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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 0:47:16 GMT -8
Post by beaveragain on Nov 20, 2019 0:47:16 GMT -8
UConn is based off of Boneyard. Maybe your wrong?
Ducks and Louis are based off of Raoul. Maybe your wrong?
You don't think the Ducks can afford to buy a few overseas tickets with $300,000 more than the Beav's?
By Nike I meant Phil Knight. And yes, he does donate money to the U of O athletic department. I'm surprised this is news to you.
UConn was $7 million in the 2016-17 season.
Really not sure why you are insisting that everyone behaves and goes about everything the exact same way. Is this something you see a lot in life?
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Post by beaverstever on Nov 20, 2019 1:26:50 GMT -8
I find the whole premise of this post a bit curious, given the examples of top programs. If you look the last 5 years, Rueck's teams look a lot like anybody in the list, with only getting to and/or winning an NC separating them... and not even that case for some. Stanford has not been past the final 4 in a decade, and only been there once in the last 5 years, same as the Beavs. UO hasn't been past the elite 8 ever until for last year. Baylor hadn't gotten past the elite 8 for 7 years until finally breaking through last year. Even UConn hasn't gotten past the final 4 in 3 years, and looks very much like it will be 4... and would not be surprised at all if they get bounced well before the final 4 this year. On talent specifically, OSU has put 3 players on WNBA rosters during that time, and currently has two that are fully expected to get drafted. And I'm pretty confident there will be more on the current roster in a few years. Point being, OSU WBB already IS getting results like elite programs (and a lot better results compared to some traditionally elite like Tenn, Duke and Maryland. Yes, we haven't yet fielded a team positioned well to win it all, which often involves a transcendent player or two (i.e. Griner for Baylor, Stewart for UConn), but it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility for OSU to get such a player, as we have players on the roster now that have some serious upside (i.e. it's not hard to imagine Aquino developing into a transcendent player - I'm not holding my breath that it will happen at this point, but the fact she's at OSU makes the point that SR is already able to get that type of player on campus). So it seems like your question is if Rueck's approach can get over the hump to field a championship caliber team? Well, first, it takes special roster alignment to get to an NC game ... Baylor and Oregon has that roster alignment this year and last year, but I will not be surprised if neither get past the sweet 16 next year, after graduating so much of their leadership and production. OSU might have had a team that could challenge this year if Aquino was having a sophomore leap coming off a strong freshman campaign, but that's not the case and frosh bigs is poor alignment for a deep run. But I see no reason why Rueck's approach prohibits the stars aligning for a title run at some point. It might take a little more luck than other programs (particularly since some are more willing to load class sizes and push for transfer out more than Rueck does), but all programs need some luck these days to align a deep run. And by the way, OSU already being an elite program recently isn't just my view, it's been a national view for a while now. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 6:38:41 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by beaverwbb fan on Nov 20, 2019 6:38:41 GMT -8
In 2020, I’m assuming Rueck offered Bueckers, Clark, Van Lith, Daniels, Goforth, and Samuel. I am unaware of any others, though not every player publicizes offers.
Louisville is typically a finalist at one point or another for 20-30 kids.
I don’t think anyone would argue Rueck isn’t more specific in who he is recruiting than Walz, who is throwing out offers to nearly every top 25 kid.
