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Post by beaverstever on Feb 11, 2018 22:35:05 GMT -8
Going into the last 3 weekends, one game separates 2-9th place. UA, the only ranked team in the conference currently and hasn't run even ran away with it. I don't think mathematically OSU is yet eliminated from winning the conference, although I haven't run all the scenarios. And that loss we just handed the huskies? They would have been in 2nd place, and instead tied for 4th. That put a smile on my face. pac-12.com/mens-basketball/standings
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 12, 2018 7:57:05 GMT -8
Going into the last 3 weekends, one game separates 2-9th place. UA, the only ranked team in the conference currently and hasn't run even ran away with it. I don't think mathematically OSU is yet eliminated from winning the conference, although I haven't run all the scenarios. And that loss we just handed the huskies? They would have been in 2nd place, and instead tied for 4th. That put a smile on my face. pac-12.com/mens-basketball/standingsMakes the loss to ASU and to Cal SUPER frustrating. I think our record should be better, but I am going to comfort myself by saying at least our losses were close. We can run with any team in this conference, just gotta do it for 40 minutes (or 50...)
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Post by poohappens on Feb 12, 2018 10:28:44 GMT -8
The USC loss at home was a tough one as well.
Our league record (overall as well) would look a lot better with those three being wins.
Need to somehow get a split down in SoCal this week to keep the positive momentum going.
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Post by joeavocado on Feb 12, 2018 10:58:18 GMT -8
Another year of bad OOC losses doomed OSU again this season, losses to: -Last place team in Big East, RPI 67 (neutral court) -7th place team in MAC, RPI 174 (road) -5th place team in Big West, RPI 195 (neutral) -5th place team in Mountain West, RPI 72 (home)
Add the brutal loss to Cal (RPI 190), even with a couple more conference wins it doesn't change the fact this is a very inconsistent and frustrating season. Based on non-conference performance, OSU is the 10th best team in the conference and is on track to finish there. Too bad because this a down season across the PAC12, maybe worse than MWC or WCC, and it wouldn't have taken much to finish in the Top 3.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 12, 2018 11:05:03 GMT -8
I think the loss in conference that burns the most for me is the Utah game. I still feel as if we had that one legitimately stolen from us on a night where we were clearly the better team. This team could very realistically be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference right now.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 12, 2018 11:22:18 GMT -8
I think the loss in conference that burns the most for me is the Utah game. I still feel as if we had that one legitimately stolen from us on a night where we were clearly the better team. This team could very realistically be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference right now. Wow... you see this team as a 8-4 or 9-3 team? Really? Just how many wish a, could a should a's does that involve? And do they go the other way in a couple of the 5 Ws? This team is exactly where it has played itself into. In fact to be 2.5 games out of 2nd is more about how mediocre the Pac12 is than how OSU was screwed out of Ws. Going 3-3 the last 6 would actually be a huge improvement... and surprise since it'll involve road win(s). (Although at least this year we're competitive... -6.6 I Pac12 roadies) I don't see it happening. As inconsistent as they have been, one consistency... play poorly after reviving "hope" that they're playing better! 7-11/15-15 is kinda where I see this headed... rematch with Cal in 1st rd.
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Post by atownbeaver on Feb 12, 2018 11:44:54 GMT -8
I think the loss in conference that burns the most for me is the Utah game. I still feel as if we had that one legitimately stolen from us on a night where we were clearly the better team. This team could very realistically be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference right now. Wow... you see this team as a 8-4 or 9-3 team? Really? Just how many wish a, could a should a's does that involve? And do they go the other way in a couple of the 5 Ws? This team is exactly where it has played itself into. In fact to be 2.5 games out of 2nd is more about how mediocre the Pac12 is than how OSU was screwed out of Ws. Going 3-3 the last 6 would actually be a huge improvement... and surprise since it'll involve road win(s). (Although at least this year we're competitive... -6.6 I Pac12 roadies) I don't see it happening. As inconsistent as they have been, one consistency... play poorly after reviving "hope" that they're playing better! 7-11/15-15 is kinda where I see this headed... rematch with Cal in 1st rd. Isn't exactly ludicrous. Utah was a two point loss ASU was a two point loss on the road Cal was a four point loss and a terrible effort on the road. 3 wins we had in the bag and didn't... and an 8-4 record instead of 5-7. It isn't crazy talk at all, and isn't a mountain of woulda, shoulda, couldas. This team is better than it's record. WHY it's record isn't as good is a topic of debate, and likely ultimately a coaching issue at heart. I am mostly a Tinkle defender, but his hesitation with his rotation and heavy minutes to the starters probably played a big role in those 3 games. (Utah really was just a con job...)
