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Post by beavadelic on Oct 2, 2017 7:39:02 GMT -8
Although I'm rapidly losing faith in CGA's leadership of our football program, I see no way that a change is going to be made at the end of this season, even if we finish 1-11 (which should have probably been 0-12 given how lucky we were to beat PSU even).
As a result of 99% likelihood that CGA will still be our coach to start the 2018 season, maybe the answer to give us a shred of hope is for Barnes to give him an ultimatum: Fire both of your coordinators or else. While I would argue CGA has hamstrung these guys with his own decision-making and recruiting to needs, the fundamentals are sorely lacking, particularly in technique for both our O and D lines, and really our front 7 on D. We are horrible at maintaining assignments, and tackling techniques (I.e. we constantly fail to contain on the edges or maintain outside leverage, and our tackling angles are often horrible. In consideration of this, I wonder about our O and D line coaches as well. Scheme issues are on the coordinators, but technique and individual player development is in the position coaches.
I know that the "Jimmys and Joes" do matter if you're going to compete for conference titles and beyond, but at least half of our roster is PAC 12 worthy, IMO - I see it in isolated situations when individuals make certain types of plays. However, although we aren't as loaded as most other teams in our conference depth of talent-wise, if our kids were coached up soundly we SHOULD be able to play .500 ball and compete in this conference against the likes of Cal, the Arizonas and pretty much anyone but UW and USC. Likewise the talent gap with uo is not yet that great (but is rapidly changing for the worst for us)
Assistants are on a yearly contract, I believe. Even if they weren't, letting them go wouldn't cost near what it would to dump CGA right now. Let's clean house, and demand that Captain Underwhelmingpantserson look somewhere other than the Utah Valley for his new assistants. With all due respect to the Beehive State, this coaching nepotism thing has failed, and we need fresh and fundamentally- sound folks without any roots in this dried up coaching tree to come in and clean up the basics before we can hope to tackle the issue of competitiveness in this tough Power 5 conference!
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 2, 2017 8:00:09 GMT -8
Although I'm rapidly losing faith in CGA's leadership of our football program, I see no way that a change is going to be made at the end of this season, even if we finish 1-11 (which should have probably been 0-12 given how lucky we were to beat PSU even). As a result of 99% likelihood that CGA will still be our coach to start the 2018 season, maybe the answer to give us a shred of hope is for Barnes to give him an ultimatum: Fire both of your coordinators or else. While I would argue CGA has hamstrung these guys with his own decision-making and recruiting to needs, the fundamentals are sorely lacking, particularly in technique for both our O and D lines, and really our front 7 on D. We are horrible at maintaining assignments, and tackling techniques (I.e. we constantly fail to contain on the edges or maintain outside leverage, and our tackling angles are often horrible. In consideration of this, I wonder about our O and D line coaches as well. Scheme issues are on the coordinators, but technique and individual player development is in the position coaches. I know that the "Jimmys and Joes" do matter if you're going to compete for conference titles and beyond, but at least half of our roster is PAC 12 worthy, IMO - I see it in isolated situations when individuals make certain types of plays. However, although we aren't as loaded as most other teams in our conference depth of talent-wise, if our kids were coached up soundly we SHOULD be able to play .500 ball and compete in this conference against the likes of Cal, the Arizonas and pretty much anyone but UW and USC. Likewise the talent gap with uo is not yet that great (but is rapidly changing for the worst for us) Assistants are on a yearly contract, I believe. Even if they weren't, letting them go wouldn't cost near what it would to dump CGA right now. Let's clean house, and demand that Captain Underwhelmingpantserson look somewhere other than the Utah Valley for his new assistants. With all due respect to the Beehive State, this coaching nepotism thing has failed, and we need fresh and fundamentally- sound folks without any roots in this dried up coaching tree to come in and clean up the basics before we can hope to tackle the issue of competitiveness in this tough Power 5 conference! What quality assts are going to come to coach with a possible "dead man walking" without multi year contract or promise of "coach in waiting"?? |
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Post by nabeav on Oct 2, 2017 8:00:32 GMT -8
I think it depends on what the problem actually is, and I don't know the answer to that. If it truly is the coaching staff, well then yes, let them go. However, the guy that hired them has to shoulder some of that blame. If the problem isn't necessarily the coaches (Clune, McGiven, Sitake, and Baldwin were all successful prior to coming here, and I believe many of us considered the original staff a "dream team" of coaches), well, then that sends the message that our coaching staff is sacrificial lambs that are going to shoulder all of the burden for things that might be outside of their control. I'm not sure experienced, veteran assistants are going to give us a real hard look if they feel like their necks are on the chopping block when things go south. I mean, at various times we've had Baldwin, McGiven, Woods, and we even brought in Gary Crowton for a while to try and fix the offense. None of it has worked. It started to look better the end of last season (admittedly against bad opponents), but then we decided to bring in a passing game coordinator and shift to a pro style qb. Who made that decision? Was it McGiven? Was it Gary? That decision looks more and more curious with every game. I read that we "pared down" the playbook for Garretson because he doesn't have the arm Luton does, but Luton wasn't throwing deep anyways! After the TD strike to Hodgins vs. Portland State, I'm having a hard time remembering a ball thrown more than 15 yards down the field until Garretson threw one (incomplete) on Saturday...and I think that was the only one. We weren't using Luton's arm anyways.
