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Post by babeav on May 1, 2018 15:51:08 GMT -8
6'2" combo guard....original SDSU commit who was released from signed LOI. Looking like he's committed to Wayne. Kids film is pretty impressive.
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Post by steinlager on May 1, 2018 17:33:56 GMT -8
Good job coaches. Takes away some of the sting of losing the grad transfer guard to Louisville. Good get for the program.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2018 18:23:06 GMT -8
huge get.
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Post by jdogge on May 1, 2018 20:56:33 GMT -8
6'2" combo guard....original SDSU commit who was released from signed LOI. Looking like he's committed to Wayne. Kids film is pretty impressive. Maybe some posters should be as vocal with a pat on the back as they were claiming WT couldn't recruit?
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Post by baseba1111 on May 1, 2018 21:44:14 GMT -8
6'2" combo guard....original SDSU commit who was released from signed LOI. Looking like he's committed to Wayne. Kids film is pretty impressive. Maybe some posters should be as vocal with a pat on the back as they were claiming WT couldn't recruit? Well... if I've read the criticisms correctly recruiting also includes... signing... contributing... staying on the team. Not sure a commit from a "sure thing" SDSU guy merits a big deal... yet.😎
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Post by jdogge on May 1, 2018 21:51:34 GMT -8
Maybe some posters should be as vocal with a pat on the back as they were claiming WT couldn't recruit? Well... if I've read the criticisms correctly recruiting also includes... signing... contributing... staying on the team. Not sure a commit from a "sure thing" SDSU guy merits a big deal... yet.😎 Not sure where that comes from. Bruce -- academics, not Tinkle's fault [the University's retention program, maybe]; Laughlin -- didn't live up to billing; Kone -- broken; Manual -- reached his ceiling, maybe. So how much of that is put on WT? To be real honest, with the exception of his being unable to get into an 18 year-old head, I'm not sure he can be blamed.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 1, 2018 22:01:56 GMT -8
Well... if I've read the criticisms correctly recruiting also includes... signing... contributing... staying on the team. Not sure a commit from a "sure thing" SDSU guy merits a big deal... yet.😎 Not sure where that comes from. Bruce -- academics, not Tinkle's fault [the University's retention program, maybe]; Laughlin -- didn't live up to billing; Kone -- broken; Manual -- reached his ceiling, maybe. So how much of that is put on WT? To be real honest, with the exception of his being unable to get into an 18 year-old head, I'm not sure he can be blamed. Lol... you can call it whatever... blame, poor info, etc. But, they are HIS recruits. WT is responsible for their development or lack there of, just as he gets credit for successes. It's not a one way street. He's had enough "bad calls" to make one wonder. And, successes? Outside the "kids", would it just leave Drew? If you consider his development that big of "success". The recruiting classes have not been better than bottom tier of the Pac12. The need for a PG wasn't a recent event. And recruiting just one leaving no depth... ya know in case one leaves or doesn't cut it... is only a partial solution.
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Post by giantkillers83 on May 2, 2018 16:43:17 GMT -8
Not sure where that comes from. Bruce -- academics, not Tinkle's fault [the University's retention program, maybe]; Laughlin -- didn't live up to billing; Kone -- broken; Manual -- reached his ceiling, maybe. So how much of that is put on WT? To be real honest, with the exception of his being unable to get into an 18 year-old head, I'm not sure he can be blamed. Lol... you can call it whatever... blame, poor info, etc. But, they are HIS recruits. WT is responsible for their development or lack there of, just as he gets credit for successes. It's not a one way street. He's had enough "bad calls" to make one wonder. And, successes? Outside the "kids", would it just leave Drew? If you consider his development that big of "success". The recruiting classes have not been better than bottom tier of the Pac12. The need for a PG wasn't a recent event. And recruiting just one leaving no depth... ya know in case one leaves or doesn't cut it... is only a partial solution. Alfred is off to a good start.....
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on May 2, 2018 19:37:53 GMT -8
Considering Drew didn't even seriously play basketball until his sophomore or junior year in HS, I'd consider starting and averaging in double figures all three years of college to be successful development. Good enough for the NBA? Probably not. But he did develop tremendously from where he started about 5-6 years ago.
I would say Gary Payton II developed, and LMW and Olaf improved considerably from their junior to senior years. Hollins looks to be a player and Reichle has potential. And the coach's kids have improved as well.
