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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 18, 2019 10:06:07 GMT -8
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Post by shelby on Aug 18, 2019 11:31:44 GMT -8
Crooked relationship, crooked program, crooked coach... uo is a cesspool ... just a matter of time !
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Post by seastape on Aug 18, 2019 11:57:54 GMT -8
It looks like Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour are all in the pay-to-play business, using cash to steer kids into "their" schools. We've known this for a while now but the evidence keeps mounting.
Questions: when are more criminal charges going to be filed against execs for those companies? Shouldn't companies lose their corporate shield of limited liability when they constantly engage in fraud and corruption? When are the college programs that are engaging in this process going to face real penalties--such as the death penalty? Or should we just acknowledge that the notion of "amateur" sports at the college level is a fraud and turn a blind eye to it, which has been happening for so long?
It looks like the greatest chunk of college basketball is corrupt. I can honestly say that I now almost don't care how many wins Tinkle gets at Oregon State; how are we supposed to compete when our enemies have the river of cash and standing to get the highlight athletes? At this point, I will root for Tinkle to do his best to do what he can but not be at all surprised when he can't recruit athletes like Bol Bol and Ayton because our alma mater does not have the resources to be as corrupt as the other schools.
Tinkle seems to be concerned that his athletes play hard and, more importantly, that they make the grade in the classroom. In my book, that guy stands far above the rest who are swimming in the sewers. I would just prefer that OSU stay out of (the sh)it and run a clean program. If we aren't...then who really cares about rooting for whatever program that has learned how to win the most with corruption?
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Post by qbeaver on Aug 18, 2019 13:38:59 GMT -8
Recruiting has been a dirty business since recruiting began...maybe when players can go straight from high school to the pro's in a couple years,,it will help the situation a little bit. Still will be ugly...
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Aug 18, 2019 13:56:57 GMT -8
I don't know if I'd call it "the greatest chunk of college ball", but arguably the greatest chunk of the most successful teams. I would hope the NCAA greatly punishes teams that have been party to paid athletes unless everyone is doing it.
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Post by ee1990 on Aug 18, 2019 14:39:53 GMT -8
I don't know if I'd call it "the greatest chunk of college ball", but arguably the greatest chunk of the most successful teams. I would hope the NCAA greatly punishes teams that have been party to paid athletes unless everyone is doing it. They didn't punish UNC for rampant academic fraud, which imo, is many fold worse than pay to play.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Aug 18, 2019 14:43:28 GMT -8
A criminal trial is the best possible outcome. Nike and the other shoe companies can no longer hide if they are subpoenaed to testify or provide records. It is extremely tough to compete if you follow the rules when almost everyone else in the conferencex doesn't.
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Post by maximumbeaver on Aug 18, 2019 17:37:28 GMT -8
Oregon has been cheating for years now but we have a history of cheating too that goes back to the Slats Gill and Ralph Miller era’s. Our most successful years.
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Post by zeroposter on Aug 18, 2019 19:02:22 GMT -8
Oregon has been cheating for years now but we have a history of cheating too that goes back to the Slats Gill and Ralph Miller era’s. Our most successful years. Ralph's transgressions would be minor, minor compared to today. Aki Hill's NCAA infractions would be considered laughable. Now the Slats Gill era was rampant with serious money being handed out in a lot of sports for lots of schools. On a real dollar basis, the Gill era may really outdo the money this article discusses.
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Post by mbabeav on Aug 19, 2019 11:30:21 GMT -8
Oregon has been cheating for years now but we have a history of cheating too that goes back to the Slats Gill and Ralph Miller era’s. Our most successful years. Ralph's transgressions would be minor, minor compared to today. Aki Hill's NCAA infractions would be considered laughable. Now the Slats Gill era was rampant with serious money being handed out in a lot of sports for lots of schools. On a real dollar basis, the Gill era may really outdo the money this article discusses. The West Coast teams were dollar machines back in the day - that apocryphal story about the reporter asking a Fusky player in the late 50's if he was excited about getting drafted into the NFL, and having him say something to the effect of "it's exciting, but I won't like the pay cut", or the story from (I believe) the 1905 Boregonian talking about the accusations of the then Oregon State (OAC?) football team being full of ringers and "Fall only" "students".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 11:37:42 GMT -8
Ralph's transgressions would be minor, minor compared to today. Aki Hill's NCAA infractions would be considered laughable. Now the Slats Gill era was rampant with serious money being handed out in a lot of sports for lots of schools. On a real dollar basis, the Gill era may really outdo the money this article discusses. The West Coast teams were dollar machines back in the day - that apocryphal story about the reporter asking a Fusky player in the late 50's if he was excited about getting drafted into the NFL, and having him say something to the effect of "it's exciting, but I won't like the pay cut", or the story from (I believe) the 1905 Boregonian talking about the accusations of the then Oregon State (OAC?) football team being full of ringers and "Fall only" "students". Let's not get off topic. The FBI doesnt care about 1905 but they should be all over the payola scandal going on with heinous cheaters at Oregon and Arizona. The money trail would reveal some crime if they took a casual look.