I'm very skeptical that the coordinators are the real problem. There's something larger (and probably not related to schemes or football ablility) going on with this team. These guys aren't playing for each other or for the coaches. I'm starting to wonder if the coaches are even on speaking terms outside the building right now.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 2, 2017 8:02:49 GMT -8
I think it depends on what the problem actually is, and I don't know the answer to that. If it truly is the coaching staff, well then yes, let them go. However, the guy that hired them has to shoulder some of that blame. If the problem isn't necessarily the coaches (Clune, McGiven, Sitake, and Baldwin were all successful prior to coming here, and I believe many of us considered the original staff a "dream team" of coaches), well, then that sends the message that our coaching staff is sacrificial lambs that are going to shoulder all of the burden for things that might be outside of their control. I'm not sure experienced, veteran assistants are going to give us a real hard look if they feel like their necks are on the chopping block when things go south. I mean, at various times we've had Baldwin, McGiven, Woods, and we even brought in Gary Crowton for a while to try and fix the offense. None of it has worked. It started to look better the end of last season (admittedly against bad opponents), but then we decided to bring in a passing game coordinator and shift to a pro style qb. Who made that decision? Was it McGiven? Was it Gary? That decision looks more and more curious with every game. I read that we "pared down" the playbook for Garretson because he doesn't have the arm Luton does, but Luton wasn't throwing deep anyways! After the TD strike to Hodgins vs. Portland State, I'm having a hard time remembering a ball thrown more than 15 yards down the field until Garretson threw one (incomplete) on Saturday...and I think that was the only one. We weren't using Luton's arm anyways. I'm very skeptical that the coordinators are the real problem. There's something larger (and probably not related to schemes or football ablility) going on with this team. These guys aren't playing for each other or for the coaches. I'm starting to wonder if the coaches are even on speaking terms outside the building right now. It would be weird if they don't since they all pretty much live I the same neighborhood. Must be interesting dynamic amongst the wives when the HC tosses the assistants under the bus. |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 2, 2017 8:14:08 GMT -8
I think it depends on what the problem actually is, and I don't know the answer to that. If it truly is the coaching staff, well then yes, let them go. However, the guy that hired them has to shoulder some of that blame. If the problem isn't necessarily the coaches (Clune, McGiven, Sitake, and Baldwin were all successful prior to coming here, and I believe many of us considered the original staff a "dream team" of coaches), well, then that sends the message that our coaching staff is sacrificial lambs that are going to shoulder all of the burden for things that might be outside of their control. I'm not sure experienced, veteran assistants are going to give us a real hard look if they feel like their necks are on the chopping block when things go south. I mean, at various times we've had Baldwin, McGiven, Woods, and we even brought in Gary Crowton for a while to try and fix the offense. None of it has worked. It started to look better the end of last season (admittedly against bad opponents), but then we decided to bring in a passing game coordinator and shift to a pro style qb. Who made that decision? Was it McGiven? Was it Gary? That decision looks more and more curious with every game. I read that we "pared down" the playbook for Garretson because he doesn't have the arm Luton does, but Luton wasn't throwing deep anyways! After the TD strike to Hodgins vs. Portland State, I'm having a hard time remembering a ball thrown more than 15 yards down the field until Garretson threw one (incomplete) on Saturday...and I think that was the only one. We weren't using Luton's arm anyways. I'm very skeptical that the coordinators are the real problem. There's something larger (and probably not related to schemes or football ablility) going on with this team. These guys aren't playing for each other or for the coaches. I'm starting to wonder if the coaches are even on speaking terms outside the building right now.Well, I am not sure how else you explain the "throw a dart at the board" approach to the game plans each week. How do you explain 3 years of Ryan Nall runs for over a hundred yards then doesn't get a carry the next week type of thing we have seen over and over again? This recent Hodgin "I dunno why he wasn't in the game" kerfuffle is just one of many WTF moments. These silly games they play. to what end? for what purpose? how is that NOT the coaches? One systematic issue I see, is that the coaches decide (incorrectly) in their minds what a player can and cannot do and then that is the end of