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Post by jdogge on Nov 8, 2017 19:16:32 GMT -8
Look for a few continuances plus a change of venue. Probable change of counsel. That flies all the time in the land of Mao All while detained waiting for trial. It's not like here: they'll likely stay locked up until trial. |
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Post by seastape on Nov 8, 2017 21:22:40 GMT -8
I know nothing of Chinese criminal law, but the way the article presents the law, "anyone convicted of 'robbing public or private property using force, coercion, or other methods,'” sounds like the American version of robbery, which is a whole lot different than theft, be it petty or grand. Force or coercion are what elevates a theft crime into robbery in the US; it is the element of violence that makes theft a robbery in the US. The question I have is about the "other methods" part of the law...what does that mean? If it is alluding to other types of violence, then I don't think that the players committed the crime described in the article, but instead committed a lesser, theft-related crime. |
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Post by Werebeaver on Nov 8, 2017 22:35:42 GMT -8
I know nothing of Chinese criminal law, but the way the article presents the law, "anyone convicted of 'robbing public or private property using force, coercion, or other methods,'” sounds like the American version of robbery, which is a whole lot different than theft, be it petty or grand. Force or coercion are what elevates a theft crime into robbery in the US; it is the element of violence that makes theft a robbery in the US. The question I have is about the "other methods" part of the law...what does that mean? If it is alluding to other types of violence, then I don't think that the players committed the crime described in the article, but instead committed a lesser, theft-related crime. “Other methods” sounds pretty open-ended. |
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Post by seastape on Nov 8, 2017 22:43:34 GMT -8
I know nothing of Chinese criminal law, but the way the article presents the law, "anyone convicted of 'robbing public or private property using force, coercion, or other methods,'” sounds like the American version of robbery, which is a whole lot different than theft, be it petty or grand. Force or coercion are what elevates a theft crime into robbery in the US; it is the element of violence that makes theft a robbery in the US. The question I have is about the "other methods" part of the law...what does that mean? If it is alluding to other types of violence, then I don't think that the players committed the crime described in the article, but instead committed a lesser, theft-related crime. “Other methods” sounds pretty open-ended. I agree. I am just wondering, that if "other methods" includes something like concealment, which is what the typical shoplifter uses. If it doesn't...then the crime may not fit the statute that is quoted.
Another point: the statute quoted uses the word "robbing..." Is that the same sense that is used in the US? Because robbery in the US includes an element of violence. Shoplifitng, unless the players used force to get away, does not. If it is the same definition, then the crime that the players committed would not be included in the statue that was quoted in the article.
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Post by atownbeaver on Nov 9, 2017 9:13:51 GMT -8
Looks to me like his career stats at UCLA will be limited to 1 steal. |
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Post by Tigardbeav on Nov 9, 2017 13:27:01 GMT -8
“Other methods” sounds pretty open-ended. I agree. I am just wondering, that if "other methods" includes something like concealment, which is what the typical shoplifter uses. If it doesn't...then the crime may not fit the statute that is quoted.
Another point: the statute quoted uses the word "robbing..." Is that the same sense that is used in the US? Because robbery in the US includes an element of violence. Shoplifitng, unless the players used force to get away, does not. If it is the same definition, then the crime that the players committed would not be included in the statue that was quoted in the article.
I think both of youse are not understanding Chinese law. The verdict is already in. I don't think they worry about technicalities like due process & evidence based fact finding. All that is left is to plead guilty... and move along. UCLA BB is probably negotiating what it is they are going to plead guilty to. Ever see the Chinese stock market? It's not an open and clear case |
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Post by jdogge on Nov 9, 2017 17:41:46 GMT -8
I know nothing of Chinese criminal law, but the way the article presents the law, "anyone convicted of 'robbing public or private property using force, coercion, or other methods,'” sounds like the American version of robbery, which is a whole lot different than theft, be it petty or grand. Force or coercion are what elevates a theft crime into robbery in the US; it is the element of violence that makes theft a robbery in the US. The question I have is about the "other methods" part of the law...what does that mean? If it is alluding to other types of violence, then I don't think that the players committed the crime described in the article, but instead committed a lesser, theft-related crime. |
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Post by TheGlove on Nov 9, 2017 22:34:29 GMT -8
Looks to me like his career stats at UCLA will be limited to 1 steal. lololololololol |
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Post by baseba1111 on Nov 9, 2017 22:44:26 GMT -8
Looks to me like his career stats at UCLA will be limited to 1 steal. lololololololol TNT Laker post game... Shack, Kenny, Charles were brutal/ruthless on the UCLA situation... non-stop sunglasses, 20 day hotel stays... "Lakers future is so bright... they need shades". |
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Post by usmc1958 on Nov 10, 2017 11:16:42 GMT -8
Isn't China one of those great countries where you are guilty unless they give you the opportunity to prove you are maybe not guilty. Didn't work out so well for the unfortunate young man who stole a banner in N. Korea. |
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,837 
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Nov 13, 2017 13:38:31 GMT -8
The real failing here (other than UCLA players with questionable ethics and decision-making skills [might go back to parenting, LaVar]), is UCLA coaching staff providing the necessary cultural awareness required when you visit countries that are quite different from the USA:
- basketball not on the same pedestal where "boys will be boys" defense carries weight
- breaking the law, any law, could land you in very hot water with less recourse to legal process as you know it
- legal process as you know it might not exist
- any decision that may not pass the "headline test" might also make you a political pawn to boot
- even simple misunderstandings might not get cleared up as easily, since "loss of face" is a thing there
This needed to be explained in very small syllable words to these players, and whether it was or not, it didn't stick.
(Same as if you are in a chauffeured car in India [which you likely will be, since most can't drive there and live to tell about it], and your driver rams into some poor person/vehicle, you might want to flee the scene of the accident rather than stick around for the riot and car occupant beatings that usually ensue. Not something the average American is going to realize.....)
Random off-topic story: I had to give a conference talk in China not that long ago on Cloud Computing, and the government actually had to approve my slides, and several got removed for reasons I still don't understand. Unfortunately no one bothered to give me the heads up on the slide deck edits, and so I discovered it in a conference kick off session with ~10K people looking on.
Go Beavers!
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Nov 13, 2017 15:53:15 GMT -8
Isn't China one of those great countries where you are guilty unless they give you the opportunity to prove you are maybe not guilty. Didn't work out so well for the unfortunate young man who stole a banner in N. Korea. They are lucky that they did not do this three years ago. Several petty crimes were punishable by death up until the summer of 2015. At least it is not North Korea. Otto Warmbier. Terrible story. Sentence was 15 years hard labor, because the banner was political. And the whole thing was based on grainy footage of someone stealing the poster. Warmbier was Jewish but confessed to stealing the poster at the behest of the Methodist Church and CIA. The fact that the Warmbier story was not a bigger story is astounding. I want to here more about the shoes that Melania wore to Texas, darnit! |
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Post by mbabeav on Nov 13, 2017 17:22:31 GMT -8
This thread has nothing to do with OSU basketball and ought to be moved to the non-OSU sports board.
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Post by TheGlove on Nov 13, 2017 19:44:44 GMT -8
This thread has nothing to do with OSU basketball and ought to be moved to the non-OSU sports board. True. |
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