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Post by skyrider on Jan 16, 2018 8:35:26 GMT -8
My viewpoint is that the "achille's(sp?) heel" for this Beaver team is their inability to break down pressing pressure defense from the most athletic teams they play (UCLA is the best current example). The resulting turnovers and lack of quality offense lead to losses.
I believe the player on the team who has shown the most quickness, most foot speed, best dribbling and by far the best intermediate range jump shot and ability to finish at the basket is Taylor Kalmer.
Coach Rueck does not play her that often nor use her for the purpose of defeating the pressure defenses.
Obviously he is a way way better coach and judge of talent than I so clearly I am missing something about her game, abilities,etc.
It would appear to me that unless OSU does something significant to address the problem of pressure defenses our chances of going very far in this year's NCAA tournament are quite slim.
I would appreciate feedback, comments, observations, etc.
Thank you! Go Beavers!
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 16, 2018 10:07:04 GMT -8
by far the best intermediate range jump shot and ability to finish at the basket is Taylor Kalmer. She is shooting 39% from the field, the lowest percentage on the team. Not sure I agree with you on that one.
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 16, 2018 10:16:21 GMT -8
Taylor is averaging the 5th most minutes per game on the team:
MINUTES G No. Min/G ----------------------------------- McWilliams, Katie... 17 521 30.6 Gulich, Marie....... 17 456 26.8 Pivec, Mikayla...... 17 453 26.6 Tudor, Kat.......... 17 437 25.7 Kalmer, Taylor...... 17 367 21.6
Though I suspect that Taya is catching up on that front. Taylor has not been shooting great of late, but I note how active she has been on D (perhaps because SR is keeping the guards fresh?), and her dribbling quickness really leaps out among the Beavers. She continues to definitely grow and contribute.
Go Beavers!
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Post by beaveragain on Jan 16, 2018 16:34:54 GMT -8
PG is all about experience, and Mik has a total of 16 games worth. If you look at Mik's stats and Canada's in her freshman year (unfair to Mik, but for comparison) and you will see that Mik has done better substantially in everything except steals and free throw %. And OSU's defense doesn't go for steals so that's a goofy stat to compare. SR has noticed the problem and has gotten her some help. We will have to see how it works vs UCLA etc.
And about this "athlete" stuff. Mik as a freshman was a starter in a nationally ranked basketball team and set records on the track team. Who do you think is a better female athlete in the pac-12??
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 16, 2018 17:16:25 GMT -8
PG is all about experience, and Mik has a total of 16 games worth. If you look at Mik's stats and Canada's in her freshman year (unfair to Mik, but for comparison) and you will see that Mik has done better substantially in everything except steals and free throw %. And OSU's defense doesn't go for steals so that's a goofy stat to compare. SR has noticed the problem and has gotten her some help. We will have to see how it works vs UCLA etc. And about this "athlete" stuff. Mik as a freshman was a starter in a nationally ranked basketball team and set records on the track team. Who do you think is a better female athlete in the pac-12?? Wow... ok, you love Mik. But, really? Starting on a nationally ranked hoops team and throwing the javelin for an also ran track program makes her the best female athlete in the Pac12? Oh my. You obviously have a very different definition of "best athlete", but have also not watched many female Pac12 athletes. Given time there are easily over 100 just track athletes that are "better athletes". Starting and stats don't tell the story of athleticism... period.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 16, 2018 18:56:46 GMT -8
She runs 2:14 in the 800, 4:57 in the 1500 and 18:40 in the 5K, throws the javelin 147 feet, and starts on an excellent basketball team.
The Pac-12 heptathlon champ last year - the best athlete in the Pac-12 - ran slower, and did not throw the javelin as far. I don't think she played basketball either.
She is an outstanding athlete. She would be an outstanding heptathlete had she gone in that direction.