the story. The whole Pierce getting the start because we wanted to attack the edge as an example. Player's ain't dumb. when they see coaches playing games like this, benching health players for no stated reason... game planning away from your studs with disastrous results, not having a snap count order that makes sense... Promoting players ahead of other players... How on earth can you have a positive attitude among so much chaos and inconsistency. How can you be your best when you are always walking on egg shells. Why would you work your ass off in practice all week, then never get your number called in a game, despite practicing as a #1 all week? The coaches are waging a culture war and losing. They are picking the winners and losers on factors that have nothing to do with how good of a football player you are. We have a laundry list of ex Oregon State football players that have gone on to other schools and found success. The buck stops somewhere, and that somewhere is Anderpants and his merry band of fools. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2017 8:33:31 GMT -8
Although I'm rapidly losing faith in CGA's leadership of our football program, I see no way that a change is going to be made at the end of this season, even if we finish 1-11 (which should have probably been 0-12 given how lucky we were to beat PSU even). As a result of 99% likelihood that CGA will still be our coach to start the 2018 season, maybe the answer to give us a shred of hope is for Barnes to give him an ultimatum: Fire both of your coordinators or else. While I would argue CGA has hamstrung these guys with his own decision-making and recruiting to needs, the fundamentals are sorely lacking, particularly in technique for both our O and D lines, and really our front 7 on D. We are horrible at maintaining assignments, and tackling techniques (I.e. we constantly fail to contain on the edges or maintain outside leverage, and our tackling angles are often horrible. In consideration of this, I wonder about our O and D line coaches as well. Scheme issues are on the coordinators, but technique and individual player development is in the position coaches. I know that the "Jimmys and Joes" do matter if you're going to compete for conference titles and beyond, but at least half of our roster is PAC 12 worthy, IMO - I see it in isolated situations when individuals make certain types of plays. However, although we aren't as loaded as most other teams in our conference depth of talent-wise, if our kids were coached up soundly we SHOULD be able to play .500 ball and compete in this conference against the likes of Cal, the Arizonas and pretty much anyone but UW and USC. Likewise the talent gap with uo is not yet that great (but is rapidly changing for the worst for us) Assistants are on a yearly contract, I believe. Even if they weren't, letting them go wouldn't cost near what it would to dump CGA right now. Let's clean house, and demand that Captain Underwhelmingpantserson look somewhere other than the Utah Valley for his new assistants. With all due respect to the Beehive State, this coaching nepotism thing has failed, and we need fresh and fundamentally- sound folks without any roots in this dried up coaching tree to come in and clean up the basics before we can hope to tackle the issue of competitiveness in this tough Power 5 conference! GA already had a do over with both his coords. Still not sure Clune is all bad. The D has definitely played some good quarters. The offense is just a fried egg on the sidewalk. Nobody wants to eat that. I don't think GA can be trusted to make good choices in personnel, either assistants or players. |
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Post by nabeav on Oct 2, 2017 8:37:25 GMT -8
I think it depends on what the problem actually is, and I don't know the answer to that. If it truly is the coaching staff, well then yes, let them go. However, the guy that hired them has to shoulder some of that blame. If the problem isn't necessarily the coaches (Clune, McGiven, Sitake, and Baldwin were all successful prior to coming here, and I believe many of us considered the original staff a "dream team" of coaches), well, then that sends the message that our coaching staff is sacrificial lambs that are going to shoulder all of the burden for things that might be outside of their control. I'm not sure experienced, veteran assistants are going to give us a real hard look if they feel like their necks are on the chopping block when things go south. I mean, at various times we've had Baldwin, McGiven, Woods, and we even brought in Gary Crowton for a while to try and fix the offense. None of it has worked. It started to look better the end of last season (admittedly against bad opponents), but then we decided to bring in a passing game coordinator and shift to a pro style qb. Who made that decision? Was it McGiven? Was it Gary? That decision looks more and more curious with every game. I read that we "pared down" the playbook for Garretson because he doesn't have the arm Luton does, but Luton wasn't throwing deep anyways! After the TD strike