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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 29, 2018 22:38:32 GMT -8
Argh... just what I feared... as a reader of the board and for Luke. Some just can't let it pass and harp on a conversation that was completely... overly... hashed out last spring.
No one in here asked for any "pass". No one defended the "actions". Some may have a personal "cob" up their arse on this topic... great... good for you and your ideals. But, this is more than a dead horse. It's now become a political "look at me" crap fest.
On this topic lets live in the now and get back to baseball.
On that note... #2 is great pub, but not sure this team is up to that ranking. I get 56-6 counts for something, but this isn't that team. Personally would love a top 10-15 rank and climb... rather than #2 and drop. Which I think this team will do as the newbies develop. The experienced talented core is there, but some key holes and new responsibilities on the mound will take time to jell.
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LH
Jan 30, 2018 9:08:32 GMT -8
Post by kersting13 on Jan 30, 2018 9:08:32 GMT -8
Argh... just what I feared... as a reader of the board and for Luke. Some just can't let it pass and harp on a conversation that was completely... overly... hashed out last spring. No one in here asked for any "pass". No one defended the "actions". Some may have a personal "cob" up their arse on this topic... great... good for you and your ideals. But, this is more than a dead horse. It's now become a political "look at me" crap fest. On this topic lets live in the now and get back to baseball. On that note... #2 is great pub, but not sure this team is up to that ranking. I get 56-6 counts for something, but this isn't that team. Personally would love a top 10-15 rank and climb... rather than #2 and drop. Which I think this team will do as the newbies develop. The experienced talented core is there, but some key holes and new responsibilities on the mound will take time to jell. The #2 ranking may not be where you want to start from a coaching/motivation perspective, but it is well deserved. After churning out the best record in NCAA baseball in over 30 years, finishing the season in 3rd place, and returning 7 of the top 9 batters (by ABs) and 6 of the top 8 pitchers (by IP), and I don't see how there's a lot of logic to rank them much lower. Replicating a 56-6 record will be near impossible, but the Beavers certainly have to be looked at as one of the favorites to make it back to Omaha.
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Post by TheGlove on Jan 30, 2018 9:11:37 GMT -8
So much revisionist history. Besides all that, by law he’s not a sex offender. By the laws of both the sovereign States of Oregon and Washington, Luke Heimlich was a "sex offender" and a "registered sex offender" at least up until August of last year. One should remember that Luke had to put the counties that he traveled through on notice that he was a registered sex offender before he was allowed to travel with the team. I personally do not know, if Luke is still a "sex offender." Glove, brother, what exactly am I revising? The term "revisionist history" usually involves taking a hero and making him or her a villain or vice versa. Am I doing that here? Is Luke Heimlich a hero? Or did I take a villain, like a Benton County Sheriff sergeant and make him a hero? Is the Benton County Sheriff sergeant a villain? Or did I take the now deceased Brooke Wilberger and make her a hero? Was Brooke a villain? I would like to believe that I am calling a spade a spade here. I would like to believe that we can all agree that a man that allegedly molested a four-year-old family member over a two-year period is without question a villain. I would like to believe that we can all agree that yokels that choose to celebrate a one-time sex offender, because he is a one-time sex offender, should receive condemnation and not praise. I would like to believe that. And this is not to say that an individual, who once did villainous things, cannot become a hero. However, I have not heard how that has occurred here. I want Heimlich to go on to do great things that help people. I want him to make all of this worth it. But I fail to see how giving him a pass, because it says "Oregon State" on his jersey accomplishes anything other than make that jersey mean that much less in my eyes and the eyes of everyone that Oregon State plays. Earn this, Luke! Make all of this right! Earn it! Go Beavs! I'm not calling anyone a villain or a hero. Those are your words. Let's be clear. Why are you are equating rape, kidnapping and murder to a minor molesting a child? I don't buy this false equivalency and neither does this society. To equate two very different situations is to show a complete lack of understanding, of context, and smacks of grandstanding. Why do equate LH being interviewed and then outed by the Oregonian to CGA texting to Clownzano? That is some major Twilight Zone s%#t right there. Who is writing the rules here? Please let me and other Beaver fans know when the great moral authority can allow us to support LH with applause. Please let us know when it's OK to support him. If he plays and strikes out the side, are we to sit silently? Golf clap? Nod appreciatively, but not smile? LH did something abhorrently wrong as a minor. In the eyes of the law, our societal judgement, LH has paid for his transgressions. LH was erroneously "outed" by a mistake made by the authorities. So he's had to pay for them. And I doubt this will ever leave his side, he'll be paying for what he did for the rest of his life. So be it. But now we have another victim. And the original victim has to have all this brought to the forefront again. More publicity they have to deal with when what they really want is to be able to deal with the past and try to move forward without it constantly being brought up again. And you, apparently love to victim blame. Why didn't LH choose better lawyer or another school? Why didn't he refuse to talk to the Oregonian? Absolute ridiculousness.
