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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 30, 2019 19:17:59 GMT -8
Folks have short memories. I heard the same thing last year about this year's bigs.
We will have bigs... but, all are very raw and some are freshman. Development of bigs takes longer, and the depth will help but there is not top 5 talent at OSU. All you have to do is watch other teams. There is a large disparity in overall athletic talent and depth in the top 5-7 teams. Pre-season close games are nice to talk about, but seeing those type of quality teams in March is far different.
Next year's class, and Kat (other teams improve in the off season too) don't get us to what OSU saw in Louisville.
The great news is that we have a great class, coaching staff, and support. But, to just state we're at the level of top 5 talent (not even a top 5 recruiting class!) and should be Final 4 bound is just funny.
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Post by beavsteve on Mar 30, 2019 20:01:22 GMT -8
Folks have short memories. I heard the same thing last year about this year's bigs. We will have bigs... but, all are very raw and some are freshman. Development of bigs takes longer, and the depth will help but there is not top 5 talent at OSU. All you have to do is watch other teams. There is a large disparity in overall athletic talent and depth in the top 5-7 teams. Pre-season close games stee nice to talk about, but seeing those type of quality teams in March is far different. Next year's class, and Kat (other teams improve in the off season too) don't get us to what OSU saw in Louisville. The great news is that we have a great class, coaching staff, and support. But, to just state we're at the level of top 5 talent (not even a top 5 recruiting class!) and should be Final 4 bound is just funny. Thickhead suggested we'd have a top-5 program. He didn't say we had the athleticism of a current top-5 team, as you seem to have interpreted him. I agree with you... and I think most would... that our team does not have athletes on a par with Louisville. However, Rueck has made us a top-10 program with lesser talent and excellent coaching. It is not unreasonable, or funny, to suggest that his coaching with an upgrade in our front-line might take us to the top 5.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 30, 2019 20:59:01 GMT -8
Folks have short memories. I heard the same thing last year about this year's bigs. We will have bigs... but, all are very raw and some are freshman. Development of bigs takes longer, and the depth will help but there is not top 5 talent at OSU. All you have to do is watch other teams. There is a large disparity in overall athletic talent and depth in the top 5-7 teams. Pre-season close games stee nice to talk about, but seeing those type of quality teams in March is far different. Next year's class, and Kat (other teams improve in the off season too) don't get us to what OSU saw in Louisville. The great news is that we have a great class, coaching staff, and support. But, to just state we're at the level of top 5 talent (not even a top 5 recruiting class!) and should be Final 4 bound is just funny. Thickhead suggested we'd have a top-5 program. He didn't say we had the athleticism of a current top-5 team, as you seem to have interpreted him. I agree with you... and I think most would... that our team does not have athletes on a par with Louisville. However, Rueck has made us a top-10 program with lesser talent and excellent coaching. It is not unreasonable, or funny, to suggest that his coaching with an upgrade in our front-line might take us to the top 5. I interpret "raw talent of a top 5 program" to mean just that. Based on "raw" we do not have that talent and will require SR to do his usual "magic". But, as we witnessed this year, not even Scott can always get that to happen. So, "funny" simply implies the biased short memory syndrome. The Beavers will be good but very young in key spots... Italy will really help. But, to have multiple posts over the course of the last week or more stating "we should be" a Top 5 or Final 4 team is way over the skies... and truly underestimates other top tier programs. I think OSU will be good, but it takes a lot of things going right to even get to the Sweet 16. IMHO... that type of leap would take... - two of the incoming class being starter type caliber by game 13... not PM or JS of this year - Kat to return to form, with no lingering physical affects - PM and AA have to both be available and effective - Destiny needs to get in shape. Her hyper frenetic style doesn't fit but Scott will mesh that better. However, I believe her increased bench time and late season slide was part her fitness level. Mik will be Mik, but we need more people to shoulder the load in crunch time... need more options, more versatility.
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Post by beaveragain on Mar 30, 2019 22:43:19 GMT -8
I was going to answer some of this, but I'll make it short and sweet. STFU about Destiny and her "fitness"!
