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Post by beaverinohio on Jul 16, 2018 5:37:29 GMT -8
I don't support the "who are you going to hire" way of thinking. But I also don't think it is time to get rid of Tinkle either. Has his tenure been somewhat disappointing? Yes. But I think there has been enough good to keep the Tinkle Train on the track. I think last year's and this year's recruiting class has potential. Some in previous threads have seen people transferring out as a negative, but that is just the way college basketball is these days. I would like to see a him hire an ace recruiter. I can see Oregon State being a somewhat difficult place to recruit -- overall poor recent history for the team, likely not many teens growing up dreaming of becoming a Beaver -- so recruiting acumen is needed.
Based on what I've seen so far, I'm willing to give Tinkle another two years unless this year is terrible. After that if we haven't seen some improvement in record then might be time to move on. I just hope if it goes that direction people aren't calling for a west coast coach. It has to be a national search and find an up-and-comer no matter where they are currently coaching. Mike Hopkins did pretty well in his first season at Washington coming from the east coast.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 16, 2018 15:26:37 GMT -8
The "who you going to hire" query is typically of those willing to settle for mediocrity. Past hires from past past admins have no correlation to what could be possible. OSU fans only to have to look at the WBB program to see that. Mediocrity to a sure fire "blue blood" assistant that destroyed a program. Who in the heck could you hire? Who in the HELL would want such a job? Oh, a tiny college coach from Newberg... wow, what a let down that was! There are hundreds of high quality teachers/coaches in the college game. It's not who, it getting lucky to get the right one. I'm not a fire WT guy, but he's been a huge disappointment in the teaching of the game, and his in game coaching is reactive and spotty at best because of it. On top of that, toss out all the recruiting site dumbo mumbo jumbo you want, but even so our recruiting is bottom tier for the PAC12. And, player development has not been stellar to make up for it. Maybe OSU can't have both, star recruiter and teacher, but you can recruit quality D1 kids and be a TERRIFIC motivator, teacher, X's and O's guy. WT isn't any of those at a level that makes a difference when having lower level talent. In fact, my argument is, if OSU had such a guy with similar talent we have we'd be top 4-5 in the league as I'm not sure the "elite" coaches in the Pac12 are much more than talent managers. I don't see a ton of them out coaching people. That said... flopping out the excuse of who else is out there that is better is just lame and lazy if you're the AD. It is their job to find better. For a fan base to just give in because no special "names" jump to the forefront or think they would take this job is accepting mediocrity and as thus have no business complaining later on. In my book it's simple, WT is top tier (4-5) Pac12 this year with this group or he should be on a VERY hot seat. In order to successfully advocate for a change in the status quo, you must be able to demonstrate that there exists a better coach that Oregon State could hire that is better than the one that Oregon State currently has. That is very basic Argumentative Discourse. (E.g., COMM 114) Leaving it up to Scott Barnes seems like an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen. Going forward, with Barnes' track record, any person that does not indicate who Oregon State should hire to replace Tinkle has immediately lost the argument in my measured professional opinion. Until I hear a cogent alternative to Tinkle, I will just think of the dumpster fire that was Oregon State football 2015-2017 and the morons who said that anyone other than Riley would be better and the morons who said that even BDC could not find someone worse than Riley. Just my humble two cents. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 16, 2018 16:04:32 GMT -8
The "who you going to hire" query is typically of those willing to settle for mediocrity. Past hires from past past admins have no correlation to what could be possible. OSU fans only to have to look at the WBB program to see that. Mediocrity to a sure fire "blue blood" assistant that destroyed a program. Who in the heck could you hire? Who in the HELL would want such a job? Oh, a tiny college coach from Newberg... wow, what a let down that was! There are hundreds of high quality teachers/coaches in the college game. It's not who, it getting lucky to get the right one. I'm not a fire WT guy, but he's been a huge disappointment in the teaching of the game, and his in game coaching is reactive and spotty at best because of it. On top of