Do we need to get better? Certainly. Has WT had some misses? Yes, everyone does. He's also signed some awfully good kids, coach's kids or not. I'd rather have them that someone else. We've had two winning seasons, a .500 season and that horrible 5-27 season, which totally skews his record. On balance I'm happy but would really like to see a breakthrough year this winter.
Others may disagree.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 2, 2018 20:09:49 GMT -8
Lol... you can call it whatever... blame, poor info, etc. But, they are HIS recruits. WT is responsible for their development or lack there of, just as he gets credit for successes. It's not a one way street. He's had enough "bad calls" to make one wonder. And, successes? Outside the "kids", would it just leave Drew? If you consider his development that big of "success". The recruiting classes have not been better than bottom tier of the Pac12. The need for a PG wasn't a recent event. And recruiting just one leaving no depth... ya know in case one leaves or doesn't cut it... is only a partial solution. Alfred is off to a good start..... Yep... after he basically didn't play half the season. You'd think once you land a good recruit you'd actually let them develop vs shortening the rotation during NC games to begin the season. But, agree. He's a player. But, to me nnot a WT success... yet... since he only saw fit to use him sparingly until Berger was injured. And, only been here a year so far.
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Post by baseba1111 on May 2, 2018 20:12:35 GMT -8
Considering Drew didn't even seriously play basketball until his sophomore or junior year in HS, I'd consider starting and averaging in double figures all three years of college to be successful development. Good enough for the NBA? Probably not. But he did develop tremendously from where he started about 5-6 years ago. I would say Gary Payton II developed, and LMW and Olaf improved considerably from their junior to senior years. Hollins looks to be a player and Reichle has potential. And the coach's kids have improved as well. Do we need to get better? Certainly. Has WT had some misses? Yes, everyone does. He's also signed some awfully good kids, coach's kids or not. I'd rather have them that someone else. We've had two winning seasons, a .500 season and that horrible 5-27 season, which totally skews his record. On balance I'm happy but would really like to see a breakthrough year this winter. Others may disagree. Yep... totally disagree. Not even worth going point by point. We'll just agree to disagree about the inherited players and how bad Drew was until WT took over. But, brief refresher on improving from Jr to Sr year (or in Malcolm case his last year here): Player '14/15 '15/16 (pts/rebs/min per game) Malcolm 10.7/3.0/35 6.1/2.4/25 LMW 9.3/4.6/31 5.2/2.4/17 Olaf 7.8/3.3/30 6.4/2.9/23
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 2, 2018 20:43:40 GMT -8
Considering Drew didn't even seriously play basketball until his sophomore or junior year in HS, I'd consider starting and averaging in double figures all three years of college to be successful development. Good enough for the NBA? Probably not. But he did develop tremendously from where he started about 5-6 years ago. I would say Gary Payton II developed, and LMW and Olaf improved considerably from their junior to senior years. Hollins looks to be a player and Reichle has potential. And the coach's kids have improved as well. Do we need to get better? Certainly. Has WT had some misses? Yes, everyone does. He's also signed some awfully good kids, coach's kids or not. I'd rather have them that someone else. We've had two winning seasons, a .500 season and that horrible 5-27 season, which totally skews his record. On balance I'm happy but would really like to see a breakthrough year this winter. Others may disagree. Yep... totally disagree. Not even worth going point by point. We'll just agree to disagree about the inherited players and how bad Drew was until WT took over. Are you saying WT inherited good players? Then you complain that WT didn't give Alfred an early enough chance? Maybe I'm reading things wrong, maybe you are talking out of both sides of your face? WT gave Hollins enough time to average nearly 6 points a game his first year. The kids he inherited? The top scorer he inherited scored 4 points a game the year before WT got here. He had to coach up a bunch of kids fast, and he had a winning season and got them to the NCAA the next year. You spent the last three seasons telling us Tres isn't a difference maker, yet he was all league his sophomore year. A number of our current players have clearly become better players over the course of the last couple years. I generally agree with you on a lot of your points but i think you are quite off the mark on your WT doesn't develop players rants
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Post by baseba1111 on May 2, 2018 22:21:38 GMT -8
