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Post by obf on Dec 1, 2017 10:23:18 GMT -8
Huh... Pat Hills coaching career took quite the southward turn huh... HC at Fresno state for 15 years -> Falcons OL coach -> Nothing...
Is he just retired now? I guess he is 65, but seems like football coaches try to coach beyond that...
Agreed about getting back to ZBS... Yup it's harder to coach, but WAY more flexible, and easier to fit players to
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 1, 2017 10:27:58 GMT -8
Yeah, I understand the feeling. OSU had some bad olines, continues to have bad olines, and will probably in the future have very few competent Olinemen. Coach 9er should plan accordingly. You can say that, but the multiple former beav OLineman starting in the NFL would disagree.... QA had bad Olines... or maybe I should say bad OLine play, because I still believe there is some good talent on the team... They were certainly horribly coached and put in terrible schemes... I have said it before, but I bet Coach Cav would have had the 2017 line playing much, much better... In our recent ERA (not including QA!) we haven't had great Oline recruits, but at times we have had stellar OLine play... Even last year we had Harlow, who was a 4th round pick and is working on trying to break into the Falcons OLine rotation... The problem is, with an OL you're typically only as good as your weakest link. This has always been the overall problem with Oregon State. It's not that we haven't been successful in bringing in the high-line NFL caliber talent, we've always had a few. It's depth and consistency of talent across the board that the Beavs struggle with. That results in rebuilding years. They key is to rebuild, not tear it down every year and change the offense
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Post by atownbeaver on Dec 1, 2017 10:50:11 GMT -8
You can say that, but the multiple former beav OLineman starting in the NFL would disagree.... QA had bad Olines... or maybe I should say bad OLine play, because I still believe there is some good talent on the team... They were certainly horribly coached and put in terrible schemes... I have said it before, but I bet Coach Cav would have had the 2017 line playing much, much better... In our recent ERA (not including QA!) we haven't had great Oline recruits, but at times we have had stellar OLine play... Even last year we had Harlow, who was a 4th round pick and is working on trying to break into the Falcons OLine rotation... The problem is, with an OL you're typically only as good as your weakest link. This has always been the overall problem with Oregon State. It's not that we haven't been successful in bringing in the high-line NFL caliber talent, we've always had a few. It's depth and consistency of talent across the board that the Beavs struggle with. That results in rebuilding years. They key is to rebuild, not tear it down every year and change the offenseYou'd think that would go without saying. you'd think...
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 1, 2017 11:04:20 GMT -8
The problem is, with an OL you're typically only as good as your weakest link. This has always been the overall problem with Oregon State. It's not that we haven't been successful in bringing in the high-line NFL caliber talent, we've always had a few. It's depth and consistency of talent across the board that the Beavs struggle with. That results in rebuilding years. They key is to rebuild, not tear it down every year and change the offenseYou'd think that would go without saying. you'd think... yeah that was kind of one of those "you don't pull on Superman's cape, and you don't spit into the wind" type of statements lol
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 1, 2017 13:17:01 GMT -8
Yeah, I understand the feeling. OSU had some bad olines, continues to have bad olines, and will probably in the future have very few competent Olinemen. Coach 9er should plan accordingly. OSU has also had some good olines too though. So it doesn't seem like it's impossible to put together a strong OL, but I do think that it's going to need to be a ZBS in order to be successful at OSU. For all of our griping about Danny being in love with the pass, when Quizz was in the backfield we were running the ball 25-30 times per game and overall they used him fairly brilliantly with the wildcat formations, catching out of the backfield, screen game, and running between the tackles. And that OL wasn't particularly good either. You are actually underselling the play-calling. Oregon State averaged 32 rushing attempts per game in 2010, 34 in 2009, and 37 in 2008, more like 30-40 rushes/game. The Beavers only fell below 30 rushes/game under Langs in 2011 and 2013. Rushes/Game: 2005 38
2006 34 The running clock on kickoffs reduced the number of plays, which makes this number more of an outlier.
2007 42 Fly sweep.
2008 37
2009 34
2010 32
2011 27
2012 34
2013 27
2014 31Run:Pass 2005 47.48%
2006 52.73%
2007 55.26% Fly sweep.2008 52.09% 2009 47.93% 2010 50.59% 2011 38.73% 2012 46.72% 2013 36.26% 2014 44.34%
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 1, 2017 13:24:34 GMT -8
Huh... Pat Hills coaching career took quite the southward turn huh... HC at Fresno state for 15 years -> Falcons OL coach -> Nothing... Is he just retired now? I guess he is 65, but seems like football coaches try to coach beyond that... Agreed about getting back to ZBS... Yup it's harder to coach, but WAY more flexible, and easier to fit players to The last that I heard (2015ish), Hill was a commentator for Fresno State.