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 6:54:42 GMT -8
Post by sparty on Nov 20, 2019 6:54:42 GMT -8
I guess it depends on what you mean by "basically the same way". Geno has the budget to go see a lot of kids, decides who he likes, and has his folks keep track of 20 or so of them. A few of them stay up to his standards of behavior and play and he gives them an offer. That's 5-7 kiddos that he then expands or shrinks based on how he recruited the year before. Tara combs the world trying to find kiddos who will be able to get into Stanford and who can play bball etc. So her group of possible greatly expands and shrinks year to year. Graves and Walz make offers to everyone on the ESPN top 100 list and then chase down all of the bites. The difference is that with Nike money Graves can afford to send people overseas to find more possibles. I've seen claims that Walz had offers to 40 this recruiting season and Graves had 30. Don't know the exact numbers but they put out a LOT of offers. I can't tell but I'd guess SR started with about 10 offers this year and ended up with 2 so far. Which is about the same % as Graves got with his 30 offers. So in some ways they go about it the same. But it's not how I'd describe it. I have never heard Scott say he could not afford to recruit overseas. If so the AD department is not supporting one of the more successful programs. How many offers are put out there that we never hear of? As far as the fit discussion can a kid find a good fit at Western Oregon or Willamette? I can't keep track of the pac-12 myself and who does what. |
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Post by sparty on Nov 20, 2019 6:58:22 GMT -8
In 2020, I’m assuming Rueck offered Bueckers, Clark, Van Lith, Daniels, Goforth, and Samuel. I am unaware of any others, though not every player publicizes offers. Louisville is typically a finalist at one point or another for 20-30 kids. I don’t think anyone would argue Rueck isn’t more specific in who he is recruiting than Walz, who is throwing out offers to nearly every top 25 kid. I think he made offers to three of the 2020 Oregon players and Prince at one time but correct me if I am wrong. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 7:08:36 GMT -8
Post by beaverwbb fan on Nov 20, 2019 7:08:36 GMT -8
In 2020, I’m assuming Rueck offered Bueckers, Clark, Van Lith, Daniels, Goforth, and Samuel. I am unaware of any others, though not every player publicizes offers. Louisville is typically a finalist at one point or another for 20-30 kids. I don’t think anyone would argue Rueck isn’t more specific in who he is recruiting than Walz, who is throwing out offers to nearly every top 25 kid. I think he made offers to three of the 2020 Oregon players and Prince at one time but correct me if I am wrong. Forgot PaoPao, there was an offer reported there, Prince did receive one in 2018, I don't believe or see a reason why she was reoffered after transferring. Didn't offer Parrish, Dugalic, Watson, or Scherr. Oregon did not offer Goforth or Samuel. Also reports that we had offered the PG from Kansas who committed to Iowa State (name escapes me) and of course we offered Brink. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 9:17:20 GMT -8
Post by rmancarl on Nov 20, 2019 9:17:20 GMT -8
baseball1111, I'm not sure we are disagreeing much on this. All I am saying is that SR appears to emphasis the 'person' more than I see from most other programs. I could give you some specific instances but it's probably best to stay away from that in this forum. I've followed recruiting dating back to the Ralph Miller days and have subscribed to several services over these many years. There are obviously differences in style and approach for all coaches, even in staff from the same team.
There are just a few things you hear from the recruits themselves, that actually make me proud of the way SR recruits. Sure, coaches 'grill' recruits, but when those recruits say "he ask me questions other coaches don't ask", you know SR has some things he wants to know about that other coaches may not emphasize. I'm sure other coaches have important factors they care about as well, some that may not be that big a deal to SR.
For the most part, I agree with you. I do think that who ends up turning who down is not always black and white. Mik and the Stanford/Oregon State recruiting process would be a good example. Stanford both offered Mik a scholarship, and in a sense turned her down as well because she didn't accept the scholarship in the time frame they needed at the time. Teams may 'offer' a player, but how hard they end up chasing that player depends on both who else they may have landed (or have a chance to land), and how badly they really want that player.
