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Post by biggieorange on Sept 14, 2017 20:04:26 GMT -8
An interesting take from Robert Ingle over at Building the Dam "Coach Andersen needs to re-evaluate his approach to the game. Go back to the very beginning and challenge every assumption he’s made going back from the off-season until now. It is pretty clear that the assumptions and the approach he has been working with are failing him."L INKY
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2017 20:36:48 GMT -8
An interesting take from Robert Ingle over at Building the Dam "Coach Andersen needs to re-evaluate his approach to the game. Go back to the very beginning and challenge every assumption he’s made going back from the off-season until now. It is pretty clear that the assumptions and the approach he has been working with are failing him."L INKYand how is he going to go back to the very beginning Marty? Don't you see, the time machine doesn't go back to the point in time when he started ripping the Riley program to shreds! seriously, CGA thought the best approach was to baseline the program. New system, new players, new everything. Lots of board geniuses now crying folly about that, but mostly after the fact when the product on the field cratered because of this approach. Most people thought the program needed an overhaul. Perhaps! it would have made more sense to re purpose as much of the good Riley stuff as possible, stick with the passing game, try to retain players, use the 4-3 etc. And maybe if Anderson didn't agree to that approach seriously look at other candidates. Maybe think about doubling back to Riley after he bolted and ask him who would be good to hand off the program to. Who would that have been? Would it have been wholly successful? Partially successful? Doesn't matter now. Maybe the ship will right itself with the current coaches and plays etc. Or maybe GA's only legacy will be that he flatlined the program.
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Post by biggieorange on Sept 15, 2017 7:02:07 GMT -8
An interesting take from Robert Ingle over at Building the Dam "Coach Andersen needs to re-evaluate his approach to the game. Go back to the very beginning and challenge every assumption he’s made going back from the off-season until now. It is pretty clear that the assumptions and the approach he has been working with are failing him."L INKYand how is he going to go back to the very beginning Marty? Don't you see, the time machine doesn't go back to the point in time when he started ripping the Riley program to shreds! seriously, CGA thought the best approach was to baseline the program. New system, new players, new everything. Lots of board geniuses now crying folly about that, but mostly after the fact when the product on the field cratered because of this approach. Most people thought the program needed an overhaul. Perhaps! it would have made more sense to re purpose as much of the good Riley stuff as possible, stick with the passing game, try to retain players, use the 4-3 etc. And maybe if Anderson didn't agree to that approach seriously look at other candidates. Maybe think about doubling back to Riley after he bolted and ask him who would be good to hand off the program to. Who would that have been? Would it have been wholly successful? Partially successful? Doesn't matter now. Maybe the ship will right itself with the current coaches and plays etc. Or maybe GA's only legacy will be that he flatlined the program. Actually there were PLENTY of angst about Del Rio, I mean thread after thread after thread. So plenty of us "board geniuses" have been banging away for 3 seasons, although in the first year we typically ended our posts with something like, "well he has been successful in the past" or "I trust he knows what he is doing". Of course I have to mention that there was a very vocal minority that clapped their hands in GLEE that he was tearing down what Riley built because they saw the program as a soft, coddling, predictable system that should be torn apart. If you want so REAL Monday morning QBing, I think 2 things, one in his control and one not have put him here. First, Sitake taking the BYU job. Second, running off all the QB's that could throw a 10 yard out that first season. If Sitake stays and we have a bunch of veteran accuate QBs running a offensive plan that EVERYONE has been working at for 3 years, this isn't such a mess. I mean they might be still 1-2 but not the blowout losses.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2017 7:27:32 GMT -8
