do as well or better. Since WT will likely get another year, I hope Barnes is compiling a list and doing his due diligence. One name that has recently intrigued me is David Patrick at UC Riverside. He was an ace recruiter as an assistant, and UC-R is his first HC gig. In his two years his overall record isn’t good, but he currently has them at 14 wins and above .500 in conference. So? Well since 2001 they’ve had only 4 seasons with 14 or more wins (14 thrice and 17 once) and have never finished above .500 in conference. Given that WT likely gets at least 1 more season, I’ll be keeping my eye on UC-R this year and next. Oh, and did I mention Patrick is an ace recruiter?
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Post by gnawitall on Feb 5, 2020 6:02:12 GMT -8
At least with WT we can discuss an NCAA tournament possibility. Not something that could be said about the previous regimes. Although that really just makes it more disappointing when the team underperforms. Well... we made the tourney one time. Not close any other... not any serious discussion. But, as easy as one can state 5-27 was an anomaly so can one say of the tourney bid. How often does the Pac12 get 7 bids? If so when is the 7th/ worst record only have 19 wins? How does the worst Pac12 overall record in get a 7 seed? Oregon 28 / 1 seed Utah 26 / 3 seed Zona 25 / 6 seed* same region Cal 23 / 4 seed* Col 22 / 8 seed* SC 21 / 8 seed OSU 19 / 7 seed One of these is not like the others. But hey, both "anomalies" happened... both happened... neither has much to do with the key issues facing the program. But, there were (4) at large bids with 19 wins... Vandy, TTech, OSU, Cuse. All lost their 1st game... except 10 seed Cuse went to the Final 4. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Feb 5, 2020 6:38:36 GMT -8
Well we keep kicking the Can and accepting mediocrity. I believe it is more than just Tinkle. We do not promote and do not draw any where near the best players. We have Coaches Sons and sadly a revolving door. Our future looks bleak whether He stays or leaves or is removed. The School needs to help with the whole perception and direction of this program. We have not been relevant since Jimmy Anderson’s last Year. Oh and relevant is not barely getting there but doing something. Oregon was beaten by us 2 times last year. The PAC 12 Tournament we folded like a cheap tent. They went on and sadly to Me were relevant. That is the Bar folks.
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Post by Judge Smails on Feb 5, 2020 7:56:26 GMT -8
Well we keep kicking the Can and accepting mediocrity. I believe it is more than just Tinkle. We do not promote and do not draw any where near the best players. We have Coaches Sons and sadly a revolving door. Our future looks bleak whether He stays or leaves or is removed. The School needs to help with the whole perception and direction of this program. We have not been relevant since Jimmy Anderson’s last Year. Oh and relevant is not barely getting there but doing something. Oregon was beaten by us 2 times last year. The PAC 12 Tournament we folded like a cheap tent. They went on and sadly to Me were relevant. That is the Bar folks. We were no longer relevant after Jimmy's 2nd year. He was 15-39 his last two years and had a losing record his last 4 years.
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Post by grackle on Feb 5, 2020 9:05:16 GMT -8
Facts seem to indicate that WT's coaching style is just not cut out to be successful in a big time setting. Montana State sure....PAC12, not so much.
It strikes me that WT would be far better suited as an assistant AD at OSU.....he really seems to love it here and he's great with the public. Put him in charge of raising $$ for the west side improvements. I'd wager that he'd be better at fund raising than anyone else here now.
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Post by spudbeaver on Feb 5, 2020 11:59:38 GMT -8
Facts seem to indicate that WT's coaching style is just not cut out to be successful in a big time setting. Montana State sure....PAC12, not so much. It strikes me that WT would be far better suited as an assistant AD at OSU.....he really seems to love it here and he's great with the public. Put him in charge of raising $$ for the west side improvements. I'd wager that he'd be better at fund raising than anyone else here now. Montana, actually. But maybe he would have been good at Montana St as well. Maybe he'll get a chance there soon?
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