2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Apr 23, 2018 16:36:24 GMT -8
I am a little surprised that the OSU WBB community here is as concerned as we appear about the post post-Gulich.
I do realize that Marie was very, very special.
But I believe that one of a few scenarios will play out to mostly solve that problem:
1) AA, PM and Jo are able to deliver Marie-like numbers "by committee", with AA and PM developing leaps and bounds from week to week.
2) AA is the 30 minute starter by December, and along with some freshman foibles, becomes a contributor with a high enough ceiling that we start buying Final Four tickets for subsequent seasons.
3) same as #2, but with PM as the diaper dandy (DickyV term)
4) Jo makes the "Kolbie leap" for her senior season, and makes 70% FTs
5) We realize Marie is just like Syd and no one can come close to replacing her, leading us to a dreadful season....wait, that didn't happen with Syd's departure either.....
I think the first 2 scenarios are the most likely.
You can't coach 6'7", 6'8" and 6'9".
Most of what we need the posts to do is affect shots, block shots, gather rebounds, take up position/space close to the basket, be a threat to score and make good on that threat ~45% of the time. Without using up 15 fouls too quickly. Inside-out passing would be good too.
I believe Jo was flustered by Pac-12 speed and talent, and hopefully with a season and summer worth of seasoning, she does better. Her stats (at the JuCo ranks, admittedly) indicate that she was doing good stuff out there.....
I think PM is going to surprise, but I really think we are selling AA short in all of this because of her landing at a school where its not clear she was able to stay on the trajectory she had been on - and that was a trajectory to the tune of being the #6 ranked player wanted by the UConns of the world. I think she could have footwork and mobility at a Marie or better level (maybe not day 1, mind you). I also think she has good range, and she knows what to do with the rock at the free throw line. And I hope to see her throw it down!
Between the three of them, I don't think the post is as concerning as we've made it.
And what is happening elsewhere will help immensely - I could see KTMac or Kat coming back much improved, which would make the posts harder to double and much more effective on the offensive end. KTMac could decide she wants a shot at the WNBA, for she has a somewhat unique skill set to make that happen.
This year, for most of the year, our passes were a split second late, especially entry passes inside. And the interior player had to be blatantly open. This is not just a Mik thing, to be clear. I suspect that problem goes away with Slocum on the floor. Many of our pressure TOs likely go away. There are only so many ways to prevent a lob pass 8+ feet high from getting where the passer wants it to get. We might see more TOs early as we push on a higher risk / higher reward strategy.....
Another good sign is a play I saw TC make against Baylor where she faked a pass to the outside and swung around to the basket for a lay in. And her entry passing was improving leaps and bounds. Blocking out was trending up. She has really been improving a lot. I could see some of the minutes when TC is taking a breather given to AA or PM, though I hope Maddie and Janessa make the "Kolbie leap"......I saw Aleah start to handle the ball against pressure with a lot more confidence. We have an embarrassment of riches at the guard position next year, and can play a lot more pressure and energy-expending D if we so choose, further taking pressure off the post.
The wildcard is what Maddie and Janessa and Kalmer do in the off season. Can one of them *really* progress this coming year? Mik was playing "out of character", and her return to character should help us as well.
I don't know if all my optimism translates to returning to Pac-12 champ standings however. Our biggest concern should be several of the other Pac-12 teams will be tougher outs next year than they were this year with talent and coaching infusions.....I wouldn't be surprised if we are 4th or 5th in the Pac-12 again, with a few more losses. But I don't think that is going to be caused solely by deficiencies in the post, and I suspect we won't have a plethora of post problems.
(And I put my money where my mouth is by buying season tix for WBB today).
Go Beavers!
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Post by beavsteve on Apr 23, 2018 18:17:28 GMT -8
Another scenario is that PM, AA and JG don’t contribute much offensively (though the contribute defensively and on the boards), but the offensive production of Marie is made up for by Slocom’s ability to distribute the ball, improvement in other players, and the addition of a prolific scorer in Jazz Simmons. I still think Jo will initially start, but PM will take over at center once she learns Rueck’s defense... however he will give both AA and PM a lot of playing time in the non-conference season. My prediction is that AA plays forward and we eventually see AA and PM on the floor together (hopefully in time for the Pac-12 season, when we start seeing a lot more size and toughnes in the competition).