that, toss out all the recruiting site dumbo mumbo jumbo you want, but even so our recruiting is bottom tier for the PAC12. And, player development has not been stellar to make up for it. Maybe OSU can't have both, star recruiter and teacher, but you can recruit quality D1 kids and be a TERRIFIC motivator, teacher, X's and O's guy. WT isn't any of those at a level that makes a difference when having lower level talent. In fact, my argument is, if OSU had such a guy with similar talent we have we'd be top 4-5 in the league as I'm not sure the "elite" coaches in the Pac12 are much more than talent managers. I don't see a ton of them out coaching people. That said... flopping out the excuse of who else is out there that is better is just lame and lazy if you're the AD. It is their job to find better. For a fan base to just give in because no special "names" jump to the forefront or think they would take this job is accepting mediocrity and as thus have no business complaining later on. In my book it's simple, WT is top tier (4-5) Pac12 this year with this group or he should be on a VERY hot seat. In order to successfully advocate for a change in the status quo, you must be able to demonstrate that there exists a better coach that Oregon State could hire that is better than the one that Oregon State currently has. That is very basic Argumentative Discourse. (E.g., COMM 114) Leaving it up to Scott Barnes seems like an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen. Going forward, with Barnes' track record, any person that does not indicate who Oregon State should hire to replace Tinkle has immediately lost the argument in my measured professional opinion. Until I hear a cogent alternative to Tinkle, I will just think of the dumpster fire that was Oregon State football 2015-2017 and the morons who said that anyone other than Riley would be better and the morons who said that even BDC could not find someone worse than Riley. Just my humble two cents. Who has Barnes hired here that is an unmitigated disaster? He hasn’t hired anyone in any major sport here. Yes, his Pitt BB hire flamed out, but that doesn’t count on his record here. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 16, 2018 16:17:45 GMT -8
In order to successfully advocate for a change in the status quo, you must be able to demonstrate that there exists a better coach that Oregon State could hire that is better than the one that Oregon State currently has. That is very basic Argumentative Discourse. (E.g., COMM 114) Leaving it up to Scott Barnes seems like an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen. Going forward, with Barnes' track record, any person that does not indicate who Oregon State should hire to replace Tinkle has immediately lost the argument in my measured professional opinion. Until I hear a cogent alternative to Tinkle, I will just think of the dumpster fire that was Oregon State football 2015-2017 and the morons who said that anyone other than Riley would be better and the morons who said that even BDC could not find someone worse than Riley. Just my humble two cents. Who has Barnes hired here that is an unmitigated disaster? He hasn’t hired anyone in any major sport here. Yes, his Pitt BB hire flamed out, but that doesn’t count on his record here. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."--George Santayana. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 16, 2018 16:28:47 GMT -8
The "who you going to hire" query is typically of those willing to settle for mediocrity. Past hires from past past admins have no correlation to what could be possible. OSU fans only to have to look at the WBB program to see that. Mediocrity to a sure fire "blue blood" assistant that destroyed a program. Who in the heck could you hire? Who in the HELL would want such a job? Oh, a tiny college coach from Newberg... wow, what a let down that was! There are hundreds of high quality teachers/coaches in the college game. It's not who, it getting lucky to get the right one. I'm not a fire WT guy, but he's been a huge disappointment in the teaching of the game, and his in game coaching is reactive and spotty at best because of it. On top of that, toss out all the recruiting site dumbo mumbo jumbo you want, but even so our recruiting is bottom tier for the PAC12. And, player development has not been stellar to make up for it. Maybe OSU can't have both, star recruiter and teacher, but you can recruit quality D1 kids and be a TERRIFIC motivator, teacher, X's and O's guy. WT isn't any of those at a level that makes a difference when having lower level talent. In fact, my argument is, if OSU had such a guy with similar talent we have we'd be top 4-5 in the league as I'm not sure the "elite" coaches in the Pac12 are much more than talent managers. I don't see a ton of them out coaching people. That said... flopping out the excuse of who else is out there