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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2019 14:02:27 GMT -8
I just think it is really sad how much our fans disrespect the best all around player in the Pac... We have gotten so far up our own asses over this coach's kid bulls%#t it is amazing. I have absolutely no doubt there are some issues around that. i have no doubt people make some comments. I have no doubt it makes for an interesting locker room. Hell, I have no doubt that maybe some players have left over it. But at the same time, we have a daily double-double player on our team (disclaimer: broad generalization not a statement of fact though through 5 games he is averaging a double double...) and he continues to meet fan scrutiny like nearly no other player I have ever seen. Guy is a f%#*in' baller leaving it all on the court every night. Just give him his due and stop having all the qualifiers and caveats. he has earned it. Is he GP? nope. His is a GPII level talent? Yes. is he an OSU "Great"? undoubtedly. That is a long list, and he is on it. But, he's not. I can name 4 off the top of my head that are better ALL around... but, I'll let you search then argue. Funny you mention all around but nothing about defense? And, of course stating an opinions on a player's weakness is disrespectful? Lol... agree with atown cuz he knows ballers! And, if TT is not voted POY again, must be a screw job? If he is he's truly the best all around? Yeah... Just the over the top drivel I was talking about. From very good to the "best all around". why you want to dwell and even fabricate negatives about a player who willl in all likelihood become the all time leading scorer in school history is beyond me. Of course you are welcome to hold other players in higher regard but why does that require you to take a current player down? Even if he is POY you won't change your tune, will you? How many of your fabled 4 were POY or had a similar honor? Go ahead and name names.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 21, 2019 14:04:50 GMT -8
But, he's not. I can name 4 off the top of my head that are better ALL around... but, I'll let you search then argue. Funny you mention all around but nothing about defense? And, of course stating an opinions on a player's weakness is disrespectful? Lol... agree with atown cuz he knows ballers! And, if TT is not voted POY again, must be a screw job? If he is he's truly the best all around? Yeah... Just the over the top drivel I was talking about. From very good to the "best all around". why you want to dwell and even fabricate negatives about a player who willl in all likelihood become the all time leading scorer in school history is beyond me. Of course you are welcome to hold other players in higher regard but why does that require you to take a current player down? Even if he is POY you won't change your tune, will you? How many of your fabled 4 were POY or had a similar honor? Go ahead and name names. There was a discussion... every player has negatives. Get over Jos! Here's the easiest, even though as stated I would not have voted him over TT... Nowell, UW, as a sophomore.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 21, 2019 14:28:50 GMT -8
I just think it is really sad how much our fans disrespect the best all around player in the Pac... We have gotten so far up our own asses over this coach's kid bulls%#t it is amazing. I have absolutely no doubt there are some issues around that. i have no doubt people make some comments. I have no doubt it makes for an interesting locker room. Hell, I have no doubt that maybe some players have left over it. But at the same time, we have a daily double-double player on our team (disclaimer: broad generalization not a statement of fact though through 5 games he is averaging a double double...) and he continues to meet fan scrutiny like nearly no other player I have ever seen. Guy is a f%#*in' baller leaving it all on the court every night. Just give him his due and stop having all the qualifiers and caveats. he has earned it. Is he GP? nope. His is a GPII level talent? Yes. is he an OSU "Great"? undoubtedly. That is a long list, and he is on it. But, he's not. I can name 4 off the top of my head that are better ALL around... but, I'll let you search then argue. Funny you mention all around but nothing about defense? And, of course stating an opinions on a player's weakness is disrespectful? Lol... agree with atown cuz he knows ballers! And, if TT is not voted POY again, must be a screw job? If he is he's truly the best all around? Yeah... Just the over the top drivel I was talking about. From very good to the "best all around". I'd sooner slam my own dick with a sledgehammer than argue anything with you... If you don't think he is the best all around player in the pac-12, awesome. i am sure you can exhaustively defend that position until the ultimate heat-death of the universe. Congratulations on working so hard to disapprove of our players, we are all lucky to have you as a fan.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 21, 2019 14:49:10 GMT -8
But, he's not. I can name 4 off the top of my head that are better ALL around... but, I'll let you search then argue. Funny you mention all around but nothing about defense? And, of course stating an opinions on a player's weakness is disrespectful? Lol... agree with atown cuz he knows ballers! And, if TT is not voted POY again, must be a screw job? If he is he's truly the best all around? Yeah... Just the over the top drivel I was talking about. From very good to the "best all around". I'd sooner slam my own dick with a sledgehammer than argue anything with you... If you don't think he is the best all around player in the pac-12, awesome. i am sure you can exhaustively defend that position until the ultimate heat-death of the universe. Congratulations on working so hard to disapprove of our players, we are all lucky to have you as a fan. Did it hurt? Or too easy to miss?
