|
|
Post by Judge Smails on Jan 3, 2020 20:16:18 GMT -8
Which has zero to do with tech and everything to do with they deserve what they get! Okay, but, Baseball, I don't KNOW what percentage they actually account for. Do you? I don't. Maybe, they don't want what we wanted when we were young'ns. I chased the "American Dream:" A family of five. $$$. A nice home. Vacations. Saving for retirement. Baseball, Apple Pie and Chevrolet..... etc., etc., etc. (Cue Yule Brenner). This generation is different. Wait, you never dreamed about being an influencer? |
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Jan 3, 2020 21:00:21 GMT -8
Okay, but, Baseball, I don't KNOW what percentage they actually account for. Do you? I don't. Maybe, they don't want what we wanted when we were young'ns. I chased the "American Dream:" A family of five. $$$. A nice home. Vacations. Saving for retirement. Baseball, Apple Pie and Chevrolet..... etc., etc., etc. (Cue Yule Brenner). This generation is different. Wait, you never dreamed about being an influencer? Ha ha! Well, probably. But only in person to his kids! |
|
|
|
Post by seastape on Jan 3, 2020 21:06:08 GMT -8
Good jobs? Family wage jobs with benefits? The unemployment/employment rate says NOTHING of the underemployed. They are legion. Most young folks I know WITH degrees (not in basket-weaving) struggle with TWO incomes. Folks blame everything BUT automation. It is a real and growing concern. I have witnessed it for decades. " .....And, the US has always had jobs of all types, earnings, "family wage" jobs." What does that mean? What always "was," is not relevant to what IS. There were 250,000,000 souls in the U.S. in 1990. An estimated 330,000,000 in 2019. 30,000,000 "new' jobs doesn't quite cut it. worldpopulationreview.com/countries/united-states-population/I’ve got a bunch of good, well paying family wage jobs available! Pipe layers, equipment operators, laborers, truck drivers, oilers, mechanics. $18-35/hour plus benefits. Guess what? Can’t fill them! When we do finally find a young person many fail their drug test. The ones that make it through that have about a 10% success rate. Too hard. Too many hours. There’s a ton of my competitors in the same boat. By the way, you didn’t take into account the large number of people leaving the job market due to age, mortality, quitting. Boom. This ^^^^^^ I was talking to my sister about this subject while in my hometown after Christmas. My sister has in PhD in education from Stanford is now fairly high in the Santa Clara (CA) Unified system. She said that education from the 70s up until the last couple of years over-stressed the importance of a college education: you were not going to make it if you didn't get that bachelors. Blue collar jobs were frowned upon and now there's a shortage in a lot of those areas. A lot of them are well paying and produce good, rewarding careers. Electricians, welders, plumbers, framers, not to mention the commercial aspects of these jobs...a lot have good pay with good benefits. Some don't. On the other hand, some jobs requiring a college degree don't pay for …. I say this as a lawyer with 20 years of education (1st grade-law school) and even more continuing legal education. I've had a widely varied work history and my favorite job was probably as a foreman in a fish processing plant in Alaska. (Why'd I leave? 'Cause the remote areas of Alaska are where the best processing jobs were and I require a population of more than 100-500 people year-round to find it enjoyable) It's hard to see the forest for the trees when one starts out in the blue collar world...minimum or close-to-minimum wage to start and hard, hard work. But people who stuck with it have been well rewarded if they kept their head on straight. In some ways the high cost of college may be a good thing because it opened young people up to the notion that there are other paths than just college jobs. Good paying jobs that don't require a mountain of debt to get to. A lot of manufacturing jobs in the future will be automated, but a lot of other jobs won't be, and some of those are excellent blue (and white) collar jobs. |
|
|
|
Post by spudbeaver on Jan 3, 2020 21:12:07 GMT -8