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Post by bennyskid on Apr 23, 2018 19:26:20 GMT -8
I may be a little optimistic, but I think J-Thro is in that rotation. I suspect that a healthy Janessa would be a defensive antidote against running teams that might fluster the bigger gals. I think the post-by-committee will be merely adequate, but Katie and Destiny will be all-conference, Jazz will be FOY, everyone else will be what we think they are, and that will be enough for a Top-10, contend-for-the-Pac-title season.
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Apr 23, 2018 20:09:58 GMT -8
I really have no idea who is going to be our 5 next year. While she probably won't start I like Janessa. She had the second fastest mile time last fall and has the lower body strength to hold her own under the basket. The times she did play in the last couple years have not been long enough our consistent enough for her to get comfortable. If, and it is a big if, she can stay healthy she just might find herself getting some minutes.
Jo is going to start at least in the beginning. She did show improvement as the season went on, hopefully she will come into her own over the summer.
PM and AA are real unknowns. I assume they will be on campus in June and it will be up to KtMac and the rest of the team to get them started on the right path. It is a long time until the coaches can work with them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 5:42:05 GMT -8
PM and AA are real unknowns. I assume they will be on campus in June and it will be up to KtMac and the rest of the team to get them started on the right path. It is a long time until the coaches can work with them. I think the coaches can work with them during the summer.... 17.1.7.2.1.5.1 Basketball. In basketball, a student-athlete who is enrolled in summer school may engage in required weight-training, conditioning and skill-related instruction for up to eight weeks (not required to be consecutive weeks). A student-athlete who is enrolled in at least three degree-applicable (pursuant to Bylaw 14.4.3.1.7) credit hours in one summer term that is fewer than eight weeks in duration may engage in required weight-training, conditioning and skill-related instruction for up to eight weeks (not required to be consecutive weeks). Participation in such activities shall be limited to a maximum of eight hours per week with not more than two hours per week spent on skill-related instruction. (Adopted: 1/14/12, Revised: 1/19/13, 4/28/16)web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8823That would equate to 16 one-hour sessions of "skill-related instruction". |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 9:54:39 GMT -8
At 6'9" and with shooting touch, AA is unstoppable within 5 feet of the basket. And with Destiny's passing, we WILL get her the ball inside 5 feet. So offensively, I see AA as a huge asset from day 1. Rebounding and defense will require some further development. And PM has the raw athleticism to be a terrific player. She just needs someone to finally teach her good technique. And someone speculated that she was listed at 6'7" but might still be growing. That would be neat, huh? By the time we meet UCONN in the finals, AA's and PM's skills will be highly polished. You can bank on it. Buy season tickets now. I am thickhead, and I have spoken.
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Post by jdogge on Apr 24, 2018 10:45:57 GMT -8
At 6'9" and with shooting touch, AA is unstoppable within 5 feet of the basket. And with Destiny's passing, we WILL get her the ball inside 5 feet. So offensively, I see AA as a huge asset from day 1. Rebounding and defense will require some further development. And PM has the raw athleticism to be a terrific player. She just needs someone to finally teach her good technique. And someone speculated that she was listed at 6'7" but might still be growing. That would be neat, huh? By the time we meet UCONN in the finals, AA's and PM's skills will be highly polished. You can bank on it. Buy season tickets now. I am thickhead, and I have spoken. And these girls are still growing. I expect AA and PM will each be 2" taller by the end of their freshman season. |
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lefty
Freshman
Posts: 441
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Post by lefty on Apr 24, 2018 11:19:48 GMT -8
I guess I must be a Negative Nellie on this bed of roses although I hope I will be proven wrong. At the beginning of the year I thought that we would go as far as Marie would take us. She far exceeded my expectations! In my opinion Marie is the best post in the country. Her inside moves and her ability to create open fade away (drop step) shots is unmatched by anyone. Add to that her speed and quickness and you have standard which all will be measured by. Her leadership will be very hard to replace. I remember one play in the tournament where Mik got tangled up in a Baylor's player arms on a rebound and ended up on the ground. You could see in Mik's face that she was frustrated, mad, upset and on the verge of losing her game control concentration. A conversation from Marie is all that it took to bring Mik back and you could see it in her face. Hopefully Destiny can be that leader.
