bill82
Freshman
OSU's 10,157th Best Donor
Posts: 970
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Post by bill82 on Nov 26, 2018 17:16:58 GMT -8
“I am not saying you are wrong, just looking for clarification.... why is this a bad thing?”
WT has indicated it is a bad sign that he is constantly yelling. He has said it means the players are not communicating on the court. When he talked about the PG recruit we just signed he called out how the signed is a vocal leader on the court.
But, you could be right. Maybe if he stopped yelling it would be so strange the players might take it as him quitting on them.
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Post by vhalum92 on Nov 26, 2018 17:23:55 GMT -8
I'm glad we won. I didn't get to watch the game/wish it was televised on something like the Pac 12 channel.
But from the write up it sounded like a gritty road win.
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Post by Werebeaver on Nov 26, 2018 17:49:45 GMT -8
You'd never know from the majority of post game comments in the thread. I am pretty sure I have never seen a group of more bitter malcontents in the face of victory than I have seen here. "We won, but Long Beach State sucks and we suck and we are gonna suck and all the Pac-12 is gonna kick our dicks in... Fire Tinkle" For f%#*s sake... A win is a win is a win is a win. Period. we are 5-1. 3-1 on the road. Why cannot people be happy for wins? it is mind-numbing and depressing. I understand the state of Oregon State sports is not overly positive in many programs. The general mood is grumpy... But the role of a fan is to be a hopelessly naive optimist. Tinkle has had one disaster year, and 4 other average years. It ain't like we are in Anderpants territory here. Lets take a deep breath and just enjoy winning close games instead of losing them. ENJOY THE VICTORY! We have enough negativity around the various Men's sports program that we can't be piling on with more of it despite a win! I thought the defense looked suspect and the offense lacked a floor general. WT is still yelling at his players all game long. But that is my opinion. I read others that thought the defense was solid and the offense was more in control. I like reading the perspective of others. Next game I'll try and see what they see. If the board was full of WT boosters who thought every game was brilliantly played and that we were going to win all future games it would be a pretty boring site. The negativity you cite comes from the teams playing poorly - not the fans being pessimists. “WT is still yelling at his players all game long.” Oh dear me!
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 26, 2018 18:17:50 GMT -8
I thought the defense looked suspect and the offense lacked a floor general. WT is still yelling at his players all game long. But that is my opinion. I read others that thought the defense was solid and the offense was more in control. I like reading the perspective of others. Next game I'll try and see what they see. If the board was full of WT boosters who thought every game was brilliantly played and that we were going to win all future games it would be a pretty boring site. The negativity you cite comes from the teams playing poorly - not the fans being pessimists. “WT is still yelling at his players all game long.” Oh dear me! Somewhere......Bobby Knight is laughing.
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Post by albanianbeav on Nov 26, 2018 19:31:40 GMT -8
I enjoy reading the different perspectives whether it is positive or negative. I think the negative comments come from high expectations. There is obvious talent on this team, they just don’t always play in a way that makes them a great team, yet. I am optimistic they will pull it together. Based on the comments on this thread, I am guessing some of you are seeing more positive signs I am not seeing or that were not already covered in the LBSt thread. I for one (can’t speak for blocheese or baseba11) would love to hear what those are. And I already know we are 5-1 and we won on the road, which I think is great.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 26, 2018 23:28:14 GMT -8
“I am not saying you are wrong, just looking for clarification.... why is this a bad thing?” WT has indicated it is a bad sign that he is constantly yelling. He has said it means the players are not communicating on the court. When he talked about the PG recruit we just signed he called out how the signed is a vocal leader on the court. But, you could be right. Maybe if he stopped yelling it would be so strange the players might take it as him quitting on them. It isn't that he is yelling. He has ALWAYS yelled from day one. Coach Sweaty Teddy out there. Dude is an energetic sideline coach and always has been. It is what he HAS to yell that matters.