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Post by ricke71 on Mar 30, 2019 22:58:30 GMT -8
Too many missing pieces on this team to get deeper in the tourney. It's a testament to the program that Scott has built that we feel disappointed by not getting beyond the sweet 16. Nevertheless, this was a good season considering the injuries and shooting problems down the stretch. They'll be better next year. Let's hope one of the incoming players is an immediate impact player at the 5. Aquino, Jones, or Morris--somebody has to be more than a bit player. Tudor moves over to take KT Mac's starting spot. Let's hope her knee is 100%. Corosdale gets pushed at the 4 for the starting job by Kennedy Brown...maybe. The main thing is to have some pieces in place to take advantage of Pivec's senior year. Pivec will be a force in the Pac-12 next year and hopefully some others will have their shoulders to the wheel. Pivec will leave a Gulich-sized hole on the team when she graduates. Time to get 'er done.
That said, the team did about all that could be hoped for this year, and are to be congratulated for the time and effort they put in. Onward.
"Corosdale gets pushed at the 4 for the starting job by Kennedy Brown...maybe" - I personally think that the key word there is "maybe". And that it's a l-o-o-o-o-n-g shot maybe. Corosdale as a 2-year starting Junior, compared to Brown as a Freshman, in Rueck's history of coaching re: freshmen / upper class athletes, would seemingly make that unlikely. Another indicator: I've noticed SR rewards those whom he believes in strongly, with huge minutes. Last year it was Katie Mac....she played several 40 minute games. Rueck wanted her on the floor ALL of the time. Late this season it is Corosdale, who has played every second of the last 3 games of this season (no other player did that). Given her 6'6" height, I sure hope they can find a way to get Brown to play "5"...including as a starter, rather than a "4". True enuf - it'll be Pivec's 'team' next year.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 31, 2019 0:11:37 GMT -8
I was going to answer some of this, but I'll make it short and sweet. STFU about Destiny and her "fitness"! Sorry Dad... but, NO
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 1:19:24 GMT -8
baseba1111 said "- Kat to return to form, with no lingering physical affects" Her type of injury is usually no return for 12 months (not within), which puts her back available to play mid next season. That frees up some time early in the season but her return will add the fire power we missed late in the season - so i wish her a strong and healthy return.
ricke71 commented "Another indicator: I've noticed SR rewards those whom he believes in strongly, with huge minutes. Last year it was Katie Mac....she played several 40 minute games. Rueck wanted her on the floor ALL of the time." AND that cost us! She is an amazing young lady and a great team mate but SR cost himself points with her ineffective offense and often at times weak D in those last few games and I'm still shaking my head why??
baseba1111 you bang on about Destiny's fitness and your comment "- Destiny needs to get in shape. Her hyper frenetic style doesn't fit but Scott will mesh that better." 2 things; (1) can you clarify how she needs to get in to shape. i kind of agree with beaveragain on this one. and (2) Her frenetic style needs to be released not controlled, that is Scott's real challenge, letting go of a bit of control and maybe trusting her more. She (and others at times) looked too worried about making the right play(book) when sometimes instinct is better, which created slow over controlled ineffective plays and players second guessing their shots. Our slow style all of the time doesn't work against elite athletic teams. During the last game in the last qtr the ESPN commentators made a comment that "coach SR needs to change his play up a bit here, he needs to get some fast break points and press and transition here or he will not make any ground". Enter Destiny and your comment.