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Post by newduke2 on Apr 24, 2018 11:43:15 GMT -8
At 6'9" and with shooting touch, AA is unstoppable within 5 feet of the basket. And with Destiny's passing, we WILL get her the ball inside 5 feet. So offensively, I see AA as a huge asset from day 1. Rebounding and defense will require some further development. And PM has the raw athleticism to be a terrific player. She just needs someone to finally teach her good technique. And someone speculated that she was listed at 6'7" but might still be growing. That would be neat, huh? By the time we meet UCONN in the finals, AA's and PM's skills will be highly polished. You can bank on it. Buy season tickets now. I am thickhead, and I have spoken. And these girls are still growing. I expect AA and PM will each be 2" taller by the end of their freshman season. IMO you're too negative and underestimating their future growth. |
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Post by beaverstever on Apr 24, 2018 11:46:22 GMT -8
I guess I must be a Negative Nellie on this bed of roses although I hope I will be proven wrong. At the beginning of the year I thought that we would go as far as Marie would take us. She far exceeded my expectations! In my opinion Marie is the best post in the country. Her inside moves and her ability to create open fade away (drop step) shots is unmatched by anyone. Add to that her speed and quickness and you have standard which all will be measured by. Her leadership will be very hard to replace. I remember one play in the tournament where Mik got tangled up in a Baylor's player arms on a rebound and ended up on the ground. You could see in Mik's face that she was frustrated, mad, upset and on the verge of losing her game control concentration. A conversation from Marie is all that it took to bring Mik back and you could see it in her face. Hopefully Destiny can be that leader. While I totally agree that the Marie was absolutely THE leader on last year's team, note that she was not that leader in previous years, and hadn't even an inkling of becoming that leader when she arrived (per her interviews). So then what made her decide to and become that leader? While some of it may be innate, we keep seeing our upper-classwomen repeatedly stepping up into being these types of leaders - so it's clearly inherent in how the program develops players. While I do see Destiny absorbing this type of roll earlier in her time at OSU, I expect Katie and probably Mik to be the ones filling this role next year. But it could be more interesting than the past, because we have a lot more alphas in the younger groups that may press to lead earlier. Recall that GP was who he was upon arriving at campus, despite attempts by older players to put him in his place -- they just weren't good enough to keep him from leading immediately. |
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Post by beavershoopsfan on Apr 24, 2018 12:22:34 GMT -8
I guess I must be a Negative Nellie on this bed of roses although I hope I will be proven wrong. At the beginning of the year I thought that we would go as far as Marie would take us. She far exceeded my expectations! In my opinion Marie is the best post in the country. Her inside moves and her ability to create open fade away (drop step) shots is unmatched by anyone. Add to that her speed and quickness and you have standard which all will be measured by. Her leadership will be very hard to replace. I remember one play in the tournament where Mik got tangled up in a Baylor's player arms on a rebound and ended up on the ground. You could see in Mik's face that she was frustrated, mad, upset and on the verge of losing her game control concentration. A conversation from Marie is all that it took to bring Mik back and you could see it in her face. Hopefully Destiny can be that leader. Lefty, I think the incident that you are referring to occurred during the Beavs' loss to Louisville (not against Baylor) during the second half of the Elite Eight game in Lexington. There was a considerable video review delay following that play that you referenced. Pivec was knocked down by a box out by Louisville guard Arica Carter outside the key as Pivec attempted to get around the box out. Carter then drug her foot over Pivec's body as Carter fell. Next, Carter flailed at Pivec with one foot as Pivec was attempting to get up. Carter was assessed an unsportsmanlike foul (Flagrant 1) after the video review and the Beavs were awarded two free throws that Kat Tudor took and made. If the refs had concluded that Carter had connected with her foot, the video review likely would resulted in Carter being ejected from the game. I had zero issue with how Pivec attempted to protect herself during the incident and responded after the kick attempt by Carter. Players need to be ready to protect themselves at all times. I don't expect a player to react emotionlessly when an opponent takes a swipe at them. I expect the player to rise up and get in a position to protect oneself. If you played basketball in your day, you will remember that it can be a very physical and emotional game. I was pleased that Pivec did not take a retaliatory swing at Carter and hurt her team. Players can't be expected to simply take unsportsmanlike play from an opponent and not show their displeasure. They aren't robots. I agree with your sentiment that Marie was an outstanding leader for the squad this past season. She exceeded my expectations in that regard for how she effectively she seemed to gather her teammates and attempt to redirect their focus when needed. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Apr 24, 2018 13:38:21 GMT -8