and how is he going to go back to the very beginning Marty? Don't you see, the time machine doesn't go back to the point in time when he started ripping the Riley program to shreds! seriously, CGA thought the best approach was to baseline the program. New system, new players, new everything. Lots of board geniuses now crying folly about that, but mostly after the fact when the product on the field cratered because of this approach. Most people thought the program needed an overhaul. Perhaps! it would have made more sense to re purpose as much of the good Riley stuff as possible, stick with the passing game, try to retain players, use the 4-3 etc. And maybe if Anderson didn't agree to that approach seriously look at other candidates. Maybe think about doubling back to Riley after he bolted and ask him who would be good to hand off the program to. Who would that have been? Would it have been wholly successful? Partially successful? Doesn't matter now. Maybe the ship will right itself with the current coaches and plays etc. Or maybe GA's only legacy will be that he flatlined the program. Actually there were PLENTY of angst about El Dio, I mean thread after thread after thread. So plenty of us "board geniuses" have been banging away for 3 seasons, although in the first year we typically ended our posts with something like, "well he has been successful in the past" or "I trust he knows what he is doing". Of course I have to mention that there was a very vocal minority that clapped their hands in GLEE that he was tearing down what Riley built because they saw the program as a soft, coddling, predictable system that should be torn apart. If you want so REAL Monday morning QBing, I think 2 things, one in his control and one not have put him here. First, Sitake taking the BYU job. Second, running off all the QB's that could throw a 10 yard out that first season. If Sitake stays and we have a bunch of veteran accuate QBs running a offensive plan that EVERYONE has been working at for 3 years, this isn't such a mess. I mean they might be still 1-2 but not the blowout losses. Sitake was the very first to throw players under the bus, in the very first pre season calling the hold over players soft, comments after games, as if his reputation as a defensive genius was at stake. He certainly didn't get immediate results and who knows if he had bought in where we would be at. I wasn't very impressed with his efforts at OS. And we will see how far BYU gets with their 10 points a game offense.
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Post by seastape on Sept 15, 2017 7:32:04 GMT -8
An interesting take from Robert Ingle over at Building the Dam "Coach Andersen needs to re-evaluate his approach to the game. Go back to the very beginning and challenge every assumption he’s made going back from the off-season until now. It is pretty clear that the assumptions and the approach he has been working with are failing him."L INKYHe's already done that several times. He has switched OC's. He has switched OL's over and over. He has switched QB's over and over. He always reassesses the RB's every game. He has reassessed whether he have be a spread or a pro style offense. He constantly retools the secondary and LB's. All of this to the point, it seems, that he really has no plan.
It ain't workin'.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 15, 2017 7:50:43 GMT -8
An interesting take from Robert Ingle over at Building the Dam "Coach Andersen needs to re-evaluate his approach to the game. Go back to the very beginning and challenge every assumption he’s made going back from the off-season until now. It is pretty clear that the assumptions and the approach he has been working with are failing him."L INKYHe's already done that several times. He has switched OC's. He has switched OL's over and over. He has switched QB's over and over. He always reassesses the RB's every game. He has reassessed whether he have be a spread or a pro style offense. He constantly retools the secondary and LB's. All of this to the point, it seems, that he really has no plan.
It ain't workin'.
But at least the Beavs aren't easily scouted!
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Post by nabeav on Sept 15, 2017 8:09:15 GMT -8
I struggle with this...do you stick with what isn't working, or do you change your approach every four games? For all the talk of "respecting the process," we've used three different OCs (Baldwin, McGiven/Woods, now just McGiven), two different DCs (Sitake/Clune, though that was unavoidable), six different QBs, walk-ons have gotten reps....we've tried running all game. We've tried passing all game. We did some wildcat stuff in the 2015 CW. We've run trick plays. I feel like Andersen knows it isn't working.
I'm unsure of what I want from Andersen....do I want him to keep banging his head against the wall, or do I want him to shuffle everything? Do I want him to resign, or do I want him to say "this is my mess, I'm gonna fix it?" It's a very frustrating situation for everyone involved.....coaches, players, fans, administrators...
As someone else said, regardless of all that: Go BEAVS!
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2ndGenBeaver
Sophomore
Posts: 1,729
Grad Year: 1991 (MS/CS) 1999 (PhD/CS)
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Post by 2ndGenBeaver on Sept 15, 2017 8:33:25 GMT -8
I tend to group coaches largely into 2 groups.
