|
|
Post by sagebrush on Jan 20, 2020 15:44:25 GMT -8
It was a simple swim move to break contact and get down the court. Been there, done that, never been called. Basketball is a contact sport, Even with the flop, should have been a no call.
|
|
rafer
Sophomore
Posts: 1,627 
|
Post by rafer on Jan 20, 2020 16:18:09 GMT -8
I typically don't take shots at posters. And won't here. I watched the replay again about 6 times today and never did Pivec's elbow hit Prechtel in the head. Period. Pivec uses her hands and arm to push Prechtel off of her. Prechtel embellished the shove and earned a common foul on Pivec. Prechtel never had possession of that rebound as baseba1111 asserts. Pivec rebounded the ball and was being bumped by Prechtel before Pivec passed the ball. Once again, check the replay at 2:05 remaining to remind yourself that Prechtel did not have possession as baseba1111's post above states. On that rebound, Pivec had secured possession. Prechtel raised up her right elbow and arm as she turns and Pivec heads up the court. I am not a mindreader but can certainly speculate about what Prechtel was attempting to do with her actions. Pivec responded to having an elbow and arm on her head as she attempted to head up the court after securing that rebound. Baseba1111 stated that it doesn't matter what prompted Pivec to respond and then changes his stance in a later post that acknowledges that the refs can check for a flagrant foul on Prechtel. I stated that clearly in a prior post. Fouls can be changed during video review in certain circumstances, including a review of a block/charge under the basket. It happened with a Hebard/Gulich block/charge two years ago in Gill. I wasn't expecting the ref to call a double foul unless she determined that Prechtel had thrown an elbow. As to making crap up, I don't think that I am. I was at the game as well. I just wanted to review the replay multiple times to see what may have provoked Pivec to shove Prechtel away from her. But, but, baseball1111 said!!!! :-) |
|
|
|
Post by alwaysorange on Jan 20, 2020 16:26:25 GMT -8
Never knew a person had all the answers to everything. Then I started reading baseball1111's comments and now know he knows all (eye roll).
|
|
|
|
Post by alwaysorange on Jan 20, 2020 16:31:45 GMT -8
What I saw from the camera under the basket was pivec with the ball and prechtel draped all over her (should have been a foul) and pivec after releasing the ball simply trying to get prechtel off her. There were no elbows, forearms, etc.. If you are going to get a flagrant for that petty stuff you'd better make it count.
|
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Jan 20, 2020 16:56:43 GMT -8
What I saw from the camera under the basket was pivec with the ball and prechtel draped all over her (should have been a foul) and pivec after releasing the ball simply trying to get prechtel off her. There were no elbows, forearms, etc.. If you are going to get a flagrant for that petty stuff you'd better make it count. I concur. The officials allowed the pushing by Prechtel as Pivec gained possession of the rebound, then reacted to the 6'5" Prechtel falling down as though Pivec had landed a haymaker on her. Officials get fooled by players' reactions on occasion. Pivec's frustration was apparent and she allowed that frustration to play out in pushing Prechtel off her. I don't think that Pivec will do that again because of what it would mean to her team. She is all about her team and, as a very clean competitor, is usually one of the first people to offer a fallen opponent a hand up. I don't see her as a player that initiates those types of skirmishes unless provoked and frustrated. Watching the ASU double foul and last night's common foul against Pivec, I think that she had enough of what she considered dirty play and responded accordingly. |
|
|
|
Post by beaveragain on Jan 20, 2020 17:39:28 GMT -8
""thug" is a huge jump from out of character... retaliation... behind the play..." What you are describing is "a violent person" ie a thug. If that's not what you intend then don't say it.
