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Post by Henry Skrimshander on May 3, 2018 8:52:57 GMT -8
Lies, dam lies and statistics.
Olaf, LMW and Malcolm all got better, all played better team ball, and all played better defense, and we won more games, in the final two seasons of their college careers under WT than they did under CR. If you don't see that then you are not half as smart as you believe you are.
I guess you're probably mad at Pat Casey for not playing Troy Claunch much until late in the season too.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 3, 2018 9:29:06 GMT -8
Lies, dam lies and statistics. Olaf, LMW and Malcolm all got better, all played better team ball, and all played better defense, and we won more games, in the final two seasons of their college careers under WT than they did under CR. If you don't see that then you are not half as smart as you believe you are. I guess you're probably mad at Pat Casey for not playing Troy Claunch much until late in the season too. Funny their stats and min went down, they improved, team play improved yet Team D went down offensive rank up a little, but production insignificant. So "better" is a matter of sight and opinion? And yours is better? Totally get it... Lol The WT excusers starting to sound very similar to those GAG guys who crawled away quietly. The entire improved player idea is totally opinion... we disagree. What's not opinion, the results. You keep giving "reasons", just look at the results without the excuses. But, excuses/reasons cut both ways. You say inherited players improved. Another could say WT's only two winning seasons were with someone else's recruits. Maybe the truth is somewhere inbetween? And WT best pull a rabbit out of his hat this next season and hope two or three of these new recruits are fantastic. Cuz the after next year the cupboard will be very bare, especially if Tres makes the same miscalculation Drew made (unless Drew knows camp, maybe one of the 25 G- league teams, or Europe is ok). |
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Post by Judge Smails on May 3, 2018 10:55:19 GMT -8
Alfred is off to a good start..... Yep... after he basically didn't play half the season. You'd think once you land a good recruit you'd actually let them develop vs shortening the rotation during NC games to begin the season. But, agree. He's a player. But, to me nnot a WT success... yet... since he only saw fit to use him sparingly until Berger was injured. And, only been here a year so far. There were a couple of reasons Alfred didn't play much at the start of the season. First of all, he was dinged up and second of all, if you watched him on the defensive end, he was lost and did not have a good grasp of team defense. He was much improved on the defensive end by the end of the year. Berger had a better grasp of the defense and that is why he played more. |
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Post by Judge Smails on May 3, 2018 11:07:56 GMT -8
Lies, dam lies and statistics. Olaf, LMW and Malcolm all got better, all played better team ball, and all played better defense, and we won more games, in the final two seasons of their college careers under WT than they did under CR. If you don't see that then you are not half as smart as you believe you are. I guess you're probably mad at Pat Casey for not playing Troy Claunch much until late in the season too. "Half as smart" is a stretch. |
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Post by baseba1111 on May 3, 2018 11:24:19 GMT -8
Yep... after he basically didn't play half the season. You'd think once you land a good recruit you'd actually let them develop vs shortening the rotation during NC games to begin the season. But, agree. He's a player. But, to me nnot a WT success... yet... since he only saw fit to use him sparingly until Berger was injured. And, only been here a year so far. There were a couple of reasons Alfred didn't play much at the start of the season. First of all, he was dinged up and second of all, if you watched him on the defensive end, he was lost and did not have a good grasp of team defense. He was much improved on the defensive end by the end of the year. Berger had a better grasp of the defense and that is why he played more. He actually wasn't "dinged" would play 1 min, then 10, then 2. If dinged or lost his minutes would not have been so up and down. He sat out for the arrest, then right back to the yo-yo. It wasn't like there were other good options in that spot... Berger provided very little. Nor were we so deep that we could afford to not develop kids on the court asap. The whole shortening the rotation was crazy talk. If grasping the concept of team D was the issue it was certainly the lesser of the other 5 "evils". But, I like all the "smarter" than me excuses. Like I mentioned we've heard some variance of them all before. And, of course, they don't change the facts! So, serious question. Although WT seems to be more than a good guy I'm actually not a hater. He truly hasn't produced in 4 years. Nor is there the "feeling" he's on the cusp. In fact the feel is more that he's window is closing. Rather than the tourney bid create a surge, it's been flat or even declining. I wasn't thrilled he was the best OSU could get, but hey we are who we are. That said, no more excuses... do the thoughts apply if in year 5 this team goes 9-4 or worse vs a middling NC schedule (ahhh... remember when that St John's loss was to mean great things to come?)... then finishes 7th/8th or lower in the Pac12? As 4-5 teams are more talented, 6-7 out recruited us significantly, and a couple slightly. Campbell may be a good late get. But, we have now 0 true PGs, as Jordan was mainly a combo guard and SDSU recruited him as such. So, unless eer land a grad transfer one of the Thompsons will still be out of position. Or Xavier Smith (assuming he'll be on the new roster) suddenly goes from nonplaying walk on to contributing PG. Bigs... Big G, never used Isaac Barnes, and three inexperienced recruits... one played sparingly due to injury, one not overly impressive in a weak JC setting. Washington best be a "man". Then Hollins, Tres, Thompson's, and Zach... basically 5 guys that comfortably play the 2 or 3. But, all are out gunned at any other spot on the floor. So, again... nice guy but what exactly does this team need to do RESULT wise for WT to actually not have to be defended by excuses? |
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Post by TheGlove on May 3, 2018 11:47:02 GMT -8
I'm so glad I created this place for you guys to argue...