that is better is just lame and lazy if you're the AD. It is their job to find better. For a fan base to just give in because no special "names" jump to the forefront or think they would take this job is accepting mediocrity and as thus have no business complaining later on. In my book it's simple, WT is top tier (4-5) Pac12 this year with this group or he should be on a VERY hot seat. In order to successfully advocate for a change in the status quo, you must be able to demonstrate that there exists a better coach that Oregon State could hire that is better than the one that Oregon State currently has. That is very basic Argumentative Discourse. (E.g., COMM 114) Leaving it up to Scott Barnes seems like an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen. Going forward, with Barnes' track record, any person that does not indicate who Oregon State should hire to replace Tinkle has immediately lost the argument in my measured professional opinion. Until I hear a cogent alternative to Tinkle, I will just think of the dumpster fire that was Oregon State football 2015-2017 and the morons who said that anyone other than Riley would be better and the morons who said that even BDC could not find someone worse than Riley. Just my humble two cents. So, did your spare change need specific names to know GAG had to go? Let's just repeat... there are hundreds of quality teachers/coaches in all levels of college hoops. There is no need to research and/or toss out names until its time for WT to move on. That said... the AD was hired... part of his duties with assistance from others is to hire and fire. In addition, your "measured professional opinion" is far from really mattering as your profession is not in athletic management. Opinion, cool. But, as we've seen in other matters your opinions are oft colored by personal beliefs not your profession and due diligence in that profession. So, if and when the time comes I'll trust SB and the admin to find a better coach. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 16, 2018 16:33:33 GMT -8
Who has Barnes hired here that is an unmitigated disaster? He hasn’t hired anyone in any major sport here. Yes, his Pitt BB hire flamed out, but that doesn’t count on his record here. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."--George Santayana. Come on... generic quote? If only life didn't have numerous variables and was so black and white! 🤔 |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 16, 2018 16:39:12 GMT -8
Who has Barnes hired here that is an unmitigated disaster? He hasn’t hired anyone in any major sport here. Yes, his Pitt BB hire flamed out, but that doesn’t count on his record here. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."--George Santayana. So you refused to answer my question? Who has he hired in a major sport here? “The world needs ditch diggers too” Me |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 16, 2018 16:51:49 GMT -8
In order to successfully advocate for a change in the status quo, you must be able to demonstrate that there exists a better coach that Oregon State could hire that is better than the one that Oregon State currently has. That is very basic Argumentative Discourse. (E.g., COMM 114) Leaving it up to Scott Barnes seems like an unmitigated disaster waiting to happen. Going forward, with Barnes' track record, any person that does not indicate who Oregon State should hire to replace Tinkle has immediately lost the argument in my measured professional opinion. Until I hear a cogent alternative to Tinkle, I will just think of the dumpster fire that was Oregon State football 2015-2017 and the morons who said that anyone other than Riley would be better and the morons who said that even BDC could not find someone worse than Riley. Just my humble two cents. So, did your spare change need specific names to know GAG had to go? Let's just repeat... there are hundreds of quality teachers/coaches in all levels of college hoops. There is no need to research and/or toss out names until its time for WT to move on. That said... the AD was hired... part of his duties with assistance from others is to hire and fire. In addition, your "measured professional opinion" is far from really mattering as your profession is not in athletic management. Opinion, cool. But, as we've seen in other matters your opinions are oft colored by personal beliefs not your profession and due diligence in that profession. So, if and when the time comes I'll trust SB and the admin to find a better coach. GAG quit. I did not need to know anything. I believe you are referring to my analysis of defamation law and how it does not comport with other people's analysis of defamation law. I have my personal beliefs. They may color my analysis. That is always possible. However, in the same breath, I believe that several other people allowed their personal beliefs to allow them to speak