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Post by beaverstever on Mar 9, 2018 16:40:30 GMT -8
Since the PG topic keeps coming up, might as well raise this subject. I know this gets some folks rankles up, but I find it interesting to see what happened with those that bailed. Malcolm: 2nd leading scorer on a sub-500 team in a mid-major www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2006/akron-zipsHis numbers were up across the board, vs weaker competition. TOs were way up as well. He would have taken away minutes from Ethan, and would have been a bit more efficient based on the numbers. Derrick: 3rd leading scorer with minutes way up, against much weaker competition in the conference season (but not preseason, they played an impressive preseason schedule). His 3pt FG% came back to earth compared to at OSU. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3914284/derrick-bruceWould having either of these guys been the difference this year? Their modestly more efficient seasons compared to Ethan's suggests they would have, a bit - and with so many close games, it could have meant a handful of more Ws. However, that assumes a lot - they may not have played as efficiently at OSU, been disgruntled at the logjam at the guard spot, or in general (e.g. JaQuori wasn't starved for minutes when he left). Bruce's numbers in particular would have put him as the best 3pt and FT shooter on the team - and by a ways for the starters. Note though that his preseason numbers were not trending that way at much closer (albeit generally better) compared Pac-12 comp, so that might not have played out that way. Likely neither make a huge difference, but maybe NIT-bound. In any case, not bemoaning this at all - it's just interesting to me how fine a line this season's outcomes were. |
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Post by seastape on Mar 9, 2018 19:13:31 GMT -8
It's not just the numbers, it's the fact that a true PG can (or should be able to) break a press and get the ball in better position on the offense.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 9, 2018 19:35:31 GMT -8
Since the PG topic keeps coming up, might as well raise this subject. I know this gets some folks rankles up, but I find it interesting to see what happened with those that bailed. Malcolm: 2nd leading scorer on a sub-500 team in a mid-major www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2006/akron-zipsHis numbers were up across the board, vs weaker competition. TOs were way up as well. He would have taken away minutes from Ethan, and would have been a bit more efficient based on the numbers. Derrick: 3rd leading scorer with minutes way up, against much weaker competition in the conference season (but not preseason, they played an impressive preseason schedule). His 3pt FG% came back to earth compared to at OSU. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/3914284/derrick-bruceWould having either of these guys been the difference this year? Their modestly more efficient seasons compared to Ethan's suggests they would have, a bit - and with so many close games, it could have meant a handful of more Ws. However, that assumes a lot - they may not have played as efficiently at OSU, been disgruntled at the logjam at the guard spot, or in general (e.g. JaQuori wasn't starved for minutes when he left). Bruce's numbers in particular would have put him as the best 3pt and FT shooter on the team - and by a ways for the starters. Note though that his preseason numbers were not trending that way at much closer (albeit generally better) compared Pac-12 comp, so that might not have played out that way. Likely neither make a huge difference, but maybe NIT-bound. In any case, not bemoaning this at all - it's just interesting to me how fine a line this season's outcomes were. Malcolm is not a PG. Bruce flunked out so he couldn’t have helped. JM also flunked out, so Tinks didn’t have a lot of options this year. |
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Post by aicandme on Mar 9, 2018 20:14:56 GMT -8
Bruce flunked out 2 years ago. JM didn't flunk out. WT had no options due to his lack of recruiting.
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Post by ochobeavo on Mar 9, 2018 22:48:40 GMT -8
Speaking of ex PG's, Hallice Cooke is still playing. He's at Nevada now, Iowa State before that... Feels like he played here 10 years ago!
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Post by steinlager on Mar 9, 2018 23:04:34 GMT -8
The Beavs point guard situation lately has been like being a drummer for Spinal Tap. With all the bigs signed for next year I hope we can squeeze in a good JC or senior transfer point guard.