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Post by NativeBeav on Aug 19, 2019 12:30:22 GMT -8
The West Coast teams were dollar machines back in the day - that apocryphal story about the reporter asking a Fusky player in the late 50's if he was excited about getting drafted into the NFL, and having him say something to the effect of "it's exciting, but I won't like the pay cut", or the story from (I believe) the 1905 Boregonian talking about the accusations of the then Oregon State (OAC?) football team being full of ringers and "Fall only" "students". Let's not get off topic. The FBI doesnt care about 1905 but they should be all over the payola scandal going on with heinous cheaters at Oregon and Arizona. The money trail would reveal some crime if they took a casual look. Considering the lack of scrutiny at the highest levels of govt. in D.C., what the large list of bad actors were able in recent years to get away with, with merely a slap on the wrist - don't hold your breath. I really do not have any optimism they will find their backbone and balls on this one either. At the end of the day, most of these people in govt don't give a rat's behind about much of anything, except their pay, pension and perks. The three P's.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 19, 2019 14:07:45 GMT -8
It looks like Nike, Adidas, and Under Armour are all in the pay-to-play business, using cash to steer kids into "their" schools. We've known this for a while now but the evidence keeps mounting. Questions: when are more criminal charges going to be filed against execs for those companies? Shouldn't companies lose their corporate shield of limited liability when they constantly engage in fraud and corruption? When are the college programs that are engaging in this process going to face real penalties--such as the death penalty? Or should we just acknowledge that the notion of "amateur" sports at the college level is a fraud and turn a blind eye to it, which has been happening for so long? It looks like the greatest chunk of college basketball is corrupt. I can honestly say that I now almost don't care how many wins Tinkle gets at Oregon State; how are we supposed to compete when our enemies have the river of cash and standing to get the highlight athletes? At this point, I will root for Tinkle to do his best to do what he can but not be at all surprised when he can't recruit athletes like Bol Bol and Ayton because our alma mater does not have the resources to be as corrupt as the other schools. Tinkle seems to be concerned that his athletes play hard and, more importantly, that they make the grade in the classroom. In my book, that guy stands far above the rest who are swimming in the sewers. I would just prefer that OSU stay out of (the sh)it and run a clean program. If we aren't...then who really cares about rooting for whatever program that has learned how to win the most with corruption? I agree 100% with paragraphs 1, 3, and 4. Very well said. As for paragraph 2: I think you know some of the answers, as well as I do. Nike is actually shielded, to a certain extent, because the laws of the sovereign State of Oregon are historically very business-friendly. And, unlike California, which has rolled back a lot of business protections, most of the pre-1991 laws are still on the books. Adidas, as a German company, is also shielded to an even greater extent. You are talking about limited liability. To what end? As long as the companies have the money to settle or pay, limited liability considerations are generally inapplicable. Corporate shields generally only apply to entities with insufficient money to settle or pay. To the extent that we are talking about criminal fraud or corruption, limited liability considerations do not apply. If we are talking about civil corruption, as far as I know, there is no civil penalty. Civil fraud is actionable, but who has suffered recompensable damage of civil fraud in pay-for-play? The causation element would be very difficult, if not impossible to prove.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 19, 2019 14:12:26 GMT -8
I don't know if I'd call it "the greatest chunk of college ball", but arguably the greatest chunk of the most successful teams. I would hope the NCAA greatly punishes teams that have been party to paid athletes unless everyone is doing it. They didn't punish UNC for rampant academic fraud, which imo, is many fold worse than pay to play. I disagree. A bunch of unaccounted-for money flying around is not in anyone's best interest. Pay-for-play is a huge deal in many contexts, including amateurism and equity. Among the most specific is that pay-for-play is effectively stealing money from all of us, the American taxpayers. We need that money accounted for, so that it can go to build bridges and pay teachers, etc. Who does academic fraud hurt outside of the a college athletic context?
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Aug 19, 2019 14:18:45 GMT -8
Ralph's transgressions would be minor, minor compared to today. Aki Hill's NCAA infractions would be considered laughable. Now the Slats Gill era was rampant with serious money being handed out in a lot of sports for lots of schools. On a real dollar basis, the Gill era may really outdo the money this article discusses. The West Coast teams were dollar machines back in the day - that apocryphal story about the reporter asking a Fusky player in the late 50's if he was excited about getting drafted into the NFL, and having him say something to the effect of "it's exciting, but I won't like the pay cut", or the story from (I believe) the 1905 Boregonian talking about the accusations of the then Oregon State (OAC?) football team being full of ringers and "Fall only" "students". 1905? Or 1950? Back before the 1920s, ringers and "Fall only" "students" were rampant. The Pacific Coast Conference had problems, largely because it tried to join with the Ivy League and the service academies and rigidly adhere to amateurism. No athletic scholarships. Oregon State cheated, but it was a drop in the bucket compared to what California, Oregon, UCLA, USC, and Washington were doing. The Beavers' achievements in the 1930-1959 time period cannot be understated, because they almost always were facing a huge paid-for talent disparity. After the Pacific Coast Conference hemorrhaged apart, you saw Oregon State achieve some of its greatest successes before the political and social upheaval of the late 1960s wiped out the Beavers in football.
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