I made a comment a little while ago about SR's love affair with the 3 (nothing wrong with it unless it's all eggs in one basket). IMO to go deep in March the coaching team need more flow/motion plans along side the 6 inch playbook that relies mostly on an amazing post player and amazing 3pt shooters. I don't think restricting players like Destiny is the answer, incorporating her style more is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 5:36:19 GMT -8
Folks have short memories. I heard the same thing last year about this year's bigs. We will have bigs... but, all are very raw and some are freshman. Development of bigs takes longer, and the depth will help but there is not top 5 talent at OSU. All you have to do is watch other teams. There is a large disparity in overall athletic talent and depth in the top 5-7 teams. Pre-season close games are nice to talk about, but seeing those type of quality teams in March is far different. Next year's class, and Kat (other teams improve in the off season too) don't get us to what OSU saw in Louisville. The great news is that we have a great class, coaching staff, and support. But, to just state we're at the level of top 5 talent (not even a top 5 recruiting class!) and should be Final 4 bound is just funny. I love how BB1111 has found the idea that we have the top 5 talent laughable ("funny"). In basketball, some aspects of "talent" are: height, strength, reach. Otherwise, you have to regard virtually all female players taller than 6'8" as less talented than thickhead, since even the 20-year-old thickhead had better quickness, speed, and ball-handling skill than virtually all of them. So does Louisville really have players with better talent? They may have players who run faster, jump higher, and shoot better, but is that enough? There's no doubt they are better athletes, but in basketball the metrics we use to measure "basketball talent" can go beyond simple athleticism. In basketball, we give special credit to height and reach. Grymek, I'm sure we'd agree, had negligible athleticism: Any average person you find on the street could catch a ball better and anticipate better than she could, and yet she somehow found her way onto a basketball court and, in Rueck's eyes at least, provided real benefit to the team. So now just look at next year: We have two 6'9" players (if Aquino is actually allowed contact and Mitrovic actually signs) who not only have better height and reach than Grymek, but who have at least average to better than average athleticism. That combination of height and (even average) athleticism makes both Aquino and Mitrovic top-flight "talent" in the college basketball world. They can catch a lob pass, get a clean shot off, and rebound at a high level for no other reason than that they possess that "talent". BB+1s has stated in no uncertain terms that a prediction that we should be final 4 bound (even though that's not exactly what I said) is "funny". That is, implicitly, a very bold prediction about next year. This year we were rated as high a 7th or 8th when we had Kat Tudor on the floor. While that rating might have been too high, it still shows that we were top-10 or close to top-10 material. We beat Oregon and SCar and were competitive with Notre Dame. Assuming we get a healthy Kat back next season and the 4 new players can all play, is it really "laughable" that to say we might be the top 5 nationally? Brown comes in as a McDonald's All-American. She is an upgrade on Katie McWilliams, as she has better athletic skills and is 4" taller. Our biggest deficiency this season was an inside presence: Grymek lacked athleticism and MW was too short and couldn't jump more than about 6" (or so it seemed). Aquino and Mitrovic are drop-in upgrades for Grymek, almost from the word "go", and probably Jones, with her 7'2" wingspan could out-rebound and out-shoot Grymek. BB1 at this point better be hopeful that OSU is not a top 5 team next year, because otherwise he'll have to apologize to thickhead, or at least admit he was wrong. And there's nothing worse in the known universe than having to admit that a thickhead got it right and you didn't.
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Post by wbosh15 on Mar 31, 2019 7:20:17 GMT -8
One note the the return for Kat. ACL recover not a 1 yaear recover. Especially in a D1 athlete, it is usual 6-8 months. I wouldn’t push it,and I doubt the team would let her play, but there is a very good chance she will be medically cleared before the Italy trip.
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Post by jegerklog on Mar 31, 2019 8:21:29 GMT -8
SR seems to put more emphasis on ability to be part of a disciplined system than athletic ability.
I view next year with even more uncertainty than ever. Firstly, the team has to rediscover outside shooting. Otherwise, the defense can sag and clog up the middle in which case driving to the basket also becomes difficult. Secondly, we will have little experience under the basket except for Maddie and Jenessa who understandably have difficulty against taller posts. Trish is familiar with the system but has very little on court experience. Some believe that tall players have more difficulty transitioning to college than guards. In any event, it is not clear to me that the problem under the basket will be solved next year, even though personally I thought Trish looked really promising and the incoming freshman have pretty good credentials.
If we do not make good progress on these two issues, I think we will have difficulty in the PAC12 where so many teams are very competitive and nobody can be overlooked, even Washington. If we make good progress in these two areas, I think we will surprise many. In any event, next year will be very interesting.
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osu82
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Post by osu82 on Mar 31, 2019 8:23:07 GMT -8
One note the the return for Kat. ACL recover not a 1 yaear recover. Especially in a D1 athlete, it is usual 6-8 months. I wouldn’t push it,and I doubt the team would let her play, but there is a very good chance she will be medically cleared before the Italy trip. Let's hope so. I remember Ben Kone.