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Post by thewizard on Jan 30, 2018 10:13:38 GMT -8
Maybe this should be moved to the "Off Topic" board since it is strayed from the first couple of responses of the Diamond Dinner video. Just my 2 cents... Go Beavs!
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Post by beavermd on Jan 30, 2018 10:46:21 GMT -8
It might after. If it is not that bad, come out and say that. If someone knows something that makes this better, let's hear it. We all know people. No one that I know knows anything, though. The problem is that everyone, even the people at the school and on the team, are still in lock-down mode, which implies that, as bad as it is, it is probably worse than that. Yokels applauding Heimlich at a dinner for him "overcoming" his own multiple-fold stupid actions........man. I always assumed that Oregon State fans were better than that, but I may have deluded myself. I want us to be better than that. Much better. I will keep saying it. We, as fans, need to keep the game in perspective. If people are excoriating Heimlich in the press, that is a damned small price to pay, if you ask me for what he did. Heimlich did wrong. He chose to do things that no one ever should do, that no one at any age should think is right. He made stupid decisions thereafter. He should not be rewarded for that. We should not celebrate him for it. If he has a right to play, let's watch him play. If he does well, let's congratulate him. But to give him a standing O for making bad decisions and then quitting on the team, when his playing could have been the difference? Man, that just does not sit right with me. If you are going to come back and play in 2018, you should have been playing in Omaha. Another bad decision. Clap, clap, clap. Ask yourself a couple of questions. Why was Luke’s punishment so light? Why wouldn’t the prosecution fight for a harsher punishment? Who do juries normally side with in these types of cases? Do innocent people ever get accused of doing things they dont do? There’s a lot to this case that will never be reported on because in the end Luke and his family chose the course of action they thought would be the best for the long term health of everyone involved. Unfortunately, sometimes trying to make things go away instead of fighting for justice can come back to bite you. That’s all I will say on the matter.
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LH
Jan 30, 2018 12:37:52 GMT -8
Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jan 30, 2018 12:37:52 GMT -8
By the laws of both the sovereign States of Oregon and Washington, Luke Heimlich was a "sex offender" and a "registered sex offender" at least up until August of last year. One should remember that Luke had to put the counties that he traveled through on notice that he was a registered sex offender before he was allowed to travel with the team. I personally do not know, if Luke is still a "sex offender." Glove, brother, what exactly am I revising? The term "revisionist history" usually involves taking a hero and making him or her a villain or vice versa. Am I doing that here? Is Luke Heimlich a hero? Or did I take a villain, like a Benton County Sheriff sergeant and make him a hero? Is the Benton County Sheriff sergeant a villain? Or did I take the now deceased Brooke Wilberger and make her a hero? Was Brooke a villain? I would like to believe that I am calling a spade a spade here. I would like to believe that we can all agree that a man that allegedly molested a four-year-old family member over a two-year period is without question a villain. I would like to believe that we can all agree that yokels that choose to celebrate a one-time sex offender, because he is a one-time sex offender, should receive condemnation and not praise. I would like to believe that. And this is not to say that an individual, who once did villainous things, cannot become a hero. However, I have not heard how that has occurred here. I want Heimlich to go on to do great things that help people. I want him to make all of this worth it. But I fail to see how giving him a pass, because it says "Oregon State" on his jersey accomplishes anything other than make that jersey mean that much less in my eyes and the eyes of everyone that Oregon State plays. Earn this, Luke! Make all of this right! Earn it! Go Beavs! I'm not calling anyone a villain or a hero. Those are your words. Let's be clear. Why are you are equating rape, kidnapping and murder to a minor molesting a child? I don't buy this false equivalency and neither does this society. To equate two very different situations is to show a complete lack of understanding, of context, and smacks of grandstanding. Why do equate LH being interviewed and then outed by the Oregonian to CGA texting to Clownzano? That is some major Twilight Zone s%#t right there. Who is writing the rules here? Please let me and other Beaver fans know when the great moral authority can allow us to support LH with applause. Please let us know when it's OK to support him. If he plays and strikes out the side, are we to sit silently? Golf clap? Nod appreciatively, but not smile? LH did something abhorrently wrong as a minor. In the eyes of the law, our societal judgement, LH has paid for his transgressions. LH was