2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 22, 2017 10:34:29 GMT -8
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Post by bennyskid on Dec 22, 2017 11:45:16 GMT -8
"The charge stems from strength and conditioning staff members participating in on-court drills and assisting in voluntary workouts outside the presence of the coaching staff."
Altman recruited a player who he knew was being investigated for rape, and then lied about it. Graves merely hasn't been great about making sure his players don't get help from school staff when practicing on their own. Graves has a long way to fall to get to Altman's level.
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Dec 22, 2017 11:49:08 GMT -8
I don't buy the whole "they didn't know better" excuse. It is one of the head coaches job to make sure their staff know the rules. The number of coaches allowed has not changed recently.
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Post by bennyskid on Dec 22, 2017 15:50:25 GMT -8
Who's using that excuse? The UO is simply saying that since they self-reported the problems, they should get a lighter ruling than Level 2. That's the NCAA's standard deal - the NCAA usually wants to encourage schools to self-report instead of hiding from investigators. Frankly, for the NCAA to call these level 2 infractions is surprising, and I don't think it will stick.
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Dec 22, 2017 18:51:24 GMT -8
Obviously the individuals that did the infraction are saying that they didn't know better. Graves and Altman say they didn't know it was happening. Exactly what you'd expect their reactions to be. No one is going to say, I knew better but I did it anyway. And there is less chance that the coaches are going to say they knew about it prior to reporting it.
I would assume that it is the head coaches responsibility to inform their staff of the rules.
It just seems that the ncaa is always investigating the *ucks for something.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 22, 2017 19:13:58 GMT -8
Obviously the individuals that did the infraction are saying that they didn't know better. Graves and Altman say they didn't know it was happening. Exactly what you'd expect their reactions to be. No one is going to say, I knew better but I did it anyway. And there is less chance that the coaches are going to say they knew about it prior to reporting it. I would assume that it is the head coaches responsibility to inform their staff of the rules. It just seems that the ncaa is always investigating the *ucks for something. The problem with any of these excuses... they have an entire set of staffers responsible for knowing and informing coaches... the compliance dept will eventually be blamed. Maybe one will come forward and blow a bigger "whistle"! |
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Post by bennyskid on Dec 23, 2017 6:56:39 GMT -8
You guys are reading a lot more into this that there is, which just means that in a few months when the final ruling is made and the 'ucks get a minor sanction, you are going to all go off like it's the greatest miscarriage of justice since Shakespeare in Love won Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan. When that happens, it won't be the UO or the NCAA's fault - it's on you for taking your fantasies seriously.
And this bothers me: Altman deliberately recruited and covered up for rapists, and then lied about it, all in the pursuit of winning. Graves merely assumed that the department staff in charge of compliance actually did their jobs and educated the conditioning staff - which does NOT report to Graves, but to the AD - in the rules. These are not the same thing, and putting Graves on the same level as Altman is giving Altman a break he does not deserve.
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billsaab
Freshman
Retired. Live in SW Washington on 73/4 Acres.
Posts: 589
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Post by billsaab on Dec 23, 2017 7:11:43 GMT -8
I tend to agree with your comment. The situations are different. My Problem is they always push the envelope. It's a win at all costs mentality. The NCAA is a mess.Club Basketball and recruiting and Shoe Companies are running amuck.
I wish we could do a better job of getting our message out. I noticed no mention of the Womans basketball game UC Davis otr the Men's game. It is so weird that we don't feed stuff to the papers. Maybe hey are off for the Holidays. I don't like Graves or Altman but what they have done so far is different.
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Post by alwaysorange on Dec 23, 2017 7:12:01 GMT -8
None of this surprises me. Altman has never taken responsibility for anything. it's either the assistant's fault or the strength coach fault or the compliance people's fault or.... For a guy making millions he sure doesn't seem t know what goes on in his program. I also believe that the recent article about Nike and the basketball program involves some shady dealings that I hope the NCAA is looking at.
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Dec 23, 2017 12:29:49 GMT -8
bennyskid makes a good point - Altman is a scumbag sell out of the highest order......I am wondering why the #metoo movement has not caught up to him yet on that campus, quite honestly. Graves is not quite even in the same zipcode of shady ethics (yet). I am left to wonder if Altman just hid his dealings better at Creighton, or if he actually succumbed to the pressure of winning when he took the job at uo and sold out, or if he was "inspired" by others in the athletics department..... As long as we at OSU can can steer clear of what is happening to collegiate athletics in this country due to the $$$, ethically challenged people, win-at-all cost mentality, shoe companies, AAU circuits, etc. etc., though as I start to list out all the pressure, I wonder. Sigh. Go Beavers!
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 23, 2017 12:47:09 GMT -8
You guys are reading a lot more into this that there is, which just means that in a few months when the final ruling is made and the 'ucks get a minor sanction, you are going to all go off like it's the greatest miscarriage of justice since Shakespeare in Love won Best Picture over Saving Private Ryan. When that happens, it won't be the UO or the NCAA's fault - it's on you for taking your fantasies seriously. And this bothers me: Altman deliberately recruited and covered up for rapists, and then lied about it, all in the pursuit of winning. Graves merely assumed that the department staff in charge of compliance actually did their jobs and educated the conditioning staff - which does NOT report to Graves, but to the AD - in the rules. These are not the same thing, and putting Graves on the same level as Altman is giving Altman a break he does not deserve. I agree that they are not on the same "scum bag" level. But, you think that the hoops S$C staff doesn't report to Graves??? LOL... You think Graves doesn't know which of his athletes are getting workouts with staff? LOL A HC is trained by compliance (and Graves is a vet coach and knows the rules)... and one of the key aspects of said training is that the HC is responsible for EVERYTHING regarding the athletes when it comes to university related activities. It is their job to know. If not, the pleading of "I was unaware... they were not under my purview..." is not acceptable under NCAA rules infractions. In fact, one of the "bullet points" for the lack of institutional control charge is just that... staff claiming innocence based on not knowing the rules and the attempt to pass the buck onto an individual or another department. But, Graves is no where near the scum bag Altman is. Graves is not even in the scum bag category with regard to ethics. |
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