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Post by Judge Smails on Mar 10, 2018 6:31:37 GMT -8
Bruce flunked out 2 years ago. JM didn't flunk out. WT had no options due to his lack of recruiting. [b Ok, technically JM didn’t flunk out. He was just about to |
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Post by greshambeaver on Mar 10, 2018 12:46:45 GMT -8
There has to be a rough diamond out there somewhere, although I am very sure that this staff is nowhere near the evaluating group that we enjoyed during the 70's and 80's. Of course not many are.
Recently think Damian Lilliard, then of course there was Gary out of Oakland also. Maybe OSU should re-evaluate every high school Junior and Senior in the Oakland area.
Gary was known to be a good high school basketball player, but if anyone had told you he would end up being a College All American and an NBA HOF'er most of us would have told him or her that they were nuts.
The right guy is out there, but many rocks need to be turned over and we would have to be very lucky...
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Post by obf on Mar 12, 2018 9:21:37 GMT -8
I think both Malcolm and Bruce would have helped this team a bunch.
Malcolm in a non flashy, but stable way. PJ/Derrick/Whatever in a more exuberant and obvious way, probably would have been the 2nd or 3rd highest scorer on the team, and would have added a much needed fiery attitude.
But they chose to leave / not study... so it doesn't really matter...
However, going forward, Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern... That is three point guards (JM being the latest) that all would have helped or were highly rated that have left OSU on less than great terms... I am guessing that them all being point guards is random, but kids not being able to pass there classes isn't. If I was Barnes I would be concerned about this. For whatever warts WT has as a X's and O's coach, all the basketball acumen in the world won't make up for the players not being on the court (or in school)...
Come on guys, gotta study! It really isn't that hard!
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Post by TheGlove on Mar 12, 2018 9:36:13 GMT -8
I think both Malcolm and Bruce would have helped this team a bunch. Malcolm in a non flashy, but stable way. PJ/Derrick/Whatever in a more exuberant and obvious way, probably would have been the 2nd or 3rd highest scorer on the team, and would have added a much needed fiery attitude. But they chose to leave / not study... so it doesn't really matter... However, going forward, Once Is Chance, Twice is Coincidence, Third Time Is A Pattern... That is three point guards (JM being the latest) that all would have helped or were highly rated that have left OSU on less than great terms... I am guessing that them all being point guards is random, but kids not being able to pass there classes isn't. If I was Barnes I would be concerned about this. For whatever warts WT has as a X's and O's coach, all the basketball acumen in the world won't make up for the players not being on the court (or in school)... Come on guys, gotta study! It really isn't that hard! Don't forget Carson Cunningham! |
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Post by ochobeavo on Mar 12, 2018 9:55:51 GMT -8
Out of high school, JM was offered by Cal, Washington, Stanford, Zona, Utah, Wisconsin, Gonzaga and Utah so I don't think struggling with class at the college level was on anyone's radar at the time.
And given nearly half our team was just recognized academically, clearly we have the system in place to help kids succeed. So that one is clearly on Jacqori IMO - and sometimes 18-19 year old kids just figure things out the hard way.
I don't believe Malcolm left on bad terms. He went through some serious personal stuff - believe it was his brother who passed away - came back after his leave of absence and graduated and then had a chance to be much closer to home (Toronto).
IIRC, we were also the only D1 school to offer Bruce out of HS. So yeah, he was probably a known academic risk coming in..
We can add Ronnie Stacy to the Spinal Tap list of PG misses as well.
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Post by cbeavs1 on Mar 12, 2018 16:04:49 GMT -8
I don't think it all hinges on the individual skills and production although that is certainly an obvious ramification if one or all of them stayed (for those that could because of academics).
Even with moderate statistical success, I think just as big of contribution would be that we would have one more person adding to our depth. Our starters continually wore down as games progressed into the second half. We had no real depth coming off our bench. As I have stated before, there aren't really any Division players on our bench. Having one or two point guards stay would have helped us in that area. Not just in playing fewer minutes per person but also to alleviate the pressure on one of the shooting guards who expendedg a great deal of energy trying to bring the ball up the court.
We need a point guard and actually two for all future years if we are to have success.
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