erroneously "outed" by a mistake made by the authorities. So he's had to pay for them. And I doubt this will ever leave his side, he'll be paying for what he did for the rest of his life. So be it. But now we have another victim. And the original victim has to have all this brought to the forefront again. More publicity they have to deal with when what they really want is to be able to deal with the past and try to move forward without it constantly being brought up again. And you, apparently love to victim blame. Why didn't LH choose better lawyer or another school? Why didn't he refuse to talk to the Oregonian? Absolute ridiculousness. The term "revisionist history" connotes that I am literally taking a hero and turning him/her into a villain or vice versa. That is what you said. Judging from your response, you probably meant to use a different term, unless you are using it in a context that I am unfamiliar with? I love your response. I really do. You chose to denigrate actions taken by a Benton County Sheriff's sergeant for being too vigilant. Why won't anyone consider the feelings of the poor registered sex offenders? I am personally not going to second guess a Benton County Sheriff's sergeant for targeting registered sex offenders and trying to make sure that they comply with Oregon law. And I would respectfully say that you should consider where you are, if you are currently arguing that the law treats registered sex offenders too harshly and that police officers should be more lax, when it comes to registered sex offenders at a college campus. I did not equate Joel Courtney killing Brooke Wilberger with Luke Heimlich sexually assaulting a six-year-old. It is telling, though, that you attempt to equate them. It is also telling that Joel Courtney sexually assaulted his cousin and attempted to sexually assault his sister (she stopped him by hitting him with a clock), when he was a minor, and was a previously convicted sex offender at the time Brooke Wilberger was kidnapped, raped, murdered, and buried in a shallow grave. Perhaps a more vigilant Sheriff's sergeant could have averted Brooke's kidnapping, rape, and murder? We will never know. But I will be damned, if I do not bring up Brooke, whenever someone starts spouting nonsense about the Benton County Sheriff being too vigilant in protecting the great people of Benton County from registered sexual offenders. That is their job! To protect us all from the worst of us. If I had kids or grandkids at Oregon State (or think that I might some day), I want that Benton County Sheriff rounding up all the registered sex offenders and making their lives a living hell pretty much 24-7. Move out! Leave Benton County. Never return! This is no place for you! Appreciate that your actions will be under a microscope every second of every day. It is "Twilight Zone s%#t" to equate talking with the press to texting with the press? I guess I made a huge Twilight Zonesque leap with that one. I should have realized that giving interviews to the press and texting the press were light years apart. This all started because someone said that the crowd cheered harder for Heimlich than the other players. That is the world turned upside down, right there, brother. Heimlich is an Oregon State Beaver. Cheer him on, because he is a Beaver. But why single him out for additional praise? What has he done that is deserving of that? He put himself in a hole, a big hole, the Hell's Canyon of holes. Then, he took additional actions that made the hole bigger. Then, when his worst secrets were revealed, he quit on the team, when the team needed him most. And now, everyone is cheering that? Why in holy hell? Please explain it so that I can make sense of it! I condemn Luke Heimlich's actions. Pretty much all of them, since he was a 13-year-old. Condemn. Beneath what the average reasonable person should find excusable. Heimlich paid no penalty for his actions, until the story broke. His secret bad acts were then public bad acts. (Is that a punishment? I don't believe so. Others might disagree.) Then, he was not drafted. Once again, 30 Major League baseball organizations determined what Heimlich did made him unfit to wear that organization's colors or even the colors of a minor league club associated with that organization. Condemn. Beneath what the average reasonable person finds excusable. Heimlich's only punishment is another year at Oregon State. Damn! Talk about being punished! Now, he's coming back, and Oregon State fans are cheering Heimlich for being Heimlich? Why the hell for? What has he done that is deserving of that? If it can be explained, explain it. Otherwise, I think less of people for singling out Heimlich for additional praise. Clap clap clap. The last two paragraphs. Man. The real victim here is and always has been a six-year-old, who had the poor fortune of being related to an all-around scumbag as a youth, Luke Heimlich. So far as I can tell, the victim has suffered nothing by having this be public, as no one knows who she is. However, this being public is the only way that relatives of that six-year-old feel like Heimlich will be punished. I respect that. I respect relatives of victims knowing far better than me or you or the States of Washington and Oregon, if an individual has been punished enough. I respect