"They don't change how they call, the play determines the calls" Refs change how they call games all of the time. If things are going too roughly they start calling more fouls. Things are going OK they keep their whistle in their pocket. This per my personal observations, comments by many coaches many times, and recently two refs and the NW ref's supervisor in a casual conversation. And I wouldn't want it to be differently.
|
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 20, 2020 17:57:11 GMT -8
I typically don't take shots at posters. And won't here. I watched the replay again about 6 times today and never did Pivec's elbow hit Prechtel in the head. Period. Pivec uses her hands and arm to push Prechtel off of her. Prechtel embellished the shove and earned a common foul on Pivec. Prechtel never had possession of that rebound as baseba1111 asserts. Pivec rebounded the ball and was being bumped by Prechtel before Pivec passed the ball. Once again, check the replay at 2:05 remaining to remind yourself that Prechtel did not have possession as baseba1111's post above states. On that rebound, Pivec had secured possession. Prechtel raised up her right elbow and arm as she turns and Pivec heads up the court. I am not a mindreader but can certainly speculate about what Prechtel was attempting to do with her actions. Pivec responded to having an elbow and arm on her head as she attempted to head up the court after securing that rebound. Baseba1111 stated that it doesn't matter what prompted Pivec to respond and then changes his stance in a later post that acknowledges that the refs can check for a flagrant foul on Prechtel. I stated that clearly in a prior post. Fouls can be changed during video review in certain circumstances, including a review of a block/charge under the basket. It happened with a Hebard/Gulich block/charge two years ago in Gill. I wasn't expecting the ref to call a double foul unless she determined that Prechtel had thrown an elbow. As to making crap up, I don't think that I am. I was at the game as well. I just wanted to review the replay multiple times to see what may have provoked Pivec to shove Prechtel away from her. The horse is dead I will only defend "position" was the intent not possession as it was very obvious who had the ball... OSU... which the foul negated that "possession". I did state it doesn't matter... Pivec fouled... it was called. What happened to her doesn't change that call as explained. In a review you can't call a common foul that was not the one being reviewed. They can see if a undetected flagrant was committed. BUT... it would not negate the original call. HENCE, IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE what happened to Pivec prior in terms of her foul call. And... let's go reread your post... yep you mentioned a flagrant could be called, it wasn't. AND... as stated it would not have affected the call on Pivec... which is what I said initially and you counter that it would matter how? No call on Furd, no flop warning... foul OSU. Flagrant on Furd, flop warning on Furd... foul on OSU! Get it... made no difference on the Pivec call. And... you clearly did make stuff up... the exact point I was making, you think you knew intent! Not until your latest post did you say you were speculating. You previously said, "She raised her elbow for a reason. She knew where Pivec's head was." That my friend the perfect example of making s%#t up! Did it for a reason cuz she knew where the opponent's head was! Pretty clear you were not speculating crap! For a couple others that saw no elbow/forearm... yeah. For another couple..."thug"... "violent"... even better at just tossing crap out there and hoping it sticks. But, as stated MP has been out of character two games in a row. That implies nothing more than it says. Except of course to those who just like to... yep... make s%#t up! I love the discourse... don't mind being seen as the asshat... but, what I state is my opinion and disagreeing with others is part of sticking to what you believe/observe. It's not about the other guy being wrong. BUT... they are indeed full of s%#t and WRONG when a poster states fallacies that include: -stating they know intent of others; -creating situations/conspiracies that do not exist; -taking opinion/words of others and completely misrepresenting what was said... not just out of context, but complete hogwash; To name the most blatant anyway. Stay on the high horse... keep on striving to be "right".  |
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Jan 20, 2020 18:18:18 GMT -8
Baseba1111 is certainly entitled to his opinion. Sometimes it seems to me that he takes a side simply to cause controversy and dissent. Like all of us on ocassion, he makes mistakes and then tries to clarify what he actually intended later, such as "position" vs. "possession". He owned up to that above. He likes to state that others are "making things up" when their stated opinions vary from his.
