First test of the season will come next Monday

This game will definitely be a good test for the Beavers. Wyoming won the CBI last year and have most of their team back -- losing third leading scorer and one other rotation player who was starting at end of the season. They take a lot of 3s (guy they lost was their leading 3-pt scorer), which after reading the Pacific thread could be some problems for Beavers. Cowboys seem to have a lot of seniors and have length (top 3 returning scorers are listed at 6-7, 6-8, and 6-9). Certainly isn't going to be an easy game.

A loss to Wyoming wouldn't mean the season is lost.  They ARE experienced, while we're trying to re-integrate Tres Tinkle and train some freshmen.  Kone is also out, and he could be a difference maker if he can come back healthy.  However, a WIN vs Wyoming could mean good things are coming.

Well no game is in the bag, but I refuse to think of last year as "the norm."  We might not see the improvement we'd all like to see, but if we can't beat a S. Utah team that went 6-27 last year and lost its best player by far (23.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 3.2 apg, 1.5 spg -- all of which led the team) as well as 2 other starters then we be in trouble.  

As I have watched the Beavers since Tinkle started coaching them there are two things that are very disturbing to me in terms of likely success this year for the Beavers:

(1) In the first year of coaching the team, the team defense (both effort and execution) were outstanding. The team offense while severely limited by a lack of talent was disciplined, with good passing, player movement, and effort.

(2)Since the end of the second year, team defense in my opinion has virtually disappeared. On offense, good passing, moving without the ball, court balance are seldom seen.

(3) The team seems to play the way you would imagine an AAU All Star team would play. It appears that every player thinks he is a possible NBA All Star and that on individual talent alone OSU can win games.

(4) Coach Tinkle seems to not be able to change (2) and (3). Not sure why, but the players most often seem to be doing what they want to do on offense and defense, not what he should be demanding they do.

As a fan I go way back to the Ralph Miller era. Fundamentals, fundamentals, fundamentals. If a player (any player) no matter how talented did not play team basketball, he did not play.

Thank you for you well thought out response.

"my kids won't listen, and I don't have the depth to put anybody on the bench" seems to me to be the road to ruin.

However, I will try to keep an open mind and hope for the best.

Your insights on Gary Payton and Tres Tinkle were outstanding. Again, thank you!

The key phrase in this post is "Since the end of the second year". Well, last  year was year three, so that's the one you are talking about, we only had 3 returing scholarship players come back (of which only 2 averaged 8 minutes or more of playing time the previous year) and play a full season.  The Beavers were woefully shorthanded on returing talent Tinkle"s first two years and he made it work defensively. Last year they were even more woefully shorthanded on returning talent. This year is a wealth of riches in comparison to last, and an improvement over the first two years.  I expect to see a big improvement.  We now have the depth that a team should have (and frankly we're still a young team), and we can now see how Tinkle will handle it.

Nothing much that hasn't been said before, but I think last year was an anomaly. Young team, lack of depth made critical by injuries, and one of those injuries being Tres resulted in a team that had no leader and didn't have enough talent. Was effort lacking at points last season? Sure it was. Did we look like a cohesive team last year? No we didn't. But we have to remember we were a very inexperienced team without the talent to compete on many nights. On those nights we didn't have the luxury of a large portion of our roster knowing the system and having gone through the trials and tribulations of a college basketball season. So, yes, we saw too much iso and players trying to do too much as individuals, and then hanging their heads as the losses mounted. They didn't play as a team because they had never established themselves as a team and didn't know how to play as one together. Does some of that fall on Tinkle? Sure it does. But I think it was more a matter of a young, leadership-less team just never being able to get their head above water let alone on solid ground. I felt Tres would be the leader last year but that ended with his injury. But I think we'll see that come to fruition this year. I don't buy the "it is difficult for the coach's kid to be a leader" argument. Doug McDermott and R.J. Hunter had no problem being leaders in college. Tres's work ethic, being the best player on the team, and having to sit through last year's debacle will have him taking the mantle of leader. ST Jr. will step up some. I think Jaquori with a year of experience will start showing a bit more on court leadership. And hopefully one of the things Drew heard during his pro assessment process was that he needs to at least go hard all the time and lead by example. Then you have Berger, who has been through the wars, and Ethan, who seems to have some leadership skills of his own.

My introduction to OSU b-ball was also when Ralph Miller was coach. In high school our basketball coach was very similar to Miller. It wasn't until I went to OSU and was reading about Miller in the media guide that I realized that the reason in hindsight that my high school coach reminded me of Miller is because he actually played for Miller at Wichita St. So lack of team play and fundamentals kills me too, but unfortunately the game and players have changed. I think it is easier for the players to tune out a coach because they've been able to do it all along because of lack of repercussions. That's why the best coaches aren't just great X and Os guys or disciplinarians, they are able to create an atmosphere where players can form the bonds needed to be a team. When that happens a player can't tune out a coach because the leaders on the team set him straight. I think Tinkle was able to do all that before and, like I said, last year was an anomaly. Damn I'm excited for the season to start. Guess I'm staying up late this Friday night.