relatives of victims knowing if this will harm the victim. I respect that. I do not call it into question. You do. Why? The only reason that I can figure is that you feel like it has harmed something you care about, namely the Oregon State Beavers. Strip everything else away, I feel like you and the yokels that cheered on Heimlich at the dinner are putting Oregon State above what happened to a six-year-old. I feel like you and the yokels that cheered on Heimlich at the dinner are putting Oregon State above what is right. Once again, respectfully, I would request that you consider where you are with regards to your position on this. You are saying that you know better than a six-year-old's mom. Respectfully, I profoundly disagree that you are in a better decision to determine what is best for that six-year-old than that six-year-old's mom. By any qualitative analysis of what has occurred here, you are in the wrong here, brother. Respectfully, you are wrong. You asked me who is "writing the rules." You indicated that there was a great moral authority at play. What is the great moral authority that says that you are in the right here? What is it? I think of God. I think of Yahweh/Jehovah. I think of karma. I think of balance. I think of what the great number of Americans think about this. What side do they fall on? I think of little girls and women looking at this. What do they think of the yokels cheering on Heimlich? I think of their fathers. What do they think? Where is the morality in cheering on a man, who as a minor sexually assaulted a child nine years his junior? Who compounded that mistake with other mistakes? Who, when his secret transgressions were outed, turned tail and ran, a disgraced coward? Where is the morality there? Where is the morality in cheering on Luke Heimlich? Clap clap clap. I will continue to say I hate what Luke Heimlich did. Pretty much everything that he did. I am waiting to hear how I can cheer him on. A part of me wants to. But a bigger part of me knows that that is wrong. So, how do I square that?
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LH
Jan 30, 2018 13:04:43 GMT -8
Post by TheGlove on Jan 30, 2018 13:04:43 GMT -8
I'm not calling anyone a villain or a hero. Those are your words. Let's be clear. Why are you are equating rape, kidnapping and murder to a minor molesting a child? I don't buy this false equivalency and neither does this society. To equate two very different situations is to show a complete lack of understanding, of context, and smacks of grandstanding. Why do equate LH being interviewed and then outed by the Oregonian to CGA texting to Clownzano? That is some major Twilight Zone s%#t right there. Who is writing the rules here? Please let me and other Beaver fans know when the great moral authority can allow us to support LH with applause. Please let us know when it's OK to support him. If he plays and strikes out the side, are we to sit silently? Golf clap? Nod appreciatively, but not smile? LH did something abhorrently wrong as a minor. In the eyes of the law, our societal judgement, LH has paid for his transgressions. LH was erroneously "outed" by a mistake made by the authorities. So he's had to pay for them. And I doubt this will ever leave his side, he'll be paying for what he did for the rest of his life. So be it. But now we have another victim. And the original victim has to have all this brought to the forefront again. More publicity they have to deal with when what they really want is to be able to deal with the past and try to move forward without it constantly being brought up again. And you, apparently love to victim blame. Why didn't LH choose better lawyer or another school? Why didn't he refuse to talk to the Oregonian? Absolute ridiculousness. The term "revisionist history" connotes that I am literally taking a hero and turning him/her into a villain or vice versa. That is what you said. Judging from your response, you probably meant to use a different term, unless you are using it in a context that I am unfamiliar with? I love your response. I really do. You chose to denigrate actions taken by a Benton County Sheriff's sergeant for being too vigilant. Why won't anyone consider the feelings of the poor registered sex offenders? I am personally not going to second guess a Benton County Sheriff's sergeant for targeting registered sex offenders and trying to make sure that they comply with Oregon law. And I would respectfully say that you should consider where you are, if you are currently arguing that the law treats registered sex offenders too harshly and that police officers should be more lax, when it comes to registered sex offenders at a college campus. I did not equate Joel Courtney killing Brooke Wilberger with Luke Heimlich sexually assaulting a six-year-old. It is telling, though, that you attempt to equate them. It is also telling that Joel Courtney attempted to sexually assault both his cousin and his sister, when he was a minor, and was a previously convicted sex offender at the time Brooke Wilberger was kidnapped, raped, murdered, and buried in a shallow grave. Perhaps a more vigilant Sheriff's sergeant could have averted Brooke's kidnapping, rape, and murder? We will never know. But I will be damned, if I do not bring up Brooke, whenever someone