There is the group of young, up-and-coming types that innovate, work with what they have, build on the situation they come into, etc. etc. This type of coach is usually at a smaller (i.e. less prominent football program) school. This kind of coach might hone a system, develop it over time, and then graduate to the big leagues. In the process, they might also bring their school's program into prominence. The key here is the coach doesn't come in preaching a specific approach or system, and cobbles together their approach based on the circumstances they inherit and come into. "Gimmicks" get invented to create opportunities for the best players available to contribute, rather than force fit the players to an over-arching system. The fan base usually has lower expectations, and hope the 'fit the players to an invented system' yields more than "flash in the pan" success, but also realizes their program might be a stepping stone for the coach to move to a more prominent program (especially if the coach evolves a system).
Then there are the "system" coaches - proponents of a specific approach. This kind of coach is more old-school, they revamp the program they take over into their system. This kind of coach usually is the product of a 'coaching tree', has honed their system over the years, and is usually at a more prominent school (read - at a school where they have less challenges recruiting recruits that fit the system). This coach does well almost immediately because the school usually has really good athletes to begin with, even though there may be some "down" years while the system pieces get assembled. The track record and standing/reputation of this coach allows for them to rebuild the system, the fan base is held in abeyance by this fact. Likely this coach is not going anywhere, since they are at a prominent program and have "arrived", NFL notwithstanding.
Overly simplistic? Probably. Complete wrong? Perhaps. But if you allow for my model of the world for a moment, I can at least explain my concern. I am not sure we have decided which camp we are in. This coach has exhibited behaviors of both sorts here, and I can't figure out which model we think we are in.....
Go Beavers!!!
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Post by ochobeavo on Sept 15, 2017 8:44:24 GMT -8
I struggle with this...do you stick with what isn't working, or do you change your approach every four games? For all the talk of "respecting the process," we've used three different OCs (Baldwin, McGiven/Woods, now just McGiven), two different DCs (Sitake/Clune, though that was unavoidable), six different QBs, walk-ons have gotten reps....we've tried running all game. We've tried passing all game. We did some wildcat stuff in the 2015 CW. We've run trick plays. I feel like Andersen knows it isn't working. I'm unsure of what I want from Andersen....do I want him to keep banging his head against the wall, or do I want him to shuffle everything? Do I want him to resign, or do I want him to say "this is my mess, I'm gonna fix it?" It's a very frustrating situation for everyone involved.....coaches, players, fans, administrators... As someone else said, regardless of all that: Go BEAVS! Well said.. Personally, I think my bigger fear/concern - even more than his "approach" or re-tooling what he does is that I have no clue (or faith) if he can even evaluate/develop talent, or put kids in positions where they will succeed. I don't care what scheme he runs - if we don't have linemen on both sides along with some solid LBs, nothing matters. We brought in 3 JC o-lineman who haven't sniffed the field on offense, we brought in a 4 star CB who is on scout team. Our "next great QB" is now on scout team as a safety. Our starting center has been a d-lineman his entire career up until now. Is it realistic to think he'll be a solid Pac-12 level offensive lineman after 5-6 months of practice? I don't know the answer, but it seems like a stretch. Craig Evans is who knows where. Isaac Garcia is gone.. Shurod Thompson never made it here. Kenny Turnier is back to playing DE in JC and doing a great job through a couple games. I'm too lazy to take the time to see exactly which of GA's recruits are really making an impact on Saturday's but I'm afraid it's a really low number and I'll be more depressed after looking it up (and no, I'm not making this a MR vs GA recruiting, or average stars thing). I'm just frustrated.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 15, 2017 14:50:17 GMT -8