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 27, 2018 7:41:45 GMT -8
I enjoy reading the different perspectives whether it is positive or negative. I think the negative comments come from high expectations. There is obvious talent on this team, they just don’t always play in a way that makes them a great team, yet. I am optimistic they will pull it together. Based on the comments on this thread, I am guessing some of you are seeing more positive signs I am not seeing or that were not already covered in the LBSt thread. I for one (can’t speak for blocheese or baseba11) would love to hear what those are. And I already know we are 5-1 and we won on the road, which I think is great. I don't consider myself overly negative when it comes to Beavers basketball (not in the fire Tinkle camp or against the coaches' sons seeing plenty of playing time) and I'm happy the Beavs won. But it was not the kind of performance for which I was looking. Going into the season, my expectations (hope) for this team were at least .500 in the league and an NCAA berth (or at worst an NIT invite). I was basing this upon having two senior starters as well as a red-shirt junior starter, the hope that the three sophomores would take a nice step forward, and a decent recruiting class. I knew not having Drew would be a loss, but I was hopeful Big G and the new big men would be able to offset that loss. After several games with Kelley stepping up nicely, I was even more hopeful. I was hoping we'd beat Missouri, but thought coming out of that tourney with two wins was another positive step. And then came the Long Beach State game. Yes they came away with a victory on the road, but against a team that KenPom has rated 215. Yes they showed some scrappiness, but I was disappointed that it was about the best thing you can take away from the win. That they beat a team that they lost to on a neutral court last year isn't as big plus for me as it seems to be for others as I expect them to be better than last year. I'm still hopeful for the season, but to reach the expectations I have for this year's team they will likely need at least a couple of conference road wins. Using KenPom's ratings the two most likely would be Utah and Wash. St. Right now using KenPom's ratings, Wash. St. is rated 43 spots ahead of Beach and Utah is rated 107 higher. The performance against Beach doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me that we can win those two road games. The original poster said the role of a fan is to be naively optimistic. To me optimism speaks of the future and the performance in that victory didn't increase mine -- and saying a win is a win is a win doesn't either. Despite that I am still optimistic and have high hopes for this team. I will continue to watch and cheer on the Beavers in front of my TV. But I refuse to be overjoyed if the best this year's men's basketball team can do is stay out of "Anderpants territory."
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 27, 2018 8:06:32 GMT -8
I enjoy reading the different perspectives whether it is positive or negative. I think the negative comments come from high expectations. There is obvious talent on this team, they just don’t always play in a way that makes them a great team, yet. I am optimistic they will pull it together. Based on the comments on this thread, I am guessing some of you are seeing more positive signs I am not seeing or that were not already covered in the LBSt thread. I for one (can’t speak for blocheese or baseba11) would love to hear what those are. And I already know we are 5-1 and we won on the road, which I think is great. I don't consider myself overly negative when it comes to Beavers basketball (not in the fire Tinkle camp or against the coaches' sons seeing plenty of playing time) and I'm happy the Beavs won. But it was not the kind of performance for which I was looking. Going into the season, my expectations (hope) for this team were at least .500 in the league and an NCAA berth (or at worst an NIT invite). I was basing this upon having two senior starters as well as a red-shirt junior starter, the hope that the three sophomores would take a nice step forward, and a decent recruiting class. I knew not having Drew would be a loss, but I was hopeful Big G and the new big men would be able to offset that loss. After several games with Kelley stepping up nicely, I was even more hopeful. I was hoping we'd beat Missouri, but thought coming out of that tourney with two wins was another positive step. And then came the Long Beach State game. Yes they came away with a victory on the road, but against a team that KenPom has rated 215. Yes they showed some scrappiness, but I was disappointed that it was about the best thing you can take away from the win. That they beat a team that they lost to on a neutral court last year isn't as big plus for me as it seems to be for others as I expect them to be better than last year. I'm still hopeful for the season, but to reach the expectations I have for this year's team they will likely need at least a couple of conference road wins. Using KenPom's ratings the two most likely would be Utah and Wash. St. Right now using KenPom's ratings, Wash. St. is rated 43 spots ahead of Beach and Utah is rated 107 higher. The performance against Beach doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me that we can win those two road games. The original poster said the role of a fan is to be naively optimistic. To me optimism speaks of the future and the performance in that victory didn't increase mine -- and saying a win is a win is a win doesn't either. Despite that I am still optimistic and have high hopes for this team. I will continue to watch and cheer on the Beavers in front of my TV. But I refuse to be overjoyed if the best this year's men's basketball team can do is stay out of "Anderpants territory." I'll agree with you that they did not look great against the Beach. However, giving any credence to KenPom ratings after 6 games in the season in order to predict the future is as useless as the current Net ratings that just came out showing Ohio St. as #1.
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Post by obf on Nov 27, 2018 8:22:21 GMT -8
“I am not saying you are wrong, just looking for clarification.... why is this a bad thing?” WT has indicated it is a bad sign that he is constantly yelling. He has said it means the players are not communicating on the court. When he talked about the PG recruit we just signed he called out how the signed is a vocal leader on the court. But, you could be right. Maybe if he stopped yelling it would be so strange the players might take it as him quitting on them. Yeah I take that as coach speak. I can't ever imagine WT not yelling, gesticulating, and as atownbeaver points out sweating on the sideline. On Saturday I will try to pay close attention (and if I can get a seat close enough) to what WT is yelling. You are right if he is still having to call out basic positioning, or remind players what their basic role in a play is, that’s not good. But encouragement, details and tips, "5…4...3...2...” as the shot clock is running down, those are all good things that I expect. It’s like I tell my kids… “How will you know I love you if I stop yelling???”