I’ve got a bunch of good, well paying family wage jobs available! Pipe layers, equipment operators, laborers, truck drivers, oilers, mechanics. $18-35/hour plus benefits. Guess what? Can’t fill them! When we do finally find a young person many fail their drug test. The ones that make it through that have about a 10% success rate. Too hard. Too many hours. There’s a ton of my competitors in the same boat. By the way, you didn’t take into account the large number of people leaving the job market due to age, mortality, quitting. Boom. This ^^^^^^ I was talking to my sister about this subject while in my hometown after Christmas. My sister has in PhD in education from Stanford is now fairly high in the Santa Clara (CA) Unified system. She said that education from the 70s up until the last couple of years over-stressed the importance of a college education: you were not going to make it if you didn't get that bachelors. Blue collar jobs were frowned upon and now there's a shortage in a lot of those areas. A lot of them are well paying and produce good, rewarding careers. Electricians, welders, plumbers, framers, not to mention the commercial aspects of these jobs...a lot have good pay with good benefits. Some don't. On the other hand, some jobs requiring a college degree don't pay for …. I say this as a lawyer with 20 years of education (1st grade-law school) and even more continuing legal education. I've had a widely varied work history and my favorite job was probably as a foreman in a fish processing plant in Alaska. (Why'd I leave? 'Cause the remote areas of Alaska are where the best processing jobs were and I require a population of more than 100-500 people year-round to find it enjoyable) It's hard to see the forest for the trees when one starts out in the blue collar world...minimum or close-to-minimum wage to start and hard, hard work. But people who stuck with it have been well rewarded if they kept their head on straight. In some ways the high cost of college may be a good thing because it opened young people up to the notion that there are other paths than just college jobs. Good paying jobs that don't require a mountain of debt to get to. A lot of manufacturing jobs in the future will be automated, but a lot of other jobs won't be, and some of those are excellent blue (and white) collar jobs. Spot on! The “everybody has to go to college“ mantra was not only bad for the future economy, but a terrible disservice to kids who really weren’t the college type. Wiping out Vo-tech programs in HS was the absolute worst thing we could have done. It takes all kinds to make the world go around!! |
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 3, 2020 21:42:22 GMT -8
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Especially since the state of Oregon spent tens of millions in the mid to late 80s on a good idea, but poorly executed CIM/CAM education plan.
Kids were given the first two years of solid gen ed courses. During that time it would allow them the opportunity to start finding a path forward... a "Certificate of Initial Mastery".
From there the plan had them choosing a path... basically college or vocational. Students weren't tied to a path, but were able to use their interests to help pick an educational path. They could earn a "Certificate of Advanced Mastery"... off to college or vocational ed or internships.
High schools were supposedly supposed to focus on a couple academic or vocational paths. Students were free to migrate to schools that served their interests.
Like all plans from the Department of Ed... great ideas with no possiblity of follow thru. Logistically or financially. But, of course they kept creating new, meaningless programs... PASS, competencies, content standards, TESA, OAKS, CCGs, etc, etc, etc. So, 100s of millions of wasted dollars and still a ineffective, broken K-12 system.
|
|
|
|
Post by sagebrush on Jan 5, 2020 15:41:27 GMT -8
Couple posters above made a great point about automation being job killers. Talking good paying blue collar jobs. Take sawmills. Used to be mills running 2-3 shifts employing say 100 people. Now, that same will with automation employs maybe 15-20 on a shift that can do more particularly small logs (pecker poles) and produce more per shift. Learned something about automobile assembly lines at the Corvette plant at Bowling Green, KY. We are doing the tour and were at the windshield part of it with a robot doing the job. Guy walking by coming back from his lunch break stopped and was talking to a couple of us. He said that before the robot and told us that before the robot, this is what he did. Then he told us that this was hard for him to say. He said he was real good at his job, exceeded the productivity standards but that damn robot not only did it faster but did it better.
Those blue collar jobs are never, ever coming back.
|
|
|
|
Post by steinlager on Jan 6, 2020 21:28:46 GMT -8
Danny: I want to go to college but my parents can't afford it.
Judge Smails: The world needs ditch diggers, too.
Caddyshack taught me a lot about life.
|
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Jan 6, 2020 23:26:12 GMT -8
Danny: I want to go to college but my parents can't afford it. Judge Smails: The world needs ditch diggers, too. Caddyshack taught me a lot about life. Well, if it's with NW Natural you'll make good money and eventually graduate to "ditch digger supervisor" and make even more. |
|