starts spouting nonsense about the Benton County Sheriff being too vigilant in protecting the great people of Benton County from registered sexual offenders. That is their job! To protect us all from the worst of us. If I had kids or grandkids at Oregon State (or think that I might some day), I want that Benton County Sheriff rounding up all the registered sex offenders and making their lives a living hell pretty much 24-7. Move out! Leave Benton County. Never return! This is no place for you! Appreciate that your actions will be under a microscope every second of every day. It is "Twilight Zone s%#t" to equate talking with the press to texting with the press? I guess I made a huge Twilight Zonesque leap with that one. I should have realized that giving interviews to the press and texting the press were light years apart. This all started because someone said that the crowd cheered harder for Heimlich than the other players. That is the world turned upside down, right there, brother. Heimlich is an Oregon State Beaver. Cheer him on, because he is a Beaver. But why single him out for additional praise? What has he done that is deserving of that? He put himself in a hole, a big hole, the Hell's Canyon of holes. Then, he took additional actions that made the hole bigger. Then, when his worst secrets were revealed, he quit on the team, when the team needed him most. And now, everyone is cheering that? Why in holy hell? Please explain it so that I can make sense of it! I condemn Luke Heimlich's actions. Pretty much all of them, since he was a 13-year-old. Condemn. Beneath what the average reasonable person should find excusable. Heimlich paid no penalty for his actions, until the story broke. His secret bad acts were then public bad acts. (Is that a punishment? I don't believe so. Others might disagree.) Then, he was not drafted. Once again, 30 Major League baseball organizations determined what Heimlich did made him unfit to wear that organization's colors or even the colors of a minor league club associated with that organization. Condemn. Beneath what the average reasonable person finds excusable. Heimlich's only punishment is another year at Oregon State. Damn! Talk about being punished! Now, he's coming back, and Oregon State fans are cheering Heimlich for being Heimlich? Why the hell for? What has he done that is deserving of that? If it can be explained, explain it. Otherwise, I think less of people for singling out Heimlich for additional praise. Clap clap clap. The last two paragraphs. Man. The real victim here is and always has been a six-year-old, who had the poor fortune of being related to an all-around scumbag as a youth, Luke Heimlich. So far as I can tell, the victim has suffered nothing by having this be public, as no one knows who she is. However, this being public is the only way that relatives of that six-year-old feel like Heimlich will be punished. I respect that. I respect relatives of victims knowing far better than me or you or the States of Washington and Oregon, if an individual has been punished enough. I respect relatives of victims knowing if this will harm the victim. I respect that. I do not call it into question. You do. Why? The only reason that I can figure is that you feel like it has harmed something you care about, namely the Oregon State Beavers. Strip everything else away, I feel like you and the yokels that cheered on Heimlich at the dinner are putting Oregon State above what happened to a six-year-old. I feel like you and the yokels that cheered on Heimlich at the dinner are putting Oregon State above what is right. Once again, respectfully, I would request that you consider where you are with regards to your position on this. You are saying that you know better than a six-year-old's mom. Respectfully, I profoundly disagree that you are in a better decision to determine what is best for that six-year-old than that six-year-old's mom. By any qualitative analysis of what has occurred here, you are in the wrong here, brother. Respectfully, you are wrong. You asked me who is "writing the rules." You indicated that there was a great moral authority at play. What is the great moral authority that says that you are in the right here? What is it? I think of God. I think of Yahweh/Jehovah. I think of karma. I think of balance. I think of what the great number of Americans think about this. What side do they fall on? I think of little girls and women looking at this. What do they think of the yokels cheering on Heimlich? I think of their fathers. What do they think? Where is the morality in cheering on a man, who as a minor sexually assaulted a child nine years his junior? Who compounded that mistake with other mistakes? Who, when his secret transgressions were outed, turned tail and ran, a disgraced coward? Where is the morality there? Where is the morality in cheering on Luke Heimlich? Clap clap clap. I will continue to say I hate what Luke Heimlich did. Pretty much everything that he did. I am waiting to hear how I can cheer him on. A part of me wants to. But a bigger part of me knows that that is wrong. So, how do I square that? There. You get the last word and now I'm shutting this thread down because it's not going anywhere interesting or productive.
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