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 11:02:08 GMT -8
Post by baseba1111 on Nov 20, 2019 11:02:08 GMT -8
UConn is based off of Boneyard. Maybe your wrong? Ducks and Louis are based off of Raoul. Maybe your wrong? You don't think the Ducks can afford to buy a few overseas tickets with $300,000 more than the Beav's? By Nike I meant Phil Knight. And yes, he does donate money to the U of O athletic department. I'm surprised this is news to you. UConn was $7 million in the 2016-17 season. Really not sure why you are insisting that everyone behaves and goes about everything the exact same way. Is this something you see a lot in life? LOL... comprehension issue? Where did I state that? I'm saying OSU isn't some "special" institution when it comes to recruiting and the system in place. Kids pick schools based on many factors not that SR stresses D more than some other elite school, hence they are not a "fit". WBB and baseball board seem to have some quizzical philosophies that OSU has some super unique program and family atmostphere that no one else can duplicate. It's just not true. OSU has risen to the elite ranks in both, but there a many teams that promote the same values and skills as OSU. We're bias, because we love OSU, but many times it goes way over the top. The baseball board more so that the WBB board. My numbers come directly from the Dept of Ed, 2017-2018... not a fan site. Although... they are self/school reported and it seems there is some fancy bookkeeping as many of the numbers seem "fishy"/weird?! PS- I know you may be one of the Nike/uncle Phil conspiracy theorists and think Oregon breaks rules on a consistent basis, but donations can't be used for any purpose including extra recruiting visits etc. Surprised you didn't know that? And, again, SR utilyzing the entire globe just as much as anyone out there. Money isn't the issue, but keep coming up with excuses to make the program seem inferior/little brother. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 11:40:49 GMT -8
Post by beaverwbb fan on Nov 20, 2019 11:40:49 GMT -8
UConn is based off of Boneyard. Maybe your wrong? Ducks and Louis are based off of Raoul. Maybe your wrong? You don't think the Ducks can afford to buy a few overseas tickets with $300,000 more than the Beav's? By Nike I meant Phil Knight. And yes, he does donate money to the U of O athletic department. I'm surprised this is news to you. UConn was $7 million in the 2016-17 season. Really not sure why you are insisting that everyone behaves and goes about everything the exact same way. Is this something you see a lot in life? LOL... comprehension issue? Where did I state that? I'm saying OSU isn't some "special" institution when it comes to recruiting and the system in place. Kids pick schools based on many factors not that SR stresses D more than some other elite school, hence they are not a "fit". WBB and baseball board seem to have some quizzical philosophies that OSU has some super unique program and family atmostphere that no one else can duplicate. It's just not true. OSU has risen to the elite ranks in both, but there a many teams that promote the same values and skills as OSU. We're bias, because we love OSU, but many times it goes way over the top. The baseball board more so that the WBB board. My numbers come directly from the Dept of Ed, 2017-2018... not a fan site. Although... they are self/school reported and it seems there is some fancy bookkeeping as many of the numbers seem "fishy"/weird?! PS- I know you may be one of the Nike/uncle Phil conspiracy theorists and think Oregon breaks rules on a consistent basis, but donations can't be used for any purpose including extra recruiting visits etc. Surprised you didn't know that? And, again, SR utilyzing the entire globe just as much as anyone out there. Money isn't the issue, but keep coming up with excuses to make the program seem inferior/little brother. Many different kids make decisions for different reasons. Kennedy and her family went very in-depth with her recruiting process and the Beavs checked all of Kennedy's boxes, so she is here and so far thriving. Very rarely does a recruit make a decision based off of one single factor. Maybe Hailey Van Lith wanted to be far away from home, maybe she was looking for a more uptempo system, maybe she preferred Walz's teams offensive style of play to Rueck's. I know Hailey's father was extremely involved and active in her recruiting. Walz had the privilege of coaching her this summer at U19, and she was a major piece for that team, so if she was comfortable in his system, it would make a lot of sense for her to choose Louisville. My point from the start was general consensus is HVL would do better in an uptempo system (like her four finalists) compared to a system like Rueck's. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 12:13:09 GMT -8
Post by baseba1111 on Nov 20, 2019 12:13:09 GMT -8