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 3, 2018 11:50:42 GMT -8
Hollins had a number of reasons to see limited time early on. First he was new, straight out of high school. He missed the Europe trip to make up some academic credits. There was a matter of an arrest in October that resulted in no charges that may or may not have affected things behind the scenes a bit. I assume the biggest thing is getting used to playing at this level.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 3, 2018 11:56:55 GMT -8
I'm so glad I created this place for you guys to argue... There's nothing like a good argument. I'd like to see a rip roaring mayonnaise or miracle whip argument come up, but people would ask for it to be moved to the condiment board. Without arguments this board would stagnate and die. |
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Post by baseba1111 on May 3, 2018 12:04:48 GMT -8
I'm so glad I created this place for you guys to argue... There's nothing like a good argument. I'd like to see a rip roaring mayonnaise or miracle whip argument come up, but people would ask for it to be moved to the condiment board. Without arguments this board would stagnate and die. I get the ad hominem attack issue. But, it seems still defined discussions backed with with some fact, insight, and opinion is the basis of team message boards. If not, and everyone is to "agree"... might as well call it marriage! 😜 |
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Post by TheGlove on May 3, 2018 14:39:28 GMT -8
I'm so glad I created this place for you guys to argue... There's nothing like a good argument. I'd like to see a rip roaring mayonnaise or miracle whip argument come up, but people would ask for it to be moved to the condiment board. Without arguments this board would stagnate and die. Mayo or die! The real debate is Hellmann's v Best Foods. Some swear there's difference. |
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Post by blackbug on May 3, 2018 15:18:33 GMT -8
I'm so glad I created this place for you guys to argue... There's nothing like a good argument. I'd like to see a rip roaring mayonnaise or miracle whip argument come up, but people would ask for it to be moved to the condiment board. Without arguments this board would stagnate and die. There was also an ankle sprain that slowed him down for a while. |
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Post by ag87 on May 3, 2018 15:26:42 GMT -8
Miracle Whip
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Post by seastape on May 3, 2018 16:26:01 GMT -8
There's nothing like a good argument. I'd like to see a rip roaring mayonnaise or miracle whip argument come up, but people would ask for it to be moved to the condiment board. Without arguments this board would stagnate and die. I get the ad hominem attack issue. But, it seems still defined discussions backed with with some fact, insight, and opinion is the basis of team message boards. If not, and everyone is to "agree"... might as well call it marriage! 😜 Your marriage must be different from mine. |
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Post by seastape on May 3, 2018 18:33:19 GMT -8
There were a couple of reasons Alfred didn't play much at the start of the season. First of all, he was dinged up and second of all, if you watched him on the defensive end, he was lost and did not have a good grasp of team defense. He was much improved on the defensive end by the end of the year. Berger had a better grasp of the defense and that is why he played more. He actually wasn't "dinged" would play 1 min, then 10, then 2. If dinged or lost his minutes would not have been so up and down. He sat out for the arrest, then right back to the yo-yo. It wasn't like there were other good options in that spot... Berger provided very little. Nor were we so deep that we could afford to not develop kids on the court asap. The whole shortening the rotation was crazy talk. If grasping the concept of team D was the issue it was certainly the lesser of the other 5 "evils". But, I like all the "smarter" than me excuses. Like I mentioned we've heard some variance of them all before. And, of course, they don't change the facts! So, serious question. Although WT seems to be more than a good guy I'm actually not a hater. He truly hasn't produced in 4 years. Nor is there the "feeling" he's on the cusp. In fact the feel is more that he's window is closing. Rather than the tourney bid create a surge, it's been flat or even declining. I wasn't thrilled he was the best OSU could get, but hey we are who we are. That said, no more excuses... do the thoughts apply if in year 5 this team goes 9-4 or worse vs a middling NC schedule (ahhh... remember when that St John's loss was to mean great things to come?)... then finishes 7th/8th or lower in the Pac12? As 4-5 teams are more talented, 6-7 out recruited us significantly, and a couple slightly. Campbell may be a good late get. But, we have now 0 true PGs, as Jordan was mainly a combo guard and SDSU recruited him as such. So, unless eer land a grad transfer one of the Thompsons will still be out of position. Or Xavier Smith (assuming he'll be on the new roster) suddenly goes from nonplaying walk on to contributing PG. Bigs... Big G, never used Isaac Barnes, and three inexperienced recruits... one played sparingly due to injury, one not overly impressive in a weak JC setting. Washington best be a "man". Then Hollins, Tres, Thompson's, and Zach... basically 5 guys that comfortably play the 2 or 3. But, all are out gunned at any other spot on the floor. So, again... nice guy but what exactly does this team need to do RESULT wise for WT to actually not have to be defended by excuses? Coach Tinkle is entering his fifth season. At this point, I expect an NIT bid at the minimum, with a preference of some advancement in that tournament or an appearance in the NCAAs. I would expect that of any coach in his fifth year, unless that coach's fourth year had featured an NCAA tournament win or two followed by the exit of 2-4 players (due to graduation and/or an early exit to the NBA) with high minutes and/or stats.