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Post by ochobeavo on Feb 12, 2018 11:57:16 GMT -8
I think the loss in conference that burns the most for me is the Utah game. I still feel as if we had that one legitimately stolen from us on a night where we were clearly the better team. This team could very realistically be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference right now. There's about 4-5 games conference games that coulda woulda shoulda gone differently. Shoot, forget 9-3, I'd just take 2 flippin games out of: Utah - 2 pt loss at home ASU - up 13 with 8 minutes left Cal - just completely sh*tting the bed against a team on a 9 game losing streak. Stanford - spotting them a 23-5 lead to start the game. Defense developing allergic reaction to Reid Travis. USC - at home, 7 pt lead with 8:00 to go. 18-0 run by SC. 4pts / 5 fouls out of Drew. Not to mention we had 3 OOC games that we just flat out gave away: St Johns (led for about 35 minutes), LBSU and Kent. We lost to Kent. That's the difference between having an NIT discussion right now (which I could live with) and a CBI discussion (oh gawd no). ugh.
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 12, 2018 11:58:32 GMT -8
I tend to agree that the record isn't deceptive on this team. While we lost some close ones, but we were very fortunate to win vs. UW, Jacksonville St. and UCLA. And some of our closer losses weren't really that close IMO - the Arizona and USC games for instance were games where we never really threatened. Even ASU and Utah were both games where we were down late and clawing our way back to get a chance at the end - that situation very often doesn't go the direction of the trailing team because it usually means forcing teams to lose at the FT line. The bottom line is that this team hasn't figured out how to win on the road still, and until that happens, we can't be even be a conference .500 team by definition. No other team outside of WSU hasn't won on the road, and only Colorado has less than one road win of teams above us: www.google.co.in/search?q=standings+pac-12&oq=standings+pac-12&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3.11436j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=lg;/g/11c6w0gymx;3;/g/11ckvf54fz;st;fp;1But I agree, it is super frustrating, this was a year that was wide open to finish well, and we didn't gel in time. However, there's still the opportunity to gel by the Pac-12 tournament and make a run - with some luck in the matchups and consistent play, the opportunity is there. Let's get some wins on the road to show this team can have the fortitude to make that a possibility.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 12, 2018 12:02:46 GMT -8
Wow... you see this team as a 8-4 or 9-3 team? Really? Just how many wish a, could a should a's does that involve? And do they go the other way in a couple of the 5 Ws? This team is exactly where it has played itself into. In fact to be 2.5 games out of 2nd is more about how mediocre the Pac12 is than how OSU was screwed out of Ws. Going 3-3 the last 6 would actually be a huge improvement... and surprise since it'll involve road win(s). (Although at least this year we're competitive... -6.6 I Pac12 roadies) I don't see it happening. As inconsistent as they have been, one consistency... play poorly after reviving "hope" that they're playing better! 7-11/15-15 is kinda where I see this headed... rematch with Cal in 1st rd. Isn't exactly ludicrous. Utah was a two point loss ASU was a two point loss on the road Cal was a four point loss and a terrible effort on the road. 3 wins we had in the bag and didn't... and an 8-4 record instead of 5-7. It isn't crazy talk at all, and isn't a mountain of woulda, shoulda, couldas. This team is better than it's record. WHY it's record isn't as good is a topic of debate, and likely ultimately a coaching issue at heart. I am mostly a Tinkle defender, but his hesitation with his rotation and heavy minutes to the starters probably played a big role in those 3 games. (Utah really was just a nicon job...) Take the same look at the Ws... like the last one... this is a .500 team vs a very weak OC schedule and 5-7 vs a weak conference. Really no other way to paint it... it's what they are and its not officiating that caused them to not take advantage.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 12, 2018 12:46:25 GMT -8
Isn't exactly ludicrous. Utah was a two point loss ASU was a two point loss on the road Cal was a four point loss and a terrible effort on the road. 3 wins we had in the bag and didn't... and an 8-4 record instead of 5-7. It isn't crazy talk at all, and isn't a mountain of woulda, shoulda, couldas. This team is better than it's record. WHY it's record isn't as good is a topic of debate, and likely ultimately a coaching issue at heart. I am mostly a Tinkle defender, but his hesitation with his rotation and heavy minutes to the starters probably played a big role in those 3 games. (Utah really was just a nicon job...) Take the same look at the Ws... like the last one... this is a .500 team vs a very weak OC schedule and 5-7 vs a weak conference. Really no other way to paint it... it's what they are and its not officiating that caused them to not take advantage. I don't disagree with you regarding the fact that a number of the wins could have gone either way as well. All I was saying was that this team COULD be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference play if things had gone their way. I agree that they probably are about where they deserve to be, however I still think there are more games that we will look back on this year and wonder how we didn't come out on top rather than wondering how we managed to win. The Utah game I do attribute much of the last 4 or 5 minutes to the way the game was officiated. Could we have won in spite of that still? Absolutely, but it sure makes it a lot more difficult to do that when the game gets turned on its head the way it did. There are also games this year where this team has completely dominated the opposition (Oregon, Colorado, WSU) and they have also led in almost all of the games they have lost and have not lost by more than 9 all year. This team is or should be better than their record and I think we can both at the very least agree that it has been frustrating to witness.