LOL... comprehension issue? Where did I state that? I'm saying OSU isn't some "special" institution when it comes to recruiting and the system in place. Kids pick schools based on many factors not that SR stresses D more than some other elite school, hence they are not a "fit". WBB and baseball board seem to have some quizzical philosophies that OSU has some super unique program and family atmostphere that no one else can duplicate. It's just not true. OSU has risen to the elite ranks in both, but there a many teams that promote the same values and skills as OSU. We're bias, because we love OSU, but many times it goes way over the top. The baseball board more so that the WBB board. My numbers come directly from the Dept of Ed, 2017-2018... not a fan site. Although... they are self/school reported and it seems there is some fancy bookkeeping as many of the numbers seem "fishy"/weird?! PS- I know you may be one of the Nike/uncle Phil conspiracy theorists and think Oregon breaks rules on a consistent basis, but donations can't be used for any purpose including extra recruiting visits etc. Surprised you didn't know that? And, again, SR utilyzing the entire globe just as much as anyone out there. Money isn't the issue, but keep coming up with excuses to make the program seem inferior/little brother. Many different kids make decisions for different reasons. Kennedy and her family went very in-depth with her recruiting process and the Beavs checked all of Kennedy's boxes, so she is here and so far thriving. Very rarely does a recruit make a decision based off of one single factor. Maybe Hailey Van Lith wanted to be far away from home, maybe she was looking for a more uptempo system, maybe she preferred Walz's teams offensive style of play to Rueck's. I know Hailey's father was extremely involved and active in her recruiting. Walz had the privilege of coaching her this summer at U19, and she was a major piece for that team, so if she was comfortable in his system, it would make a lot of sense for her to choose Louisville. My point from the start was general consensus is HVL would do better in an uptempo system (like her four finalists) compared to a system like Rueck's. Agreed for the many reasons... but uptempo isn't really a big difference lately. Once SR got an uptempo type PG/talent he has adapted. And, OSU plays in a much tougher conference once it starts: 2019-20: OSU 83.3... Louisville 75.7 (scoring margin +18.3) 2018-19: OSU 77.1... Louisville 79.8 (scoring margin +13.9) 2017-18: OSU 72.6... Louisville 76.7 (Destiny sits out... scoring margin +13.8) 2016-17: OSU 65.6... Louisville 74.6 (scoring margin +11.3) Since that 31-5 team, loss to FSU scoring 53 OSU has been much more uptempo and the type of recruit shows it was the direction he wanted to go. Just saying HVL would have been a perfect fit, especially with Kat's appeal not going through. HVL at the point and Aleah/Destiny on the wings with two mobile bigs... add the two signed. Yeah... she fit perfectly. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 13:00:31 GMT -8
Post by sparty on Nov 20, 2019 13:00:31 GMT -8
LOL... comprehension issue? Where did I state that? I'm saying OSU isn't some "special" institution when it comes to recruiting and the system in place. Kids pick schools based on many factors not that SR stresses D more than some other elite school, hence they are not a "fit". WBB and baseball board seem to have some quizzical philosophies that OSU has some super unique program and family atmostphere that no one else can duplicate. It's just not true. OSU has risen to the elite ranks in both, but there a many teams that promote the same values and skills as OSU. We're bias, because we love OSU, but many times it goes way over the top. The baseball board more so that the WBB board. My numbers come directly from the Dept of Ed, 2017-2018... not a fan site. Although... they are self/school reported and it seems there is some fancy bookkeeping as many of the numbers seem "fishy"/weird?! PS- I know you may be one of the Nike/uncle Phil conspiracy theorists and think Oregon breaks rules on a consistent basis, but donations can't be used for any purpose including extra recruiting visits etc. Surprised you didn't know that? And, again, SR utilyzing the entire globe just as much as anyone out there. Money isn't the issue, but keep coming up with excuses to make the program seem inferior/little brother. Many different kids make decisions for different reasons. Kennedy and her family went very in-depth with her recruiting process and the Beavs checked all of Kennedy's boxes, so she is here and so far thriving. Very rarely does a recruit make a decision based off of one single factor. Maybe Hailey Van Lith wanted to be far away from home, maybe she was looking for a more uptempo system, maybe she preferred Walz's teams offensive style of play to Rueck's. I know Hailey's father was extremely involved and active in her recruiting. Walz had the privilege of coaching her this summer at U19, and she was a major piece for that team, so if she was comfortable in his system, it would make a lot of sense for her to choose Louisville. My point from the start was general consensus is HVL would do better in an uptempo system (like her four finalists) compared to a system like Rueck's.Your last sentence is interesting. So how many athletes out there whether it be WBB, football or volleyball are attending schools where they are not meeting there full potential and are in the wrong system altogether. Example: If I was a outstanding receiver in football would I be at my maximum potential playing at Army or Baylor? Was Kristine Anigwe at Cal WBB in the right system or Moore at USC? |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 13:12:31 GMT -8