to Hodgins vs. Portland State, I'm having a hard time remembering a ball thrown more than 15 yards down the field until Garretson threw one (incomplete) on Saturday...and I think that was the only one. We weren't using Luton's arm anyways. I'm very skeptical that the coordinators are the real problem. There's something larger (and probably not related to schemes or football ablility) going on with this team. These guys aren't playing for each other or for the coaches. I'm starting to wonder if the coaches are even on speaking terms outside the building right now.Well, I am not sure how else you explain the "throw a dart at the board" approach to the game plans each week. How do you explain 3 years of Ryan Nall runs for over a hundred yards then doesn't get a carry the next week type of thing we have seen over and over again? This recent Hodgin "I dunno why he wasn't in the game" kerfuffle is just one of many WTF moments. These silly games they play. to what end? for what purpose? how is that NOT the coaches? One systematic issue I see, is that the coaches decide (incorrectly) in their minds what a player can and cannot do and then that is the end of the story. The whole Pierce getting the start because we wanted to attack the edge as an example. Player's ain't dumb. when they see coaches playing games like this, benching health players for no stated reason... game planning away from your studs with disastrous results, not having a snap count order that makes sense... Promoting players ahead of other players... How on earth can you have a positive attitude among so much chaos and inconsistency. How can you be your best when you are always walking on egg shells. Why would you work your ass off in practice all week, then never get your number called in a game, despite practicing as a #1 all week? The coaches are waging a culture war and losing. They are picking the winners and losers on factors that have nothing to do with how good of a football player you are. We have a laundry list of ex Oregon State football players that have gone on to other schools and found success. The buck stops somewhere, and that somewhere is Anderpants and his merry band of fools. Oh no, it's definitely the coaches. I mean that replacing all the assistants might not solve what really ails this team. I refuse to believe that the talent level on this team is worse than it was in 2014. |
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Oct 2, 2017 9:09:09 GMT -8
I'm thinking the D is coming around. If our offense could have managed to stay on the field 60 plays or so it would have been a much closer game. We, unfortunately, need yet another reset on offense. That gets tricky. At this point it would be nice to see GA pull a Bellotti and hire someone few of us know, someone he's not friends with, who's putting crazy offensive numbers on the board somewhere and wants to coach at this level, and then stay out of the offense's way. That might not fix it, but it could MAYBE make it look like they're trying to change things.
I was ok with McGiven, but as mentioned earlier, there's been all of one completion that went 30 yards or more in the air all season. Now I realize DG probably can't accurately toss a football that far, but our passing offense this last game I can only recall 8-9 attempts that weren't to the running back in the backfield, and I don't recall a single attempt 15-20 yards downfield ( surely there had to be some?).
I don't like not giving a coach 4-5 years and have defended a bunch of pretty unsuccessful coaches here over the last 4 decades or so, but I'm having a tough time finding things to be optimistic about this time around.
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Post by beavadelic on Oct 2, 2017 11:53:03 GMT -8
Good points by everyone. I too have little confidence that we would find the kind of competence out there to replace these guys. As was mentioned, it's doubtful that anyone who is seasoned and strong would want to cast their lot with a sinking ship.
I'm also skeptical that the assistants are the true root problem. I was just thinking out loud, because I'm having such a hard time coming up with anything to be optimistic about if we can't cut bait with Andersen and have to face another season of this mess with no changes.
While I see more glimpses of things that make me feel that the defense is improving, it's just so tough to feel like we're stuck there too. We are thin and limited in terms of defensive bodies with talent, so we are overmatched badly when we attempt to play straight up. So, we sell out to stop the run, and except for the aforementioned inconsistency in tackling we can hang for a while. But when quality teams adjust and throw the ball, our lack of a pass rush on most plays costs us with big plays. As the game goes on, the combination of too much time on the field, proper adjustments by the opponent, and superior talent on most teams (should NOT have been the issue against anyone but the Huskies to this point, but those teams were much better coached) keep resulting in our D running out of gas and eventually crumbling.