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 27, 2018 8:26:31 GMT -8
Judge, I agree that KenPom's early season ratings aren't great. But given that Long Beach is picked to finish 4th or 5th in the Big West, the performance against them still doesn't do much for my confidence that we can win at least 2 conference road games. I hope I'm wrong and maybe just getting this road win will help improve the Beavers' confidence on the road this year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2018 8:37:12 GMT -8
Judge, I agree that KenPom's early season ratings aren't great. But given that Long Beach is picked to finish 4th or 5th in the Big West, the performance against them still doesn't do much for my confidence that we can win at least 2 conference road games. I hope I'm wrong and maybe just getting this road win will help improve the Beavers' confidence on the road this year. The best thing about the win is the way they won. Had they blown out the beach early and then coasted it would not have been much of a test. Instead they clamped down on D and better yet, actually ran some offense and got good shots when they needed to. Stevie and Ethan spotted up in the right place and the team got the ball to them. There was also a nice hoop on an inbounds play AFTER a timeout. <Applause>. Tink and Reich making the free throws to ice it was a nice capper. All in all a maximum win just purely because of the closeout. Time to move on.
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Post by Judge Smails on Nov 27, 2018 8:48:42 GMT -8
Judge, I agree that KenPom's early season ratings aren't great. But given that Long Beach is picked to finish 4th or 5th in the Big West, the performance against them still doesn't do much for my confidence that we can win at least 2 conference road games. I hope I'm wrong and maybe just getting this road win will help improve the Beavers' confidence on the road this year. And we were picked to finish 10th in our conference. That shouldn't give you or the team much confidence either.
I could give a crap about where teams are picked. WSU in football was picked to finish 4th in the North and they ended up 10-2.
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Post by beaverinohio on Nov 27, 2018 8:55:40 GMT -8
Judge, I agree that KenPom's early season ratings aren't great. But given that Long Beach is picked to finish 4th or 5th in the Big West, the performance against them still doesn't do much for my confidence that we can win at least 2 conference road games. I hope I'm wrong and maybe just getting this road win will help improve the Beavers' confidence on the road this year. The best thing about the win is the way they won. Had they blown out the beach early and then coasted it would not have been much of a test. Instead they clamped down on D and better yet, actually ran some offense and got good shots when they needed to. Stevie and Ethan spotted up in the right place and the team got the ball to them. There was also a nice hoop on an inbounds play AFTER a timeout. <Applause>. Tink and Reich making the free throws to ice it was a nice capper. All in all a maximum win just purely because of the closeout. Time to move on. I agree it was nice to see them win a close one. But they had come back from a 5 point deficit to have an 11 point lead with 7 minutes left. So they showed their grit getting back into the game and taking a nice lead. I don't know if I'd call it a plus that they then squandered that lead. I did love that inbounds play. Those seem way to few and far between. Anyway, I'm looking forward to a good performance against Missouri St. on Saturday.
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Post by obf on Nov 27, 2018 9:48:45 GMT -8
I enjoy reading the different perspectives whether it is positive or negative. I think the negative comments come from high expectations. There is obvious talent on this team, they just don’t always play in a way that makes them a great team, yet. I am optimistic they will pull it together. Based on the comments on this thread, I am guessing some of you are seeing more positive signs I am not seeing or that were not already covered in the LBSt thread. I for one (can’t speak for blocheese or baseba11) would love to hear what those are. And I already know we are 5-1 and we won on the road, which I think is great. I don't consider myself overly negative when it comes to Beavers basketball (not in the fire Tinkle camp or against the coaches' sons seeing plenty of playing time) and I'm happy the Beavs won. But it was not the kind of performance for which I was looking. Going into the season, my expectations (hope) for this team were at least .500 in the league and an NCAA berth (or at worst an NIT invite). I was basing this upon having two senior starters as well as a red-shirt junior starter, the hope that the three sophomores would take a nice step forward, and a decent recruiting class. I knew not having Drew would be a loss, but I was hopeful Big G and the new big men would be able to offset that loss. After several games with Kelley stepping up nicely, I was even more hopeful. I was hoping we'd beat Missouri, but thought coming out of that tourney with two wins was another positive step. And then came the Long Beach State game. Yes they came away with a victory on the road, but against a team that KenPom has rated 215. Yes they showed some scrappiness, but I was disappointed that it was about the best thing you can take away from the win. That they beat a team that they lost to on a neutral court last year isn't as big plus for me as it seems to be for others