Yep... totally disagree. Not even worth going point by point. We'll just agree to disagree about the inherited players and how bad Drew was until WT took over. Are you saying WT inherited good players? Then you complain that WT didn't give Alfred an early enough chance? Maybe I'm reading things wrong, maybe you are talking out of both sides of your face? WT gave Hollins enough time to average nearly 6 points a game his first year. The kids he inherited? The top scorer he inherited scored 4 points a game the year before WT got here. He had to coach up a bunch of kids fast, and he had a winning season and got them to the NCAA the next year. You spent the last three seasons telling us Tres isn't a difference maker, yet he was all league his sophomore year. A number of our current players have clearly become better players over the course of the last couple years. I generally agree with you on a lot of your points but i think you are quite off the mark on your WT doesn't develop players rants A) yep... you can't read. Not sure where I ever said he inherited good players, but the tourney was filled with guys be didn't recruit and certainly didn't transform in one off season. He went to the tourney because GPII stuck with OSU. So he sort did "inherit" his best player so far! B) "not a difference maker"... not sure those were ever my words. Could be, but doubt it as I don't spread the BS to say I remember 3 years of posts, let alone 3 years of other people's posts. That said... Tres was voted All Pac12 by coaches smarter than me. It doesn't change my opinion that although he's our best overall player, he's not going to lead this team anywhere. He's no GPII that is a great all-around player that can carry a team. A good player offensive player with limited hops/quicks on a bad offensive team who took approximately 23% of all the shots (Stevie took 23% also... Drew 14.8%). Also committed 22% of all turnovers. A good 2nd or 3rd option on a good team. But, again, MY OPINION. You're welcome to yours. C) far from "rants". THIS IS A RANT😜 D) look deeper on Hollins... 6 pts/game... he had 24% of his total pts in 2 of his 31 games. But, deeper... minutes were always sporadic until Berger hurt... NC games... 6 games with >10min, high of 20 = 7pt/g... then mixed in 6 games with <10 min, a DNP/suspended, 1 min, 2 min, 4 min, 5 min, 9 min = 1pt/g. Pac12... 4 games 103 min/25.8 ave and 69 pts/17.1 ave... 16 games 226 min/14 min and 62 pts/3.9. That is about as inconsistent as you can possibly use a player. Especially on a team starved for athleticism and offensive punch from somewhere besides the three guys taking 60% of the shots. Sad thing... he's twice the player... literally... that Seth was even with the sporadic PT. Seth scored 92 pts in 31 games... Hollins 179 and ended up with only 21 min more PT than Seth only because of an injury. Let's not even talk about the lack of using Big G who's pts/min (0.26) and reb/min (0.21) > Berger 0.23 and 0.17... Again... is this team, minus losses, plus recruits really significantly better on paper? And, if so, are they significantly better with respect to the rest of the Pac12? 247 says 10th in Pac12 w/ the new kid Building the Dam says 9th Scout says 10th ESPN says 10th Rivals says 9th I'm not a real believer in recruiting stars and rankings by player, but when several sites say that OSU's classes are bottom tier... Well, that means you and others best be right and all this development is happening... or about to?! Because somehow WT's best class has not had a great overall record (40-56/17-37) and 3-24 in Pac12 road games. So these lower ranked classes and future "development" must be the answer?! I guess the real crux of all the recruiting/development issues is based on one aspect that has been consistent and has shown NO improvement... offensive skill development within the concept of team play and offensive scheme. Since WT has been here our offensive production almost precludes us being in the top half of the Pac12: Pac12 rank Off / Def
'14-15 12 / 2 '15-16 10 / 5 '16-17 12 / 7 '17-18 10 / 2 So... either the recruiting sux in comparison to the rest of the Pac12 (which is the point right?), or the development sux, or combo of both??? I mean how in 4 years can you have an average offensive ranking of 11 out of 12 teams and say there is improvement in recruiting or players development??? Ok... so now... "rant" over 😝 PS... addition from above when you quoted me previously: But, brief refresher on improving from Jr to Sr year (or in Malcolm case his last year here): Player '14/15 '15/16 (pts/rebs/min per game) Malcolm 10.7/3.0/35 6.1/2.4/25 LMW 9.3/4.6/31 5.2/2.4/17 Olaf 7.8/3.3/30 6.4/2.9/23
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bill82
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Post by bill82 on May 3, 2018 3:04:26 GMT -8
His mix tape (see recruiting board) shows him driving the lane against players that are 6'2" -6'3." I'd like to see how he does against 6'8" and over. This could be a tough transition for him. I would not expect him to contribute the first year or two.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 3, 2018 8:26:58 GMT -8