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Post by babeav on Nov 21, 2019 14:58:26 GMT -8
Talked to Franklin pre game, he is red shirting this year. Thanks for the info. Is he healthy? I'm not typically a fan of red shirting when healthy, but if he's OK with it then probably not a bad thing. With Tres and Hollins, not like he was going to be seeing much in the way of minutes this year. And it will help with class balance. I just realized the other day that the Beavers will be losing 5 or 6 scholarship players iafter next season. In Franklin's class there are 3 other freshmen, so basically moving him into the expected (if no transfers) 2-man class will be helpful. Healthy for sure, seems totally all right with the coaches decision since there is a logjam for minutes at the wing this year. This freshman class checks a lot of boxes, nice kids who can flat out play.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 21, 2019 15:16:06 GMT -8
If I had to pick one or the other I personally go GPII. I'll take the guy who makes everyone else better and can play shut down, game changing defense. Not a hater... just argue points that say he's more than he is... better than GP, best player in the Pac12 (I get POY is a vote that isn't always the best player IMHO... as I would have voted TT over Nowell last season?!) , or sure NBA player (even 1st rd draft choice has been mentioned). He's a good college player no doubt. But he has physical liabilities that keep from being a tier above. Namely he's not highly athletic... hence, at times a huge defensive liability in most matchups vs elite wings, nor particular adept vs PF that has post up game. GP II's numbers in the 2015-2016 tourney year don't come close to matching what TT so far is doing this year or even his career averages of course this is skewed for small sample size but still: GP II (2015-2016): GP GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% RPG AST STL BLK PPG
32 32 34.3 .486 .314 .642 7.8 5.0 2.5 0.5 16.0 TT (so far 2019-2020): GP GS MIN FG% 3P% FT% REB AST BLK STL PTS5 5 35.8 53.9 45.8 74.1 10.2 4.4 1.2 1.2 22.6
And for being the amazing defender we all remember GP II to be shouldnt he have more blocks per game and a LOT more steals per game than TT? And even with the crackdown on flopping i think Tres will still average one charge taken a game which i don't recall being a specialty of GP II. Let's remember that GP II was not a reliable shooter. That team made the tourney with a lot of help from a much younger TT. Not trying to demean GP II. Loved the guy's unselfish teamwork and demonic defense but if this team makes the tourney and i think they will, it will be much more because of TT than 2016 was about GP II. GPII and TT affect(ed) the game in different ways. I think they are the same caliber of player with TT taking it a notch higher due to consistently better offense and rebounding. But GPII was a guy that had excellent athleticism and truly put pressure on opposing players, offensively and defensively. he stretched the court in both ways. his ball handing, fast breaking, drives and importantly perimeter defenses were game changers. TT doesn't stretch the court like that. GPII was a big play guy. but TT affects the half court game, so to speak, and commands attention with the ball in his hand. He draws defenders and does a pretty good job of scoring or dishing. 4.4 apg so far, I am sure that will level off, but the kid dishes well and scores well. He isn't going full court and laying down a windmill dunk. He isn't teleporting from one spot to another to jump a pass and give us a monster jam. But on a possession to possession basis, TT influences the game to an equal, or possibly higher degree.
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Post by grad1973 on Nov 21, 2019 16:40:23 GMT -8
Jaquori along with Stevie and brother are all 2’s. Never should they be 1’s.