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Post by osbrawler on Oct 5, 2017 6:37:12 GMT -8
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 5, 2017 7:45:02 GMT -8
GAG been on "lists" since June... I believe I posted at least 3-4 in another thread. |
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Post by bucktoothvarmit on Oct 5, 2017 8:24:16 GMT -8
One wonders how much insulation is sewn into the seat of "big boy pants" 
Go Beavs!!
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Post by beavadelic on Oct 5, 2017 13:08:31 GMT -8
Nit-picky, I know, but one quote in there re: ASU said that the Devils have lost two games by 8 points, one of those losses to Oregon. Hmm, pretty sure that ASU beat them in Tempe a couple weeks ago! Was the writer a duck alum? When pros mess up facts a have trouble reading further. |
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Post by gobeavs92 on Oct 5, 2017 13:40:29 GMT -8
Although I'm rapidly losing faith in CGA's leadership of our football program, I see no way that a change is going to be made at the end of this season, even if we finish 1-11 (which should have probably been 0-12 given how lucky we were to beat PSU even). As a result of 99% likelihood that CGA will still be our coach to start the 2018 season, maybe the answer to give us a shred of hope is for Barnes to give him an ultimatum: Fire both of your coordinators or else. While I would argue CGA has hamstrung these guys with his own decision-making and recruiting to needs, the fundamentals are sorely lacking, particularly in technique for both our O and D lines, and really our front 7 on D. We are horrible at maintaining assignments, and tackling techniques (I.e. we constantly fail to contain on the edges or maintain outside leverage, and our tackling angles are often horrible. In consideration of this, I wonder about our O and D line coaches as well. Scheme issues are on the coordinators, but technique and individual player development is in the position coaches. I know that the "Jimmys and Joes" do matter if you're going to compete for conference titles and beyond, but at least half of our roster is PAC 12 worthy, IMO - I see it in isolated situations when individuals make certain types of plays. However, although we aren't as loaded as most other teams in our conference depth of talent-wise, if our kids were coached up soundly we SHOULD be able to play .500 ball and compete in this conference against the likes of Cal, the Arizonas and pretty much anyone but UW and USC. Likewise the talent gap with uo is not yet that great (but is rapidly changing for the worst for us) Assistants are on a yearly contract, I believe. Even if they weren't, letting them go wouldn't cost near what it would to dump CGA right now. Let's clean house, and demand that Captain Underwhelmingpantserson look somewhere other than the Utah Valley for his new assistants. With all due respect to the Beehive State, this coaching nepotism thing has failed, and we need fresh and fundamentally- sound folks without any roots in this dried up coaching tree to come in and clean up the basics before we can hope to tackle the issue of competitiveness in this tough Power 5 conference! I know some friends that have pretty good knowledge of the game and of the University and they are still buying in to CGA, Lockette and a couple others but can't stand McGiven. I disagree with them but respect their opinions. By the way, I agree on McGiven (or his inability to game plan and call plays) not him personally (don't know him). But just through observations and my own experiences in football, I really have to say that in my opinion, the blame does all fall on CGA (the Head Coach). He hired these assistants and yes, he has moved some around (which is at least applaudable to try and make some changes) but he can't find the right mix and I mean in everything, from the coaches he is putting in place to the players moving positions, overall recruiting, etc.. The one thing I will say, is that I don't attack any of these coaches personally! I also understand a little of what they are going through with the bad season, having outsiders bad mouth coaches and the program, all of that noise and I don't wish that kinda crap on anyone. They are people and sometimes as hard headed as people can be, it takes a face plant to realize you're wrong. However when you are making A LOT of money, to; operate, manage, lead a football program/team and win games and you're not doing those things well..... then it's pretty cut and dry. It's unfortunately to the point where I don't even want to watch the games because of the lack of competing (for the whole game)! When a team is competitive and they are losing because of some bad breaks or they're just completely over matched, that's one thing! But when they have talent being under utilized, they aren't being put in good position on both sides of the ball in games, they are continually making similar errors in every game, that's not acceptable to me. An accountable person not only says "it's on me" but they fix it! They find a way to improve. They do not continue to spiral downward. This program is in a downward spiral in my opinion. Sad to say but that's what I honestly believe! Go Beavs! |
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