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Post by orangeattack on Dec 1, 2017 16:25:02 GMT -8
OSU has also had some good olines too though. So it doesn't seem like it's impossible to put together a strong OL, but I do think that it's going to need to be a ZBS in order to be successful at OSU. For all of our griping about Danny being in love with the pass, when Quizz was in the backfield we were running the ball 25-30 times per game and overall they used him fairly brilliantly with the wildcat formations, catching out of the backfield, screen game, and running between the tackles. And that OL wasn't particularly good either. You are actually underselling the play-calling. Oregon State averaged 32 rushing attempts per game in 2010, 34 in 2009, and 37 in 2008, more like 30-40 rushes/game. The Beavers only fell below 30 rushes/game under Langs in 2011 and 2013. Rushes/Game: 2005 38
2006 34 The running clock on kickoffs reduced the number of plays, which makes this number more of an outlier.
2007 42 Fly sweep.
2008 37
2009 34
2010 32
2011 27
2012 34
2013 27
2014 31Run:Pass 2005 47.48%
2006 52.73%
2007 55.26% Fly sweep.2008 52.09% 2009 47.93% 2010 50.59% 2011 38.73% 2012 46.72% 2013 36.26% 2014 44.34%Wilky, we don't tell you often enough what a treasure you are. This is interesting and informative data... you are the man.
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Post by blackbug on Dec 1, 2017 18:34:28 GMT -8
Yeah, I understand the feeling. OSU had some bad olines, continues to have bad olines, and will probably in the future have very few competent Olinemen. Coach 9er should plan accordingly. You can say that, but the multiple former beav OLineman starting in the NFL would disagree.... QA had bad Olines... or maybe I should say bad OLine play, because I still believe there is some good talent on the team... They were certainly horribly coached and put in terrible schemes... I have said it before, but I bet Coach Cav would have had the 2017 line playing much, much better... In our recent ERA (not including QA!) we haven't had great Oline recruits, but at times we have had stellar OLine play... Even last year we had Harlow, who was a 4th round pick and is working on trying to break into the Falcons OLine rotation... I have always liked Coach Cav. Recently I did a brief statistical analysis to see if my emotions were backed by some of the numbers. The results were almost alarming. Comparing sacks allowed per game and yards per rush Cav was absolutely horrible. I do not have the results to share and due to life circumstances I doubt I will be able to. Cav had some good years with these measurements, but most were downright bad. I know that scheme is part of the explanation, but I came away wondering whether I need to rethink my opinion of Cav as a coach. I seriously wonder whether Riley's biggest mistake was keeping Cav. How mightily Nebraska struggled in running the ball consistently contributed to this as well. Based on this I would be a big pass on Cav. Even TJ Woods grades out significantly better based on these measurements. I was surprised when this same type analysis showed that Banker has always performed well. I always felt that Banker's shortcomings were fairly easy to spot and still do. From my analysis Banker always had a top 50 defense in points allowed per game. Most seasons with Riley it was top 30. The other tell tale sign was that both locations Banker left the points per increased by almost 10 per game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 18:36:47 GMT -8
I am hoping for Mike Johnson to be OC. The connection is there (Smith's QB coach in 99) and he has both an NFL and college background so I think he'd bring good ideas to the table.
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Post by biggieorange on Dec 1, 2017 21:26:34 GMT -8
Yeah, I understand the feeling. OSU had some bad olines, continues to have bad olines, and will probably in the future have very few competent Olinemen. Coach 9er should plan accordingly. OSU has also had some good olines too though. So it doesn't seem like it's impossible to put together a strong OL, but I do think that it's going to need to be a ZBS in order to be successful at OSU. For all of our griping about Danny being in love with the pass, when Quizz was in the backfield we were running the ball 25-30 times per game and overall they used him fairly brilliantly with the wildcat formations, catching out of the backfield, screen game, and running between the tackles. And that OL wasn't particularly good either. The last good Oline was a decade ago. Ancient history. OSU has good linemen, but very few good lines. 2007 was above average but not great, if I recall it was smoke and mirrors Oline play heald together by duct tape. 2006 was the last really great Oline. So 12 years ago. Every other Oline was a C- or C+, with an occasional F thrown in.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Dec 1, 2017 21:36:45 GMT -8
You are actually underselling the play-calling. Oregon State averaged 32 rushing attempts per game in 2010, 34 in 2009, and 37 in 2008, more like 30-40 rushes/game. The Beavers only fell below 30 rushes/game under Langs in 2011 and 2013. Rushes/Game: 2005 38
2006 34 The running clock on kickoffs reduced the number of plays, which makes this number more of an outlier.
2007 42 Fly sweep.
2008 37
2009 34
2010 32
2011 27
2012 34
2013 27
2014 31Run:Pass 2005 47.48%
2006 52.73%
2007 55.26% Fly sweep.2008 52.09% 2009 47.93% 2010 50.59% 2011 38.73% 2012 46.72% 2013 36.26% 2014 44.34%Wilky, we don't tell you often enough what a treasure you are. This is interesting and informative data... you are the man. Thanks, OA. I feel the same about you and ATown. I feel like I learn a lot from you guys.
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