PS: OSU might be an "also-ran" in track, but its javelin throwers are top-notch. Four finished in the top 18 at the Pac-12 meet last year; the best thrower, Destiny Dawson, was redshirting and the best regular-season thrower, Kindel Bailey, a 150+ thrower, was hurt and could not compete, otherwise 1/3 of the top javelin throwers in the Pac-12 would have been Beavers. Dawson could very well win the Pac-12 this year, she's thrown 160+ feet.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jan 16, 2018 19:28:03 GMT -8
She runs 2:14 in the 800, 4:57 in the 1500 and 18:40 in the 5K, throws the javelin 147 feet, and starts on an excellent basketball team. The Pac-12 heptathlon champ last year - the best athlete in the Pac-12 - ran slower, and did not throw the javelin as far. I don't think she played basketball either. She is an outstanding athlete. She would be an outstanding heptathlete had she gone in that direction. PS: OSU might be an "also-ran" in track, but its javelin throwers are top-notch. Four finished in the top 18 at the Pac-12 meet last year; the best thrower, Destiny Dawson, was redshirting and the best regular-season thrower, Kindel Bailey, a 150+ thrower, was hurt and could not compete, otherwise 1/3 of the top javelin throwers in the Pac-12 would have been Beavers. Dawson could very well win the Pac-12 this year, she's thrown 160+ feet. She "ran"... couldn't now... hasn't trained in track other than jav. If she was trained to be a heptathlete she'd not be playing hoops. Again pull out all the stats you want... your wrong. What a perfect example of your typical apples to peanuts posts. Slower than heptathletes yet Mik doesn't do most of those events... at all! LMAO PS- Pac12 championships... Javelin... one OSU placer... 9th... not her 1500m... 12th place 4:37 800m... 12th place 2:12 5k... 12th place 16:29 She doesn't pole vault, long jump, hurdle, shot put, high jump... so to help disprove your own ridiculous post... Two OSU women placed in the heptathlon... 2nd and 7th... so Mik not even the "Jim Thorpe" on the OSU women's track team! You do continue to amaze...
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Post by beaveragain on Jan 16, 2018 19:46:40 GMT -8
She's never placed in an event she has never competed in. Ok, you are right, she is not a good athlete. I stand corrected.
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jan 16, 2018 19:58:14 GMT -8
The two women in the heptathlon don't play basketball, either. Pivec took 15th place in the javelin at Pac-12s with about four weeks training.
Again, you think you're the smartest guy in the room, but you're not even in the hallway.
She's an outstanding all-around athlete. Sorry you can't acknowledge that.
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Post by skyrider on Jan 16, 2018 20:00:24 GMT -8
Several hours ago I wrote:
My viewpoint is that the "achille's(sp?) heel" for this Beaver team is their inability to break down pressing pressure defense from the most athletic teams they play (UCLA is the best current example). The resulting turnovers and lack of quality offense lead to losses.
I believe the player on the team who has shown the most quickness, most foot speed, best dribbling and by far the best intermediate range jump shot and ability to finish at the basket is Taylor Kalmer.
Coach Rueck does not play her that often nor use her for the purpose of defeating the pressure defenses.
Obviously he is a way way better coach and judge of talent than I so clearly I am missing something about her game, abilities,etc.
It would appear to me that unless OSU does something significant to address the problem of pressure defenses our chances of going very far in this year's NCAA tournament are quite slim.
I would appreciate feedback, comments, observations, etc.
Thank you! Go Beavers!
My thought was not that Mikayla is not as good an athlete as Taylor Kalmer. Pivec is clearly in my mind the best athlete and player on the team.
I would still like further feedback, comments and thoughts on my original statement. The difficulty that the Lady Beavs have with pressing pressure defenses is a significant problem this year.
Thank you!