as I expect them to be better than last year. I'm still hopeful for the season, but to reach the expectations I have for this year's team they will likely need at least a couple of conference road wins. Using KenPom's ratings the two most likely would be Utah and Wash. St. Right now using KenPom's ratings, Wash. St. is rated 43 spots ahead of Beach and Utah is rated 107 higher. The performance against Beach doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me that we can win those two road games. The original poster said the role of a fan is to be naively optimistic. To me optimism speaks of the future and the performance in that victory didn't increase mine -- and saying a win is a win is a win doesn't either. Despite that I am still optimistic and have high hopes for this team. I will continue to watch and cheer on the Beavers in front of my TV. But I refuse to be overjoyed if the best this year's men's basketball team can do is stay out of "Anderpants territory." That is all very reasonable. But let me give you a couple things from the LBState win that encouraged me: 1.) The ratings are less that useful right now. These statistical elo sttyle rankings that us a spiderweb network of who beats who needs a fairly good sized chunk of the season to be complete before they have much meaning, so don't be too worked up yet about 43 or 44 or 45 spots behind or a head or whatever. 2.) Don't forget that not only was this a ROAD WIN, whcih is somthing that has been difficult for all the Men's sports save baseball over the last few years, but the team was on the last day of a two week trip (they didn't go home after Virgin Islands I dont think). I don't know about you, but my best work is not done at the end of a long work trip while I am packing, preparinga nd longing to be home To fight though the weight of road losses past and the sluggishness that comes with long road trips and still get the win is a big positive to me. They didn't shoot all that well, they wer down at half, built a lead almost let it slip away, but still gutted out the win, those are all positives, IMHO. They could have been playing the #350 RPI team, and it wouldn't have changed the human, outside the lines, but still very real opponents that they were facing. 3.) Tres struggled mightly. Sometimes your best player is going to have an off night, how does you team do? Tres went 1-9 in teh first half, did the rest of the team roll over and say, "Whelp, Tres isn't scoring I guess we will lose"? They did not, others stepped up and kept it close either by playing good defense or scoring themselves, and then in the end they all pulled together to get teh win. 4.) In terms of actual basketball positives and not "touchy feely" stuff that some may dismiss I saw these: a.) Clutch Free Throws -- When have we hit clutch free throws before? The Brent Barry days? b.) Defense -- This team seems MUCH more concerted on defense, more energy, more help, Kelley has been a revelation anchoring the middle and protecting the rim. Just like Tres had a bad game and you can credit LBST with causing some of that, their main scorer also had a very touch time against the beaver 'D' (held to zero FG) c.) Offensive Rebounding -- Seems like we are crashing teh offensive boards more than in the past, creating second chances, more time off the clock, and also eay oppurtunities for the big guys. d.) Turnovers -- In this specific game they weren't too terrible, only 9, this is definitely not a "solved" issue though (see below) e.) E is for Ethan! -- After was was a pretty terrible road trip for Ethan it was nice to see him be the player of teh game. 18 pts and 7 rebs is a very nice stat line if that is what we can get from him night in night out we will win A LOT of games Of course it would be nice if your PG had more than 1 assist, but others weren't making shots so it wasn't all just Than not passing well...
5.) Of course there were basketball negatives as well, lets list a few of those, but with specifics... I see a lot of people saying, "sam ol, same ol", but not actually describing what that is. So I will give what I see:
a.) Defensive Rebounding -- If I was WT I would make Big G run a gasser for every "back tip" he attempted.... MOST of the LBST offensive rebounds were from Big G tipping a rebound and a LBST guy grabbing the carom. If you can touch it you can grab it! And if you can't grab itleave it alone and box out for someone else! A big portion of their comback at the end was fueled by those tipped offensive rebounds. b.) 3 pt percentage -- We shot just a horrid 23% from three. There can be lots of reasons for it, and to their credit that recognized the team was having an off night and shot way less threes in teh second half, but we need those open jumpers that other guys work so hard to create to go down! c.) Turnovers -- In all the virgin island games we were VERY sloppy with the ball. It was nice that against LBST we only had 9, but that number should stay in the single digits for every game. They still have work to do here. d.) Ethan -- Ethan is one of your studly sophomores that you were optimistic about, and he has been quite eginmatic to start the year. He was VERY good against LBST, he was PUTRID in the virgin Islands. Hollins is in the same boat some good moments here and there, and some very bad ones. We need those guys to step up and settle into a good flow.
Cheers and Go Beavs!
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Nov 27, 2018 9:58:04 GMT -8
Quality moral victory for uo last night, staying within five points of Texas Southern.
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