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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 26, 2020 13:38:01 GMT -8
Let the season play out, then we will know if there’s an epic collapse or not. I could see it now in the AD’s office.... “we’re sitting at .600 and the crazies are getting restless.” I really think the AD will do the right thing at the end of the season, wether it be keeping or firing what staff he deems necessary, and no matter what he does there will be a contingent of fans who think he blew it. Barnes was involved in removing GA at the appropriate time, I suspect that would translate to other coaches. LOL... cherry picking, ".600"... like the 2-6/.250 in Pac12 play isn't the most important factor? Funny, supporters here had this team at 6-1, 5-3, 4-4 at the very worst. Instead even now at home we get beat by a rebuilding UCLA with a new coach who runs a system 180 to the previous. Schooled by ASU... and SC with a bunch of frosh! ROCKED by a new coach with supposedly no chance to win this year in Pullman. 2-6... 37-61... and what I love is that there are continually new excuses. It is pretty simple... if OSU/WT isn't clearly getting out recruited by everyone, their player development is vastly superior. The anomalies were the two wins where OSU shot out of their minds, which of course isn't the norm. All a fan has to do is watch the game... see the superior athletes on opposing teams... see the coaching acumen and adjustments (PS... incredible hot shooting isn't an adjustment)... watch other teams NOT go thru multiple 3 minute PLUS stretches without a field goal. And... 12-8... hmmm if our NC SOS wasn't in the low to mid 300's what would the record be? Like it matters when your team is 24 games under .500 where it truly counts. Hell supporters say 10-8/4th place is good enough... well, not happening this year... but, even at that 12 years OSU will be back to .500 in league play! Go Beavs! I'll go on the record as saying 2 and 6 in league play is not an issue, at most maybe a slight concern. 5 and 13, even 6 and 12 or 7 and 11 (depending on how the games went) , all of which would be even a higher win percentage than 2 and 6, would be an issue. Let the season play out. After looking at the recruiting rankings around conference I'm now inclined to agree that recruiting is an issue. but is it Tinkle, is it OSU as a destination, is an important cog in the recruiting process missing? I don't know. Then again, look at who we're recruiting against, UCLA played 7 kids who were top 100 recruits, USC played 5 (3 in the top 50), Washington played 3 top 100 recruits and another that was like #102, Arizona State and Stanford up there with USC and Arizona and oregon make them all look like whimpy recruiters. At best we should be able to recruit with the likes of WSU, Colorado, Utah and maybe Cal... yet we placed tied for 4th or 5th in the league at the end of last year. The big question is, would changing head coaches ever change our recruiting to where we could recruit with the California and Arizona schools and UW? I'm waiting to see at least 2 down years or the program fall apart before thinking change is in order.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 26, 2020 14:03:43 GMT -8
Let the season play out, then we will know if there’s an epic collapse or not. By all means, finish the season. That way even the excuse makers will see the truth. Worst case we finish 2-8 over the last 10 games of the season and the best case is 5-5. Either way, those records will not get you into the post-season tourneys.
There's no incentive for Barnes to pull the plug now, but this must be done at the end of the season and prior to the completion of his contract. That's what my post is all about. The hole for OSU men's basketball will be deeper for the next coach if we give him another season.
So far Tinkle has won 37 conference games out of 98 played. At the 98 game mark, Robinson had won 35 conference games. That's 2 conference wins over 6 seasons improvement over the fired Robinson. It's tough to make the case that Tinkle should have a 7th season when we didn't give one to Robinson with a similar record. His lone NCAA appearance was offset by the worst season win total in the last 100 years - so that's not a valid argument either.
Tinkle still has a chance to show why he should be retained. But that's on him. He would need to win a majority of the remaining games and go deep enough into the Pac 12 tourney to get a post-season bid. I have not seen that coach in the past 6 seasons so I don't expect this outcome.
Once again I see someone not taking Tinkle's 3rd season as an aberration and ignoring the other four non-losing seasons when looking at his record. If having 3 winning seasons and one .500 season out of 5 coming off 24 years with only a single winning regular season doesn't buy a year's worth of grace, or at least until the end of the current season, I can't see any successful coach wanting to come here. If one believes there's a possibility that the law of attraction exists, there's a group that are attracting a losing season, and a continuously losing future, right now. The end of the season is the proper time to discuss these things. If the team wins 18 games (you just said 17 is the best case scenario) what then?
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Post by fridaynightlights on Jan 26, 2020 18:34:27 GMT -8
Just to give an idea of how subpar our recruiting is. In the past 6 years OSU has signed five 4 star players - 3 of them being coaches kids. uo has signed 24 four star or above players in that same time span. Ultimately poor recruiting will be WTs main downfall. IMO the next hire should be a youngish charismatic assistant from a blueblood type program who is used to recruiting top players. Recruiting will still be a struggle but we need a fresh charismatic face to sell the program.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jan 26, 2020 18:53:32 GMT -8
You probably shouldn't use uo as a comparison to be fair at all. The in house recruiting rules changed when Altman arrived. uo and Arizona and I think a couple others have been accused of paying significant cash for recruits. They struggled before that change.
OSU did recruit and land a couple other kids that were 4 star and border 4 star kids at one point in one ratings service or another (Mcloughlin, Kone, Hollins, Wilson I believe) that didn't or haven't worked out.
There is a big gap in recruiting between the haves and have nots in recruiting in this league. The Arizonas, at least 3 of the 4 California schools (all 4 if Cal found a great coach) and Washington will probably always have a distinct advantage. Without a gangbuster hire I'm not sure that OSU could consistently compete with several schools in the league in men's basketball recruiting. It makes coaching all that more important.