We still need a point guard! Same with the girls for that matter we have 5 girls who are 2’s. Or else we wouldn’t be turn over machines every game.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Nov 21, 2019 16:43:54 GMT -8
Jaquori along with Stevie and brother are all 2’s. Never should they be 1’s. We still need a point guard! Same with the girls for that matter we have 5 girls who are 2’s. Or else we wouldn’t be turn over machines every game. Gianni and Antoine are both point guards. They both handle the ball well and I personally still want them to see more minutes. It would not surprised me to see Gianni's minutes continue to grow as the season goes along similar to how Stevie and Tres' minutes increased their freshman seasons as well.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 21, 2019 17:35:24 GMT -8
Jaquori along with Stevie and brother are all 2’s. Never should they be 1’s. We still need a point guard! Same with the girls for that matter we have 5 girls who are 2’s. Or else we wouldn’t be turn over machines every game. The OSU men rank third in the Pac-12 in with a 1.5 assist/turnover ratio.
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 22, 2019 4:53:17 GMT -8
Wins like this look much better when viewed through the lens of yesterday’s Pac 12 losses to Coastal Carolina, Hofstra and Omaha.
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Post by mbabeav on Nov 22, 2019 16:50:40 GMT -8
How many of you are old enough, ahem, experienced in life enough, to remember Alan Tate. He was not the best athlete or the biggest scorer, or slamma jamma highlight reel material, but he was an extremely valuable part of a good Ralph Miller squad because he was tougher than nails (and perhaps because he was the flop master of the universe).
I've watched TT put his body in front of people, take the charge, disrupt an offense even if he can't play eraser defense. And he is going to end up being at or near the top of the offensive categories board in some rarified company. IMO, Ralph would have loved the guy. His name is going to be in the media guide probably until the heat death of the universe.
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 22, 2019 19:07:57 GMT -8
How many of you are old enough, ahem, experienced in life enough, to remember Alan Tate. He was not the best athlete or the biggest scorer, or slamma jamma highlight reel material, but he was an extremely valuable part of a good Ralph Miller squad because he was tougher than nails (and perhaps because he was the flop master of the universe). I've watched TT put his body in front of people, take the charge, disrupt an offense even if he can't play eraser defense. And he is going to end up being at or near the top of the offensive categories board in some rarified company. IMO, Ralph would have loved the guy. His name is going to be in the media guide probably until the heat death of the universe. Can't argue what can't be proven... not sure how valuable early... played 4 min, 4 min, 10 min/game his 1st three seasons. Did go 31 min/g his last year on league title team. Nothing to do with TT... but I'll say that during an impromptu get together in Surprise a couple(?) seasons back Jimmy said that most of today's players would never have lasted with Ralph. That I can believe. Interesting when you go back... 22-7, 15-3, 1st in Pac10... scored 60pts/g!! And 36 effing seasons ago... feeling old.
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Nov 22, 2019 19:15:23 GMT -8
Well many can't last here for various reasons. Generally it is playing time.On the debate I think both sides are partly wrong.
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Post by giantkillers83 on Nov 26, 2019 19:14:23 GMT -8
I do remember Tate. So ok........ Tres ..... is a good player. Best on this Beaver era ...... for what that’s worth. But he is NOT an alpha. He’s not. He can’t really generate his own shot. He’s not that fast. And his 3 is still suspect.
Having said that.... he’s a player. He does stuff to score and influence game. I have always thought him a bit of Charlie Sitton. He’s more athletic than Charlie, but not as good a shooter and not as fundamentally sound. He also does not have the supporting cast Charlie played with. Which means a lot.
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Post by shelby on Nov 26, 2019 21:24:23 GMT -8
I think he is awfully damn good at getting creative moves to the basket. I would say he is more than just a player - he reminds me a lot, of a more athletic Dave Cowens - and he had a pretty nice career. I know it was a different time but Tres is also a highly refined version of that. His three shooting, like anyone else, is hot and cold - but, if he gets his feet set , he is going to drop it. I do agree about the supporting cast , but - the one big difference is that we have substantially elevated our Center play .
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