That is not what Tinkle had in his fourth year. Instead, in a down year for the conference, Tinkle had a .500 year that followed a disastrous third year. Now is the time for Tinkle to show that he can consistently make the post-season. That will be tough as OSU has no true PG and just lost it's best (only?) big man and will now be relying on a freshman combo guard and freshmen big men to fill big minutes. Tinkle's consistent lack of depth has killed his chances of winning three of his four years and that specter looms large again.
Keeping my fingers crossed. We have three proven guys (Tinkle and the Thompsons) and one guy that shows some promise (Hollins) but beyond that we have freshmen and some dudes that need to take a serious step up in their game. No excuses. Tinkle's seat is starting to warm up.
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Post by Judge Smails on May 3, 2018 18:47:32 GMT -8
He actually wasn't "dinged" would play 1 min, then 10, then 2. If dinged or lost his minutes would not have been so up and down. He sat out for the arrest, then right back to the yo-yo. It wasn't like there were other good options in that spot... Berger provided very little. Nor were we so deep that we could afford to not develop kids on the court asap. The whole shortening the rotation was crazy talk. If grasping the concept of team D was the issue it was certainly the lesser of the other 5 "evils". But, I like all the "smarter" than me excuses. Like I mentioned we've heard some variance of them all before. And, of course, they don't change the facts! So, serious question. Although WT seems to be more than a good guy I'm actually not a hater. He truly hasn't produced in 4 years. Nor is there the "feeling" he's on the cusp. In fact the feel is more that he's window is closing. Rather than the tourney bid create a surge, it's been flat or even declining. I wasn't thrilled he was the best OSU could get, but hey we are who we are. That said, no more excuses... do the thoughts apply if in year 5 this team goes 9-4 or worse vs a middling NC schedule (ahhh... remember when that St John's loss was to mean great things to come?)... then finishes 7th/8th or lower in the Pac12? As 4-5 teams are more talented, 6-7 out recruited us significantly, and a couple slightly. Campbell may be a good late get. But, we have now 0 true PGs, as Jordan was mainly a combo guard and SDSU recruited him as such. So, unless eer land a grad transfer one of the Thompsons will still be out of position. Or Xavier Smith (assuming he'll be on the new roster) suddenly goes from nonplaying walk on to contributing PG. Bigs... Big G, never used Isaac Barnes, and three inexperienced recruits... one played sparingly due to injury, one not overly impressive in a weak JC setting. Washington best be a "man". Then Hollins, Tres, Thompson's, and Zach... basically 5 guys that comfortably play the 2 or 3. But, all are out gunned at any other spot on the floor. So, again... nice guy but what exactly does this team need to do RESULT wise for WT to actually not have to be defended by excuses? Coach Tinkle is entering his fifth season. At this point, I expect an NIT bid at the minimum, with a preference of some advancement in that tournament or an appearance in the NCAAs. I would expect that of any coach in his fifth year, unless that coach's fourth year had featured an NCAA tournament win or two followed by the exit of 2-4 players (due to graduation and/or an early exit to the NBA) with high minutes and/or stats.
That is not what Tinkle had in his fourth year. Instead, in a down year for the conference, Tinkle had a .500 year that followed a disastrous third year. Now is the time for Tinkle to show that he can consistently make the post-season. That will be tough as OSU has no true PG and just lost it's best (only?) big man and will now be relying on a freshman combo guard and freshmen big men to fill big minutes. Tinkle's consistent lack of depth has killed his chances of winning three of his four years and that specter looms large again.
Keeping my fingers crossed. We have three proven guys (Tinkle and the Thompsons) and one guy that shows some promise (Hollins) but beyond that we have freshmen and some dudes that need to take a serious step up in their game. No excuses. Tinkle's seat is starting to warm up.
You’re forgetting about Big G. We need some drastic improvement from him and about 20 min a game. |
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