Are you saying WT inherited good players? Then you complain that WT didn't give Alfred an early enough chance? Maybe I'm reading things wrong, maybe you are talking out of both sides of your face? WT gave Hollins enough time to average nearly 6 points a game his first year. The kids he inherited? The top scorer he inherited scored 4 points a game the year before WT got here. He had to coach up a bunch of kids fast, and he had a winning season and got them to the NCAA the next year. You spent the last three seasons telling us Tres isn't a difference maker, yet he was all league his sophomore year. A number of our current players have clearly become better players over the course of the last couple years. I generally agree with you on a lot of your points but i think you are quite off the mark on your WT doesn't develop players rants A) yep... you can't read. Not sure where I ever said he inherited good players, but the tourney was filled with guys be didn't recruit and certainly didn't transform in one off season. He went to the tourney because GPII stuck with OSU. So he sort did "inherit" his best player so far! B) "not a difference maker"... not sure those were ever my words. Could be, but doubt it as I don't spread the BS to say I remember 3 years of posts, let alone 3 years of other people's posts. That said... Tres was voted All Pac12 by coaches smarter than me. It doesn't change my opinion that although he's our best overall player, he's not going to lead this team anywhere. He's no GPII that is a great all-around player that can carry a team. A good player offensive player with limited hops/quicks on a bad offensive team who took approximately 23% of all the shots (Stevie took 23% also... Drew 14.8%). Also committed 22% of all turnovers. A good 2nd or 3rd option on a good team. But, again, MY OPINION. You're welcome to yours. C) far from "rants". THIS IS A RANT😜 D) look deeper on Hollins... 6 pts/game... he had 24% of his total pts in 2 of his 31 games. But, deeper... minutes were always sporadic until Berger hurt... NC games... 6 games with >10min, high of 20 = 7pt/g... then mixed in 6 games with <10 min, a DNP/suspended, 1 min, 2 min, 4 min, 5 min, 9 min = 1pt/g. Pac12... 4 games 103 min/25.8 ave and 69 pts/17.1 ave... 16 games 226 min/14 min and 62 pts/3.9. That is about as inconsistent as you can possibly use a player. Especially on a team starved for athleticism and offensive punch from somewhere besides the three guys taking 60% of the shots. Sad thing... he's twice the player... literally... that Seth was even with the sporadic PT. Seth scored 92 pts in 31 games... Hollins 179 and ended up with only 21 min more PT than Seth only because of an injury. Let's not even talk about the lack of using Big G who's pts/min (0.26) and reb/min (0.21) > Berger 0.23 and 0.17... Again... is this team, minus losses, plus recruits really significantly better on paper? And, if so, are they significantly better with respect to the rest of the Pac12? 247 says 10th in Pac12 w/ the new kid Building the Dam says 9th Scout says 10th ESPN says 10th Rivals says 9th I'm not a real believer in recruiting stars and rankings by player, but when several sites say that OSU's classes are bottom tier... Well, that means you and others best be right and all this development is happening... or about to?! Because somehow WT's best class has not had a great overall record (40-56/17-37) and 3-24 in Pac12 road games. So these lower ranked classes and future "development" must be the answer?! I guess the real crux of all the recruiting/development issues is based on one aspect that has been consistent and has shown NO improvement... offensive skill development within the concept of team play and offensive scheme. Since WT has been here our offensive production almost precludes us being in the top half of the Pac12: Pac12 rank Off / Def
'14-15 12 / 2 '15-16 10 / 5 '16-17 12 / 7 '17-18 10 / 2 So... either the recruiting sux in comparison to the rest of the Pac12 (which is the point right?), or the development sux, or combo of both??? I mean how in 4 years can you have an average offensive ranking of 11 out of 12 teams and say there is improvement in recruiting or players development??? Ok... so now... "rant" over 😝 PS... addition from above when you quoted me previously: But, brief refresher on improving from Jr to Sr year (or in Malcolm case his last year here): Player '14/15 '15/16 (pts/rebs/min per game) Malcolm 10.7/3.0/35 6.1/2.4/25 LMW 9.3/4.6/31 5.2/2.4/17 Olaf 7.8/3.3/30 6.4/2.9/23 One man’s Olaf/Malcolm/LMW reduction in stats can easily be another man’s statistical emergence of GP2/Eubanks/Tinkle/Thompson/Bruce... all of which were recruited at least in part by Wayne Tinkle and played a big part in getting to the Tournament. Oregon State’s top 4 producers that season were WT recruits. Isn’t that what you’re asking for... instant results? You are complaining that a kid straight out of high school was passed over by a kid with 3 seasons of college ball for a half season, but then complain when WT brings in new recruits that take playing time away from players who did very little under the previous coach.
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