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Post by ag87 on Jan 16, 2018 20:12:53 GMT -8
She runs 2:14 in the 800, 4:57 in the 1500 and 18:40 in the 5K, throws the javelin 147 feet, and starts on an excellent basketball team. The Pac-12 heptathlon champ last year - the best athlete in the Pac-12 - ran slower, and did not throw the javelin as far. I don't think she played basketball either. She is an outstanding athlete. She would be an outstanding heptathlete had she gone in that direction. PS: OSU might be an "also-ran" in track, but its javelin throwers are top-notch. Four finished in the top 18 at the Pac-12 meet last year; the best thrower, Destiny Dawson, was redshirting and the best regular-season thrower, Kindel Bailey, a 150+ thrower, was hurt and could not compete, otherwise 1/3 of the top javelin throwers in the Pac-12 would have been Beavers. Dawson could very well win the Pac-12 this year, she's thrown 160+ feet. She "ran"... couldn't now... hasn't trained in track other than jav. If she was trained to be a heptathlete she'd not be playing hoops. Again pull out all the stats you want... your wrong. What a perfect example of your typical apples to peanuts posts. Slower than heptathletes yet Mik doesn't do most of those events... at all! LMAO PS- Pac12 championships... Javelin... one OSU placer... 9th... not her 1500m... 12th place 4:37 800m... 12th place 2:12 5k... 12th place 16:29 She doesn't pole vault, long jump, hurdle, shot put, high jump... so to help disprove your own ridiculous post... Two OSU women placed in the heptathlon... 2nd and 7th... so Mik not even the "Jim Thorpe" on the OSU women's track team! You do continue to amaze... There is no pole vault in the hept. Pivac maybe could become an excellent heptathlete. She'd have to develop a lot of foot speed (200, 100HH and LJ) and I'm not sure she has the genetics. If she could, she could develop into a Pac-12 placer. Saying that, I'd be shocked if she wanted to try and would likely have to give up basketball if she felt the calling. Last year's Pac-12 champion probably could have been a high D1 basketball player - about 5-10, explosive, 4-year starter, last two years all-state. In the "it's a small world" category, WSU's other good heptathlete last year, Liz Harper, led her Montana high school to state titles in basketball in 2012 and 2013. Elle Tinkle's team was average in 2012 (senior year). Harper won the Montana 400 title that year with Tinkle in 2nd.
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Post by 411500 on Jan 16, 2018 21:00:30 GMT -8
skyrider says: "I would still like further feedback, comments and thoughts on my original statement. The difficulty that the Lady Beavs have with pressing pressure defenses is a significant problem this year."
I'll dash off a few brief comments with regard to your spot on observation that this year's OSU team has difficulty coping with pressure d.
Not much I say will be new because we talked about this a couple weeks back.....Nevertheless, here are a few ideas from the way I look at things.
Yes, the Beavs are not nearly as quick as many of the elite teams they have faced this year. Or will face in the NCAA's. I think everyone pretty much agrees with this observation. I imagine Coach R agrees with it..I imagine every coach in the PAC agrees with it.
This is not an encouraging state of affaires, but neither is it fatal. No team has it all. No teams have the entire package.
UCLA, for example, does not possess the perimeter shooting skills of OSU, nor do they run as effective half-court offense. Nor do they have as strong a bench as the Beavs.
It's likely that if you were a Bruin Booster you might think "Until we can run our offense better, and shoot the 3 better, we cannot beat teams like Notre Dame, or even Stanford." The point here is essential. All Top 20 teams have numerous strengths and some weaknesses.
This year the Beavs have a pretty serious weakness when it comes to handling a pressing, hyper-quick defense. Agreed. The unknown is how serious is this weakness and will it be their downfall as a team.
I don't know. My guess is that this year's team will not be able to handle, on any consistent basis, really intense pressure D. This is no indictment. It's simply how I evaluate the basketball assets this team possesses.
A parallel in football would be to say that Team A probably cannot stop the Air Raid attack of team B because they have slower defensive backs.
So this is an unfairly brief view, I know...