and how is he going to go back to the very beginning Marty? Don't you see, the time machine doesn't go back to the point in time when he started ripping the Riley program to shreds! seriously, CGA thought the best approach was to baseline the program. New system, new players, new everything. Lots of board geniuses now crying folly about that, but mostly after the fact when the product on the field cratered because of this approach. Most people thought the program needed an overhaul. Perhaps! it would have made more sense to re purpose as much of the good Riley stuff as possible, stick with the passing game, try to retain players, use the 4-3 etc. And maybe if Anderson didn't agree to that approach seriously look at other candidates. Maybe think about doubling back to Riley after he bolted and ask him who would be good to hand off the program to. Who would that have been? Would it have been wholly successful? Partially successful? Doesn't matter now. Maybe the ship will right itself with the current coaches and plays etc. Or maybe GA's only legacy will be that he flatlined the program. Actually there were PLENTY of angst about El Dio, I mean thread after thread after thread. So plenty of us "board geniuses" have been banging away for 3 seasons, although in the first year we typically ended our posts with something like, "well he has been successful in the past" or "I trust he knows what he is doing". Of course I have to mention that there was a very vocal minority that clapped their hands in GLEE that he was tearing down what Riley built because they saw the program as a soft, coddling, predictable system that should be torn apart. If you want so REAL Monday morning QBing, I think 2 things, one in his control and one not have put him here. First, Sitake taking the BYU job. Second, running off all the QB's that could throw a 10 yard out that first season. If Sitake stays and we have a bunch of veteran accuate QBs running a offensive plan that EVERYONE has been working at for 3 years, this isn't such a mess. I mean they might be still 1-2 but not the blowout losses. Sitake was asked to coordinate a defense that he had never run before. Why in the hell would a rational person spend all of the money that CGA threw on a flight risk like Sitake and then ask Sitake to try and reinvent the wheel? If he wanted to run a 3-4, he should have hired someone who knew what the hell he was doing. He did about the same thing to Baldwin. He hired someone who has had success in the past not running spread option and then asked him to run spread option. It was like he hired Michael Phelps and told him to run a 100 and hired Usain Bolt and told him to pole vault. Sitake leaving after one year is entirely on CGA. In fact, this is all on CGA. Nothing that was done the first year was a good decision. And CGA has been trying to dig his way out from that hole ever since. CGA is Dave Kragthorpe or Jerry Pettibone. He had success at a small program and has now risen above the level of his own incompetence. He needs a hand-to-God OC and he needs to ditch the 3-4. What is currently happening is not working. Any momentum he had at the end of last year was squandered by chasing off McMaryion.
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Post by bennyorange on Sept 15, 2017 17:02:22 GMT -8
Here Here to that Wilky !!
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Post by gobeavs92 on Sept 15, 2017 19:31:50 GMT -8
Andersen needs to show confidence in his choices of asst. coaches. Right now, it seems like he's just calling in randoms and then critiquing! How about you critique the process of the hire and only hire someone if they're exactly what you want?! If not, don't hire them. As I have said before, I think there are too many hands in the pot; "run game coordinator", "pass game coordinator", I don't even know what the eff that means?! Does that clear the "O" coordinator bc you have some GA (grad Assist.) helping or what? Hold somebody accountable for Eff sake!
Go Beavs!
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Sept 15, 2017 21:53:23 GMT -8
Andersen needs to show confidence in his choices of asst. coaches. Right now, it seems like he's just calling in randoms and then critiquing! How about you critique the process of the hire and only hire someone if they're exactly what you want?! If not, don't hire them. As I have said before, I think there are too many hands in the pot; "run game coordinator", "pass game coordinator", I don't even know what the eff that means?! Does that clear the "O" coordinator bc you have some GA (grad Assist.) helping or what? Hold somebody accountable for Eff sake! Go Beavs! It seems to me he hired exactly what he wanted- friends from the past. Now some of those guys actually had pretty decent success the years before they came here, but apparently were then asked to change what they did that succeeded. If he was dead set on a option offense and a 3-4 defense he should have hired the best coaches he could find that ran those rather than asking friends who were already good at something to try something new... he did them no favor.
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