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Post by baseba1111 on Feb 12, 2018 12:56:02 GMT -8
Take the same look at the Ws... like the last one... this is a .500 team vs a very weak OC schedule and 5-7 vs a weak conference. Really no other way to paint it... it's what they are and its not officiating that caused them to not take advantage. I don't disagree with you regarding the fact that a number of the wins could have gone either way as well. All I was saying was that this team COULD be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference play if things had gone their way. I agree that they probably are about where they deserve to be, however I still think there are more games that we will look back on this year and wonder how we didn't come out on top rather than wondering how we managed to win. The Utah game I do attribute much of the last 4 or 5 minutes to the way the game was officiated. Could we have won in spite of that still? Absolutely, but it sure makes it a lot more difficult to do that when the game gets turned on its head the way it did. There are also games this year where this team has completely dominated the opposition (Oregon, Colorado, WSU) and they have also led in almost all of the games they have lost and have not lost by more than 9 all year. This team is or should be better than their record and I think we can both at the very least agree that it has been frustrating to witness. My reply was honestly asking... do you really see this as a 8-4 or better type team? Coaching decisions (especially the shortening the bench), teaching/overall improvement of players, depth/trusting the guys recruited, overall play... I see the logic in the "more wins", but not the ability to take advantage of those opportunities. WT is not a terrible coach. But for a guy with HCing experience I see a lot of the same deficiencies I saw in CR who was basically learning how to be a HC on the fly. A grad transfer or JC pg is a MUST for next year or we'll see the same inconsistent play of guys out of position. Next year is make or break for WT. With a good or better pg he'll never have this much talent assembled for the foreseeable future.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on Feb 12, 2018 13:02:41 GMT -8
I tend to agree that the record isn't deceptive on this team. While we lost some close ones, but we were very fortunate to win vs. UW, Jacksonville St. and UCLA. And some of our closer losses weren't really that close IMO - the Arizona and USC games for instance were games where we never really threatened. Even ASU and Utah were both games where we were down late and clawing our way back to get a chance at the end - that situation very often doesn't go the direction of the trailing team because it usually means forcing teams to lose at the FT line. The bottom line is that this team hasn't figured out how to win on the road still, and until that happens, we can't be even be a conference .500 team by definition. No other team outside of WSU hasn't won on the road, and only Colorado has less than one road win of teams above us: www.google.co.in/search?q=standings+pac-12&oq=standings+pac-12&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3.11436j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=lg;/g/11c6w0gymx;3;/g/11ckvf54fz;st;fp;1But I agree, it is super frustrating, this was a year that was wide open to finish well, and we didn't gel in time. However, there's still the opportunity to gel by the Pac-12 tournament and make a run - with some luck in the matchups and consistent play, the opportunity is there. Let's get some wins on the road to show this team can have the fortitude to make that a possibility. I tend to disagree that those games you mentioned were games that we didn't threaten. Arizona I get to some extent, but we led for a majority of the game, they were simply the better team in the end which is understandable. USC we led a majority of the 2nd half and if it weren't for this teams inexplicable tendency to go on 6-7 minute scoring droughts it should've been a comfortable win. ASU essentially the same thing happened. This team needs to learn how to finish these games and get a little more offensive consistency. Hopefully you're right and this team can make a run in the tournament. I know I'll be there cheering them on. Go beavs!