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Post by baseba1111 on Mar 31, 2019 9:45:22 GMT -8
Folks have short memories. I heard the same thing last year about this year's bigs. We will have bigs... but, all are very raw and some are freshman. Development of bigs takes longer, and the depth will help but there is not top 5 talent at OSU. All you have to do is watch other teams. There is a large disparity in overall athletic talent and depth in the top 5-7 teams. Pre-season close games are nice to talk about, but seeing those type of quality teams in March is far different. Next year's class, and Kat (other teams improve in the off season too) don't get us to what OSU saw in Louisville. The great news is that we have a great class, coaching staff, and support. But, to just state we're at the level of top 5 talent (not even a top 5 recruiting class!) and should be Final 4 bound is just funny. I love how BB1111 has found the idea that we have the top 5 talent laughable ("funny"). In basketball, some aspects of "talent" are: height, strength, reach. Otherwise, you have to regard virtually all female players taller than 6'8" as less talented than thickhead, since even the 20-year-old thickhead had better quickness, speed, and ball-handling skill than virtually all of them. So does Louisville really have players with better talent? They may have players who run faster, jump higher, and shoot better, but is that enough? There's no doubt they are better athletes, but in basketball the metrics we use to measure "basketball talent" can go beyond simple athleticism. In basketball, we give special credit to height and reach. Grymek, I'm sure we'd agree, had negligible athleticism: Any average person you find on the street could catch a ball better and anticipate better than she could, and yet she somehow found her way onto a basketball court and, in Rueck's eyes at least, provided real benefit to the team. So now just look at next year: We have two 6'9" players (if Aquino is actually allowed contact and Mitrovic actually signs) who not only have better height and reach than Grymek, but who have at least average to better than average athleticism. That combination of height and (even average) athleticism makes both Aquino and Mitrovic top-flight "talent" in the college basketball world. They can catch a lob pass, get a clean shot off, and rebound at a high level for no other reason than that they possess that "talent". BB+1s has stated in no uncertain terms that a prediction that we should be final 4 bound (even though that's not exactly what I said) is "funny". That is, implicitly, a very bold prediction about next year. This year we were rated as high a 7th or 8th when we had Kat Tudor on the floor. While that rating might have been too high, it still shows that we were top-10 or close to top-10 material. We beat Oregon and SCar and were competitive with Notre Dame. Assuming we get a healthy Kat back next season and the 4 new players can all play, is it really "laughable" that to say we might be the top 5 nationally? Brown comes in as a McDonald's All-American. She is an upgrade on Katie McWilliams, as she has better athletic skills and is 4" taller. Our biggest deficiency this season was an inside presence: Grymek lacked athleticism and MW was too short and couldn't jump more than about 6" (or so it seemed). Aquino and Mitrovic are drop-in upgrades for Grymek, almost from the word "go", and probably Jones, with her 7'2" wingspan could out-rebound and out-shoot Grymek. BB1 at this point better be hopeful that OSU is not a top 5 team next year, because otherwise he'll have to apologize to thickhead, or at least admit he was wrong. And there's nothing worse in the known universe than having to admit that a thickhead got it right and you didn't. I'll just comment... Physical attributes aren't "talents"... a player can have all the physical attributes you name and very little "talent". Athletic abilities can be enhanced by physical attributes, but they are not the same. Hence, the usage of the word "raw", as in untapped, undeveloped, and potential to improve. Not only in athletic abilities, but strength, conditioning, acclimating to D1 play, learning a complex system and scheme. Physical attributes again are just that... they don't necessarily portend the talent to be a good, very good, elite D1 player.