I love this year's team - but it is not a powerhouse. It does a lot of things well. But no matter how you try to dance around it, this team is not characterized by team quickness or by an attacking, slashing offensive style of play.
Will that keep them from making the Sweet 16? Yes, it will. But if they win Friday, call me on Monday !😊
GO BEAVS !!
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Post by Werebeaver on Jan 16, 2018 21:31:25 GMT -8
She "ran"... couldn't now... hasn't trained in track other than jav. If she was trained to be a heptathlete she'd not be playing hoops. Again pull out all the stats you want... your wrong. What a perfect example of your typical apples to peanuts posts. Slower than heptathletes yet Mik doesn't do most of those events... at all! LMAO PS- Pac12 championships... Javelin... one OSU placer... 9th... not her 1500m... 12th place 4:37 800m... 12th place 2:12 5k... 12th place 16:29 She doesn't pole vault, long jump, hurdle, shot put, high jump... so to help disprove your own ridiculous post... Two OSU women placed in the heptathlon... 2nd and 7th... so Mik not even the "Jim Thorpe" on the OSU women's track team! You do continue to amaze... There is no pole vault in the hept. Pivac maybe could become an excellent heptathlete. She'd have to develop a lot of foot speed (200, 100HH and LJ) and I'm not sure she has the genetics. If she could, she could develop into a Pac-12 placer. Saying that, I'd be shocked if she wanted to try and would likely have to give up basketball if she felt the calling. Last year's Pac-12 champion probably could have been a high D1 basketball player - about 5-10, explosive, 4-year starter, last two years all-state. In the "it's a small world" category, WSU's other good heptathlete last year, Liz Harper, led her Montana high school to state titles in basketball in 2012 and 2013. Elle Tinkle's team was average in 2012 (senior year). Harper won the Montana 400 title that year with Tinkle in 2nd. I always thought that Jamie Weisner could have been a great heptathlete.
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Jan 16, 2018 21:42:23 GMT -8
(Thanks skyrider and 411500 for returning us to the pressing topic at hand :-)
This team is not quick, that will be next year's team with Destiny and Jazz. While Jazz will be a freshman, she has faced some world-class talent representing Australia, which gives me hope.
It will be interesting to see how we play UCLA/USC the next time around (or a couple of the other teams with ultra quick guards)... Will we have Taylor Kalmer jet up the court? I think she was reminding folks of her speed during the UA game. Will we use the pass to defeat it (we seem to know how to hit Marie when she is streaking down the floor) Or will we bring our bigs into the back court and use height to counter (we have had Marie or Jo in the backcourt when it looks like we will see the press, thus far they have mostly run loose interference as the guards work up the court). I am not sure I have seen jitterbug quick on the 'uck team (in the few minutes I have watched them), so we might not have to fear the press this weekend.
I'll save my other gripe for another day, which is how we love (with good results) the inbound play after a set of elaborate shifts and screens, but we don't seem to have worked in a "pressure release valve" option, potentially into the back court, at the 4 count. Probably because everyone is busy setting screens down low.
On the plus side, "forward by committee" is coming along, Jo seems to be playing a tad quicker, and next year's class was ranked #14 in the country without counting Destiny.
This year's team has done pretty well using the assets it has, but I don't think we have seen a game yet where the team has overachieved. Most of the games have had their "yeah, but..." aspect. Will we be clicking on all cylinders on Friday? Would be a fine time for it.
Sweet 16? Would have to get hot at the right time and face the "right" teams in the early rounds. As was pointed out in an earlier thread, not a given (yet) that the tournament is made (high RPI, lots of dangerous teams). Lot of season left. But I still like watching them and I am learning how to not let the (few and far between) losses bug me too long :-).
Go Beavers!
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Post by skyrider on Jan 17, 2018 3:25:21 GMT -8
Thank you to both "411500" and to "2ndGenBeaver" for your outstanding insightful comments.
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