nonsensically about the identical topic. (Although, to be fair, they may have been misinterpreting my statements to be talking about something other than defamation law.) But that is my personal opinion. I do not believe that you have a second example. Thus, your use of the word "oft" does not appear to be apt. One of these years, Oregon State will have a great AD again. Until then, I am in no hurry to fire any coach that has led Oregon State to its best season of the past 25 years. This is especially true, when it appears probable that it would tank the season following. I believe that advocating for WT's firing at this juncture is illogical. Having said that, circumstances may show me to be a fool this off-season or even one game into the season. That is always positive. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 16, 2018 16:54:15 GMT -8
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."--George Santayana. So you refused to answer my question? Who has he hired in a major sport here? “The world needs ditch diggers too” Me I really thought that you were joking. Thus, I made a half-hearted response, in case you were actually serious. My response to baseba11 should cover you, as well. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 16, 2018 16:56:30 GMT -8
So you refused to answer my question? Who has he hired in a major sport here? “The world needs ditch diggers too” Me I really thought that you were joking. Thus, I made a half-hearted response, in case you were actually serious. My response to baseba11 should cover you, as well. [b You still refuse to answer my question. Who has Barnes hired in a major sport? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 16, 2018 16:59:13 GMT -8
I really thought that you were joking. Thus, I made a half-hearted response, in case you were actually serious. My response to baseba11 should cover you, as well. [b You still refuse to answer my question. Who has Barnes hired in a major sport? Kevin Stallings at Pittsburgh. To blithely say that Barnes' prior decision-making at Pittsburgh somehow does not magically apply in Corvallis seems foolish to me. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 16, 2018 17:02:41 GMT -8
[b You still refuse to answer my question. Who has Barnes hired in a major sport? Kevin Stallings at Pittsburgh. To blithely say that Barnes' prior decision-making at Pittsburgh somehow does not magically apply in Corvallis seems foolish to me. Wrong! Barnes has hired nobody except Smith, who has yet to coach a game here and the jury is still out on. I would think someone considering themselves the resident “ historian” would know that. What is Stallings record at OSU? I’ll give you a minute to google. Riley and Erickson both failed elsewhere. Does that make them bad coaches at OSU? |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 17, 2018 13:36:47 GMT -8
Kevin Stallings at Pittsburgh. To blithely say that Barnes' prior decision-making at Pittsburgh somehow does not magically apply in Corvallis seems foolish to me. Wrong! Barnes has hired nobody except Smith, who has yet to coach a game here and the jury is still out on. I would think someone considering themselves the resident “ historian” would know that. What is Stallings record at OSU? I’ll give you a minute to google. Riley and Erickson both failed elsewhere. Does that make them bad coaches at OSU? Barnes has hired lots of coaches, just not at Oregon State. Riley and Erickson were both great coaches at Oregon State. And Riley and Erickson both had success as head coach prior to Oregon State. Riley won the Grey Cup two of his final three years in Winnipeg and had a winning record at San Antonio before that team folded. (John "JBL" Layfield and Jason Garrett were two of his players.) Riley then went to USC, and was made the offensive coordinator and later assistant head coach. In his first three years, USC finished 1st, 2nd, and 1st and won the Freedom, Cotton, and Rose Bowls. Riley had some detractors, but he was generally a proven commodity. However, he had had zero success at Oregon State.In just four seasons, Erickson was Idaho's all-time winningest head coach, taking a 3-8 team and going 32-15 over four seasons. In two years, Erickson took a 3-7-1 team and won the first bowl game at Washington State in 72 years (first since the 1916 Rose Bowl). Erickson then went to Miami and won two national championships, most by one coach in program history. Erickson finished with a 63-9 (.875) record, best in program history for one head coach. In his six years, Miami won the Sugar, Cotton, and Orange Bowls and played in the Sugar, Fiesta, and Orange Bowls. Right before sanctions were leveled against Miami for rampant cheating that had occurred before he arrived, he took a job with the Seahawks. Erickson went 31-33 in his four years in Seattle, the only place prior to Oregon State, where he had not found