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Post by wbosh15 on Mar 31, 2019 11:11:58 GMT -8
One note the the return for Kat. ACL recover not a 1 yaear recover. Especially in a D1 athlete, it is usual 6-8 months. I wouldn’t push it,and I doubt the team would let her play, but there is a very good chance she will be medically cleared before the Italy trip. Let's hope so. I remember Ben Kone. I understand that, but remember his injury happened in high school. Totally different story with a D1 training and medical staff handling her care.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Mar 31, 2019 12:23:04 GMT -8
One note the the return for Kat. ACL recover not a 1 yaear recover. Especially in a D1 athlete, it is usual 6-8 months. I wouldn’t push it,and I doubt the team would let her play, but there is a very good chance she will be medically cleared before the Italy trip. No need for her to play in Italy. Enjoy the trip, keep doing rehab, go through practice drills, but don't risk re-injury in meaningless games. You may be "physically" recovered and cleared to play in 7-9 months after ACL reconstruction, but I think the total recovery - full strength, trust in the knee, etc. - is about an 18-month process. At least that has been my experience talking to players who have undergone this surgery.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 12:42:40 GMT -8
I love how BB1111 has found the idea that we have the top 5 talent laughable ("funny"). In basketball, some aspects of "talent" are: height, strength, reach. Otherwise, you have to regard virtually all female players taller than 6'8" as less talented than thickhead, since even the 20-year-old thickhead had better quickness, speed, and ball-handling skill than virtually all of them. So does Louisville really have players with better talent? They may have players who run faster, jump higher, and shoot better, but is that enough? There's no doubt they are better athletes, but in basketball the metrics we use to measure "basketball talent" can go beyond simple athleticism. In basketball, we give special credit to height and reach. Grymek, I'm sure we'd agree, had negligible athleticism: Any average person you find on the street could catch a ball better and anticipate better than she could, and yet she somehow found her way onto a basketball court and, in Rueck's eyes at least, provided real benefit to the team. So now just look at next year: We have two 6'9" players (if Aquino is actually allowed contact and Mitrovic actually signs) who not only have better height and reach than Grymek, but who have at least average to better than average athleticism. That combination of height and (even average) athleticism makes both Aquino and Mitrovic top-flight "talent" in the college basketball world. They can catch a lob pass, get a clean shot off, and rebound at a high level for no other reason than that they possess that "talent". BB+1s has stated in no uncertain terms that a prediction that we should be final 4 bound (even though that's not exactly what I said) is "funny". That is, implicitly, a very bold prediction about next year. This year we were rated as high a 7th or 8th when we had Kat Tudor on the floor. While that rating might have been too high, it still shows that we were top-10 or close to top-10 material. We beat Oregon and SCar and were competitive with Notre Dame. Assuming we get a healthy Kat back next season and the 4 new players can all play, is it really "laughable" that to say we might be the top 5 nationally? Brown comes in as a McDonald's All-American. She is an upgrade on Katie McWilliams, as she has better athletic skills and is 4" taller. Our biggest deficiency this season was an inside presence: Grymek lacked athleticism and MW was too short and couldn't jump more than about 6" (or so it seemed). Aquino and Mitrovic are drop-in upgrades for Grymek, almost from the word "go", and probably Jones, with her 7'2" wingspan could out-rebound and out-shoot Grymek. BB1 at this point better be hopeful that OSU is not a top 5 team next year, because otherwise he'll have to apologize to thickhead, or at least admit he was wrong. And there's nothing worse in the known universe than having to admit that a thickhead got it right and you didn't. I'll just comment... Physical attributes aren't "talents"... a player can have all the physical attributes you name and very little "talent". Athletic abilities can be enhanced by physical attributes, but they are not the same. Hence, the usage of the word "raw", as in untapped, undeveloped, and potential to improve. Not only in athletic abilities, but strength, conditioning, acclimating to D1 play, learning a complex system and scheme. Physical attributes again are just that... they don't necessarily portend the talent to be a good, very good, elite D1 player. That's good to hear. So thickhead himself is as "talented" as all the female basketball players over 6'8" who have ever played the game because their height does not count as a measure of talent. So we have to judge based on my terrific (by female standards) 20-year old endurance, speed, vertical jump, eye-hand coordination, etc. When you discount the height of any of the really tall female players in college BB history and judge based on all other measures, I guess I'm looking pretty elite in the area of talent. One might conclude from your absurd discounting of "talent" that there ARE no talented tall female players: They've just that a good height "attribute" (not a talent you say), and that's why they're prized by WNBA teams. Okay, I getcha. Wait, wait, I got that wrong! Vertical, speed, endurance and all that stuff are physical "attributes"! Well that creates a problem, since I guess we really have to discount all THOSE, too! So what's it down to? The mental aspect of the game? Is THAT how we measure "talent"? But that would mean most of those Louisville players are really pretty average in terms of "talent", since it seems that their physical attributes that are really a key ingredient to what elevates them into the elite. Golly, I'm so confused now. I'm almost drawn into thinking that there IS no such thing as talent. I've just been fooled by all those physical attributes.
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