via mobile
sparty likes this
Post by beaverwbb fan on Nov 20, 2019 13:12:31 GMT -8
Many different kids make decisions for different reasons. Kennedy and her family went very in-depth with her recruiting process and the Beavs checked all of Kennedy's boxes, so she is here and so far thriving. Very rarely does a recruit make a decision based off of one single factor. Maybe Hailey Van Lith wanted to be far away from home, maybe she was looking for a more uptempo system, maybe she preferred Walz's teams offensive style of play to Rueck's. I know Hailey's father was extremely involved and active in her recruiting. Walz had the privilege of coaching her this summer at U19, and she was a major piece for that team, so if she was comfortable in his system, it would make a lot of sense for her to choose Louisville. My point from the start was general consensus is HVL would do better in an uptempo system (like her four finalists) compared to a system like Rueck's.Your last sentence is interesting. So how many athletes out there whether it be WBB, football or volleyball are attending schools where they are not meeting there full potential and are in the wrong system altogether. Example: If I was a outstanding receiver in football would I be at my maximum potential playing at Army or Baylor? Was Kristine Anigwe at Cal WBB in the right system or Moore at USC? Anigwe had a very strong senior season at Cal. She came in a stud, and was I believe NFOY. She averaged 20.5 PPG and 9.3 RPG as a freshman. She took a major step back as a junior, but then made a large jump forward as a senior, though her team was not great. I mean, as far as Moore, I don’t think USC is a great situation for anyone to be in judging off the words Tapley said when she left for ASU. Her style of play matched theres very well, she was a chaotic defender, very quick, and a great slasher. I think Mercedes Russell would have done a heck of a lot better at Oregon or Oregon State than she did at Tennessee, but that may be more due to the fact that Warlick was not a good coach or player developer than anything else. A player like Jo or Jelena is going to do much better in a system that does more in the half court than in transition. Their value goes way down IMO when you do a lot in transition. Jones, Brown, and Gulich are all extremely versatile. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 14:15:37 GMT -8
Post by bennyskid on Nov 20, 2019 14:15:37 GMT -8
The value of a Jelena goes UP exponentially on a team that loves transition. Transition baskets usually start with a rebound and a fast outlet - and who better to do that then the 6'9" girl. On the other end of the court, even the most up-tempo team is still a half-court team on at least half of the possessions.
But get this straight, people: SR LOVES tempo. Just listen to him in the press conference describe the run against Missouri State. But to play with tempo sucessfully, you either need great perimeter defense or a great big that can make the fast outlet.
Oh, wait . . . isn't that exactly what SR has always prioritized in his recruiting?!
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 14:18:40 GMT -8
Post by beaverwbb fan on Nov 20, 2019 14:18:40 GMT -8
The value of a Jelena goes UP exponentially on a team that loves transition. Transition baskets usually start with a rebound and a fast outlet - and who better to do that then the 6'9" girl. On the other end of the court, even the most up-tempo team is still a half-court team on at least half of the possessions. But get this straight, people: SR LOVES tempo. Just listen to him in the press conference describe the run against Missouri State. But to play with tempo sucessfully, you either need great perimeter defense or a great big that can make the fast outlet. Oh, wait . . . isn't that exactly what SR has always prioritized in his recruiting?! If you want to be playing 4 on 5 most of the time. You don't want to get in a running game with Jelena. |
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Defense
Nov 20, 2019 14:26:29 GMT -8
Post by Judge Smails on Nov 20, 2019 14:26:29 GMT -8
The value of a Jelena goes UP exponentially on a team that loves transition. Transition baskets usually start with a rebound and a fast outlet - and who better to do that then the 6'9" girl. On the other end of the court, even the most up-tempo team is still a half-court team on at least half of the possessions. But get this straight, people: SR LOVES tempo. Just listen to him in the press conference describe the run against Missouri State. But to play with tempo sucessfully, you either need great perimeter defense or a great big that can make the fast outlet. Oh, wait . . . isn't that exactly what SR has always prioritized in his recruiting?! If you want to be playing 4 on 5 most of the time. You don't want to get in a running game with Jelena. What? If you don't get the ball down the court quick enough to beat at least some of the defenders back, it is not a fast break. If you expect the rebounder that outlets the ball to be in on the fast break, your're nuts. The be able to trail the play, but they will not be in on the initial break. If it's 4 on 5, your going to pull it out and set up the half court offense. |
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