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Post by beaverstever on Feb 12, 2018 14:12:25 GMT -8
I tend to agree that the record isn't deceptive on this team. While we lost some close ones, but we were very fortunate to win vs. UW, Jacksonville St. and UCLA. And some of our closer losses weren't really that close IMO - the Arizona and USC games for instance were games where we never really threatened. Even ASU and Utah were both games where we were down late and clawing our way back to get a chance at the end - that situation very often doesn't go the direction of the trailing team because it usually means forcing teams to lose at the FT line. The bottom line is that this team hasn't figured out how to win on the road still, and until that happens, we can't be even be a conference .500 team by definition. No other team outside of WSU hasn't won on the road, and only Colorado has less than one road win of teams above us: www.google.co.in/search?q=standings+pac-12&oq=standings+pac-12&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i60l3.11436j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=lg;/g/11c6w0gymx;3;/g/11ckvf54fz;st;fp;1But I agree, it is super frustrating, this was a year that was wide open to finish well, and we didn't gel in time. However, there's still the opportunity to gel by the Pac-12 tournament and make a run - with some luck in the matchups and consistent play, the opportunity is there. Let's get some wins on the road to show this team can have the fortitude to make that a possibility. I tend to disagree that those games you mentioned were games that we didn't threaten. Arizona I get to some extent, but we led for a majority of the game, they were simply the better team in the end which is understandable. USC we led a majority of the 2nd half and if it weren't for this teams inexplicable tendency to go on 6-7 minute scoring droughts it should've been a comfortable win. ASU essentially the same thing happened. This team needs to learn how to finish these games and get a little more offensive consistency. Hopefully you're right and this team can make a run in the tournament. I know I'll be there cheering them on. Go beavs! I don't think those droughts are inexplicable at all though. Those are always the difference in competitive games - at some point, a team exerts their will and creates a delta, and then can simply trade baskets if the opposition isn't able to exert the same kind of pressure of creating a counter-run. The UA game in particular had that feel to me - I was never comfortable that we could handle a concerted effort at a run by them. ASU had less of a dominating capability, but they were able to effectively do the same when it counted. In the ASU game, we gave them a huge gut punch with a dominant run earlier in the game that we weren't able to hold with trading baskets. I agree about learning how to finish, but you can have a team finished with 10 minutes left in the game - if you never let them get closer than 8 points by crunch time, the game is pretty much in the bag withstanding some serious heroics (see UW game). So by 'finish', it means trade baskets and/or make runs - and allowing no long counter-runs. It was great to see our ladies do that to UW - up +30 in the first quarter, and then either traded baskets or added small runs to it, ultimately winning by 38. By contrast, the mens team would be willing to let it slip into the 20s and teens by losing focus and not preventing any counter run, whether it ultimately mattered or not - we saw this in the preseason games, such as vs. LMU. Rueck talked about it in the post-game, focusing on getting stops throughout the game as the #1 thing to focus on throughout the game. Until our men establish this mentality, I'm afraid these difference-making droughts will continue to be explicable.
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Post by justdamwin on Feb 12, 2018 18:10:23 GMT -8
I don't disagree with you regarding the fact that a number of the wins could have gone either way as well. All I was saying was that this team COULD be 8-4 or 9-3 in conference play if things had gone their way. I agree that they probably are about where they deserve to be, however I still think there are more games that we will look back on this year and wonder how we didn't come out on top rather than wondering how we managed to win. The Utah game I do attribute much of the last 4 or 5 minutes to the way the game was officiated. Could we have won in spite of that still? Absolutely, but it sure makes it a lot more difficult to do that when the game gets turned on its head the way it did. There are also games this year where this team has completely dominated the opposition (Oregon, Colorado, WSU) and they have also led in almost all of the games they have lost and have not lost by more than 9 all year. This team is or should be better than their record and I think we can both at the very least agree that it has been frustrating to witness. My reply was honestly asking... do you really see this as a 8-4 or better type team? Coaching decisions (especially the shortening the bench), teaching/overall improvement of players, depth/trusting the guys recruited, overall play... I see the logic in the "more wins", but not the ability to take advantage of those opportunities. WT is not a terrible coach. But for a guy with HCing experience I see a lot of the same deficiencies I saw in CR who was basically learning how to be a HC on the fly. A grad transfer or JC pg is a MUST for next year or we'll see the same inconsistent play of guys out of position. Next year is make or break for WT. With a good or better pg he'll never have this much talent assembled for the foreseeable future. At least WT plays guys he thinks has hot hands. Not the CR, you just scored six points and had a steal, you must be tired, I’ll pull you substitution program.
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