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Post by greshambeaver on Jan 26, 2020 19:36:17 GMT -8
Sorry, aint gonna happen. Not unless a different Wayne Tinkle shows up as the Head Coach!
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Jan 26, 2020 20:20:23 GMT -8
I would say it is the place. No recent History in Men’s Basketball. The facilities are poor at best. The investment is poor. Tinkle did ok at Montana a team that played better than we have. It is not just this Year. Look what happened in PAC 12 playoffs. We are not very athletic and our shot blocker cannot score or rebound. The Guards cannot finish nor can they create. Tinkle can be slowed and no body steps up. The solution is investment and an admission we need New Arena and new Cash. The Fan base is lowering in attendance. We have been pathetic for a long time and seem to think it should improve. It will not.
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Post by sagebrush on Jan 26, 2020 20:27:45 GMT -8
You are right. Gill is 70 years old and there is only so much you can do with a skeleton that old.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 26, 2020 20:38:19 GMT -8
You are right. Gill is 70 years old and there is only so much you can do with a skeleton that old. I'll only argue that it is possible. Hec Ed is 92 years old and the 2000(?) renovation was fabulous. Great place to watch. The same could be done with Gill... and should be.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Jan 26, 2020 21:32:35 GMT -8
You are right. Gill is 70 years old and there is only so much you can do with a skeleton that old. I'll only argue that it is possible. Hec Ed is 92 years old and the 2000(?) renovation was fabulous. Great place to watch. The same could be done with Gill... and should be. I agree that Gill can be renovated and turned into a much more attractive place to see a game. The front plaza looks good and the new lighting and scoreboard are nice too. The amount of AD offices there are in Gill (all of them?) also kind of limits what we can do from a renovation standpoint. It's just a small building but that does not mean there aren't ways to improve it significantly.
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Post by pitbeavs on Jan 26, 2020 23:55:09 GMT -8
I'll only argue that it is possible. Hec Ed is 92 years old and the 2000(?) renovation was fabulous. Great place to watch. The same could be done with Gill... and should be. I agree that Gill can be renovated and turned into a much more attractive place to see a game. The front plaza looks good and the new lighting and scoreboard are nice too. The amount of AD offices there are in Gill (all of them?) also kind of limits what we can do from a renovation standpoint. It's just a small building but that does not mean there aren't ways to improve it significantly. It's not just "attractive" that's the issue. Seismic retrofits will be obscenely expensive and likely necessitate calls for a new building. Additionally, seriously non-compliant disabled access puts Gill squarely in the sights of civil rights attorneys. Gill will die an urban death before it's renovated.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 27, 2020 6:48:59 GMT -8
I would say it is the place. No recent History in Men’s Basketball. The facilities are poor at best. The investment is poor. The solution is investment and an admission we need New Arena and new Cash. The Fan base is lowering in attendance. We have been pathetic for a long time and seem to think it should improve. It will not. Gill isn't the "problem." Obviously some upgrades must always be ongoing but it seems to work just fine and is an outstanding venue for the women's program.
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Post by gowenbeavs on Jan 27, 2020 6:56:01 GMT -8
Sorry, aint gonna happen. Not unless a different Wayne Tinkle shows up as the Head Coach! Bingo - I think WT will be a better coach and recruiter once the token boys have departed for Europe. Give him another year.
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Post by alwaysorange on Jan 27, 2020 7:04:19 GMT -8
Give him another year? Have you seen what is returning for next years team? Yikes.
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Post by nabeav on Jan 27, 2020 9:41:03 GMT -8
Being realistic, it takes an epic collapse for the AD to actually do something up there. They just have too much other things to worry about like adding another of way of broadcasting women's basketball behind the scenes on youtube or other social media. Barnes has been here about three years. Already four underperforming coaches have been fired/released (FB, WS, MS, TF/CC) and replaced by superior hires. A non-performing, money-sucking sport has been dropped (swimming). The softball field, Gill bowl, Gill front patio, strength & conditioning center, WBB locker room and Goss Stadium have been significantly upgraded. While I agree with you about coaches being fired/let go, let's also pump the brakes a little bit: While you'll never hear me say Gary Andersen needed to stay, He was 6-18 in his first two seasons. Smith is 7-17. Is he a better coach? Unquestionably. Also we hired a guy who was never going to say no to this job. Working out well so far, but most people were still on board with GA after year two as well. Linus Rhode had a rough end to his tenure as women's soccer coach, but won 54 games over a four year span from 2009-12 and made the NCAAs three times. He bottomed out in 2014 with a winless campaign, but had steadily improved the record until a bad year in 2018 made him expendable. Kagan had a good first season, but failed to make the NCAAs. Terry Boss was a good hire and had a great run in his first season, but backslid in year two. UCLA tried to woo him away after his first season, but we got him to stay, I'd guess by giving him a raise and/or extension. Track and Field I have no idea about other than I know we made the NCAAs in cross country. Seems like a good hire, but how much easier is the job to recruit to with the new track that was fundraised for by the previous administration and coaching staff? My point is that coaches at Oregon State in a variety of sports have a history of quick signs of success followed by contract extensions/raises and then plateauing or coming back to the baseline. LaVonda Wagner, Craig Robinson, Wayne Tinkle, Mike Riley II would fit this as well...all had success early in their tenure. All were given extensions. All declined. I'm not saying Scott Barnes is a bad athletic director. I just don't think you can say he's any better than BDC yet. The transformation of OSU athletics facilities started with Barnhart, but BDC saw most of that through. A lot of those facilities that you mentioned being upgraded were actually built during BDC's tenure.
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Post by alwaysorange on Jan 27, 2020 11:05:59 GMT -8
Right now OSUs AD needs to be at least a part time salesman. Barnhart was a salesman decarolis and Barnes were not and are not.
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