Pivec didn't lose her composure during two straight games as he posted above, unless he found something else objectionable about her play in the Cal game on Friday. But, baseba1111 stated it as a fact so it must be right. Or, maybe he intended to write something else and simply forgot about the Cal game.
|
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 20, 2020 18:29:50 GMT -8
Baseba1111 is certainly entitled to his opinion. Sometimes it seems to me that he takes a side simply to cause controversy and dissent. Like all of us on ocassion, he makes mistakes and then tries to clarify what he actually intended later, such as "position" vs. "possession". He owned up to that above. He likes to state that others are "making things up" when their state opinions vary from his. Pivec didn't lose her composure during two straight games as he posted above, unless he found something else objectionable about her play in the Cal game on Friday. But, baseba1111 stated it as a fact so it must be right. Or, maybe he intended to write something else and simply forgot about the Cal game. Nope didn't forget... nor claimed it as fact (thx for the consistency in implied meaning of others) just typing. I knew it was the ASU game. Plus, others may have the opinion the issue at ASU was indeed not a loss of composure?! And, nice job of ignoring your "speculating" vs intent... as stated originally it was not opinion, so now it is as stated in your revised speculatory post? Or, just not owning up to that?  |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Jan 20, 2020 18:51:56 GMT -8
Interesting that everyone here will defend Pivec when she loses her cool, but if Sabrina pulled that move, she’s suddenly the next hitler.
I maybe Baseballls nemesis on this board, but he’s right in this case. You can’t react that way and expect a no call.
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 20, 2020 18:56:10 GMT -8
Brenda Pantoja is a Final Four-caliber ref. She barely blew her whistle yesterday, generally does a very nice job.
Never heard of Kenneth Nash, he seems new to the Pac-12.
Cheryl Flores made the behind-the-play call on Pivec, and the jump-ball call late in the game when Kat Tudor was mugged right near the OSU bench. After watching her numerous times, my opinion is she is a poor official, and never should have been assigned to a game of that magnitude.
|
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Jan 20, 2020 18:58:13 GMT -8
Just a "typing" error? That doesn't even make sense in that you wrote that she lost her composure in two straight games. Did your typing intend to state "two of the past three games?" When you forget history or make a mistake, own up to it and don't blame it on your "typing."
As for why I will try to use the word "speculating" more in the future, I will credit you for that. You are correct in that one may never know what another person is actually thinking. However, one can speculate based upon observation and other facts what a person's motivation is for doing what they did.
I was speculating about why Pivec did what she did and what Prechtel may have done to frustrate a player in Pivec who typically plays perhaps too "nicely" at times. I saw several times what happened to Pivec on the play in ASU that led to the double foul. I did the same with the her push on Prechtel. If I saw Pivec through an elbow, I would have called her on it. Elbows are thrown often in basketball, but are infrequently called.
|
|
|
|
Post by beavershoopsfan on Jan 20, 2020 19:02:24 GMT -8
Interesting that everyone here will defend Pivec when she loses her cool, but if Sabrina pulled that move, she’s suddenly the next hitler. I maybe Baseballls nemesis on this board, but he’s right in this case. You can’t react that way and expect a no call. Sabrina has pushed away her teammate (Oti Gildon) in frustration during a game. Pivec's frustrations seem to be focused on battles with players on opposing teams. |
|
|
|
Post by Werebeaver on Jan 20, 2020 19:15:39 GMT -8
Interesting that everyone here will defend Pivec when she loses her cool, but if Sabrina pulled that move, she’s suddenly the next hitler. I maybe Baseballls nemesis on this board, but he’s right in this case. You can’t react that way and expect a no call. Sabrina has pushed away her teammate (Oti Gildon) in frustration during a game. Pivec's frustrations seem to be focused on battles with players on opposing teams. On Senior day with Gildon's folks in attendance. |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Jan 20, 2020 19:47:08 GMT -8
Interesting that everyone here will defend Pivec when she loses her cool, but if Sabrina pulled that move, she’s suddenly the next hitler. I maybe Baseballls nemesis on this board, but he’s right in this case. You can’t react that way and expect a no call. Sabrina has pushed away her teammate (Oti Gildon) in frustration during a game. Pivec's frustrations seem to be focused on battles with players on opposing teams. And there you go. Crappy sportsmanship is OK when it’s our player and it’s directed at the opposition. Thanks for proving my point. |
|