At 6'9" and with shooting touch, AA is unstoppable within 5 feet of the basket. And with Destiny's passing, we WILL get her the ball inside 5 feet. So offensively, I see AA as a huge asset from day 1. Rebounding and defense will require some further development. And PM has the raw athleticism to be a terrific player. She just needs someone to finally teach her good technique. And someone speculated that she was listed at 6'7" but might still be growing. That would be neat, huh? By the time we meet UCONN in the finals, AA's and PM's skills will be highly polished. You can bank on it. Buy season tickets now. I am thickhead, and I have spoken. We have also seen what contributors ranked in the 20-30 range of HoopGurlz Top 100 can contribute in the form of Mik and Taya. One would think that AA would have at least similar levels of contribution. I think your assessment is in line with that level of contribution (well, mostly - you needed to say "By the time we beat UConn" not "meet" :-). Go Beavers! |
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Post by mbabeav on Apr 24, 2018 14:40:21 GMT -8
PM and AA are real unknowns. I assume they will be on campus in June and it will be up to KtMac and the rest of the team to get them started on the right path. It is a long time until the coaches can work with them. I think the coaches can work with them during the summer.... 17.1.7.2.1.5.1 Basketball. In basketball, a student-athlete who is enrolled in summer school may engage in required weight-training, conditioning and skill-related instruction for up to eight weeks (not required to be consecutive weeks). A student-athlete who is enrolled in at least three degree-applicable (pursuant to Bylaw 14.4.3.1.7) credit hours in one summer term that is fewer than eight weeks in duration may engage in required weight-training, conditioning and skill-related instruction for up to eight weeks (not required to be consecutive weeks). Participation in such activities shall be limited to a maximum of eight hours per week with not more than two hours per week spent on skill-related instruction. (Adopted: 1/14/12, Revised: 1/19/13, 4/28/16)web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/bylawView?id=8823That would equate to 16 one-hour sessions of "skill-related instruction". I expect that there is going to be a lot of player on player coaching - maybe not the staff able to run them through drills, but these kids are gym rats, and it should be interesting to see where things are that opening day of Fall practice. We need Midnight Madness! |
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Apr 24, 2018 17:10:22 GMT -8
The last couple of years I don't believe that the freshman were taking classes therefore they would not be allowed to receive coaching. I do believe that they can still work with the s&c staff. Just not on the court, just ask the schumcks.
Actual practices can't start until 10 weeks before the first official game.
KtMac will do a great job keeping everyone together.
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Post by beaveragain on Apr 24, 2018 22:22:17 GMT -8
I find it interesting that earlier in the season it was all wait till next season when Destiny plays, and now it's doom doom, Marie is gone and it is all DOOOOM.
According to some Jo is so bad that BPHART was obviously worthless because it showed Jo as the statistically 2nd best player on the team.
Jo is not Marie. Different height, weight, movement etc, so if you expect her to replace Marie's points, rebounds and blocks you will be disappointed. But she does seem to have Marie's grit/determination. From the beginning of the season to then end her rebounding improved a lot. Those 50% balls that SR talks about Jo didn't get at the start of the season, and by the end she was holding her own against Baylor and Louisville. Two of the best rebounding teams in the country.
Offensively Jo was passed the ball as if she was Marie, and that was too low and too far out. Once her teammates start giving her the ball when and where Jo needs it I think she will score enough to keep the defense honest. And that is what the teams needs. They have enough offensive weapons to take care of most of the scoring.
I will be mildly surprised if Jo doesn't make the all pac 12 team at the end of the season. Although that shouldn't be all that difficult, as according to this past season's all pac 12 team there was only one center playing in the pac 12.
AA is going to see some playing time this coming season, but she was pushed around by high school bigs and pooped out regularly (as evidenced by frequent walking around). After she gets in better physical shape I foresee her becoming a terror on the court. But not next season.
PM is just not ready to play pac 12 basketball. SR may get desperate for some relief for Jo and toss her in but I would not be surprised if she was red shirted this next season. PM is willing to throw herself into the D and has the right attitude for getting rebounds. But all the rest of it isn't there yet. I think she is athletic and has the height so that she can become a star. But she needs a lot of work to get there. Luckily for her she is with a team that can make her an all-american if she's willing to put in the work.
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