success. Erickson had some detractors, but he was generally a proven commodity. However, he had had zero success at Oregon State.Barnes has had zero success at Oregon State. Unlike Riley and Erickson, who had basically been successful everywhere that they had been, Barnes has previously been very unspectacular at Pittsburgh. Even if we are to agree with your flawed premise that somehow moving from Corvallis to Pittsburgh magically wipes the ineptitude of an AD clean, at best you cannot say definitively that Barnes will be any good whatsoever. If we pay one of the lowest salaries in the Pac-12 with one of the worst set of facilities, it is logical that a mediocre AD will probably hire one of the worst coaches in the conference. Why would it be advisable to fire Tinkle just to replace him with someone terrible? What are we missing here? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2018 14:27:38 GMT -8
We were 7th his first year, then 6th, 12th and 10th last year. Where would the program be if the 3 best players on the team weren't coaches sons? I think that is extremely damning. Where would we have been the last couple years if we had actually had some experienced upper class men left over from the previous coaching staff? I think that’s extremely damning. People tend to forget Robinson got fired near the end of the school year, not the end of the season, and left Tinkle without a recruiting class... which followed a recruiting class from the previous year that didn’t pan out. That always happens. Excuses. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Jul 17, 2018 16:33:56 GMT -8
Wrong! Barnes has hired nobody except Smith, who has yet to coach a game here and the jury is still out on. I would think someone considering themselves the resident “ historian” would know that. What is Stallings record at OSU? I’ll give you a minute to google. Riley and Erickson both failed elsewhere. Does that make them bad coaches at OSU? Barnes has hired lots of coaches, just not at Oregon State. Riley and Erickson were both great coaches at Oregon State. And Riley and Erickson both had success as head coach prior to Oregon State. Riley won the Grey Cup two of his final three years in Winnipeg and had a winning record at San Antonio before that team folded. (John "JBL" Layfield and Jason Garrett were two of his players.) Riley then went to USC, and was made the offensive coordinator and later assistant head coach. In his first three years, USC finished 1st, 2nd, and 1st and won the Freedom, Cotton, and Rose Bowls. Riley had some detractors, but he was generally a proven commodity. However, he had had zero success at Oregon State.In just four seasons, Erickson was Idaho's all-time winningest head coach, taking a 3-8 team and going 32-15 over four seasons. In two years, Erickson took a 3-7-1 team and won the first bowl game at Washington State in 72 years (first since the 1916 Rose Bowl). Erickson then went to Miami and won two national championships, most by one coach in program history. Erickson finished with a 63-9 (.875) record, best in program history for one head coach. In his six years, Miami won the Sugar, Cotton, and Orange Bowls and played in the Sugar, Fiesta, and Orange Bowls. Right before sanctions were leveled against Miami for rampant cheating that had occurred before he arrived, he took a job with the Seahawks. Erickson went 31-33 in his four years in Seattle, the only place prior to Oregon State, where he had not found success. Erickson had some detractors, but he was generally a proven commodity. However, he had had zero success at Oregon State.Barnes has had zero success at Oregon State. Unlike Riley and Erickson, who had basically been successful everywhere that they had been, Barnes has previously been very unspectacular at Pittsburgh. Even if we are to agree with your flawed premise that somehow moving from Corvallis to Pittsburgh magically wipes the ineptitude of an AD clean, at best you cannot say definitively that Barnes will be any good whatsoever. If we pay one of the lowest salaries in the Pac-12 with one of the worst set of facilities, it is logical that a mediocre AD will probably hire one of the worst coaches in the conference. Why would it be advisable to fire Tinkle just to replace him with someone terrible? What are we missing here? I have no idea what your point is. My point is that he has only hired 1 major coach here and we have no idea how that will turn out. You inferred that he’s a crappy AD based on 1 hire he made at another school. That has nothing to do with how he’ll do here. Do you think that good ADs never make bad hires? Also, Erickson and Riley were good here, but failed at destinations they left for. Does that make the AD’s that hired them bad for hiring proven coaches? FYI- I like Tinks and hope he works out. I’m not ready to fire him either. |
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