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Post by geezerbeaver on Sept 12, 2017 7:11:40 GMT -8
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Post by nforkbeav on Sept 12, 2017 8:33:26 GMT -8
Criticizing performance is not coaching and does not build a more knowledgeable and confident athlete.
Instruction coupled with clear CONSISTENT communication, praise, and correction when necessary does.
First the athlete must be taught what is expected of them. They may not get a new assignment at first, that's why we have these things called practice. When they aren't getting it, a good coach will recognize it and offer a correction by explaining/showing what they're doing is different than what needs to be done. A good coach will also assess how he can best teach his players, the best way to reach them, visually versus verbally for example, and develop drills that hone in on a desired outcome with laser like precision.
Then once a player demonstrates he's got it, you celebrate that moment with him, because that's a growing moment, that's a lesson learned, that's a step towards a smarter more confident player, and that's a great opportunity to make a player feel good about the work he just put in. It also cements trust because he recognizes who just helped him grow. That's why good coaches have players who play extremely hard for them.
A few years back when Utah's receiver dropped the ball just short of the endzone against the ducks in a game Utah was spoiling to win if he had not dropped the ball, Whittingham was asked after the game about that play.
He had a great answer, he said(going off my memory here) We've gone over that in practice, we've coached players to hand the ball to the ref, but until a player is doing what he's been coached to do in a game, then he hasn't actually learned it. If he hasn't learned it, then we haven't taught it well enough and that's on the coaches not the players.
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Post by nabeav on Sept 12, 2017 9:49:05 GMT -8
This is an insane argument to have. If we were winning, everyone would be saying "See? Riley and his 'build 'em up' strategy was the problem. They needed some tough love. If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen! This is big boy football y'all!"
There's no "right way" to coach. I've seen effective coaches that yell and scream and demand perfection, and I've seen effective coaches that put an arm around a kid and talk quietly to him before patting him on butt and saying "go get 'em."
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Post by baseba1111 on Sept 12, 2017 10:08:39 GMT -8
This is an insane argument to have. If we were winning, everyone would be saying "See? Riley and his 'build 'em up' strategy was the problem. They needed some tough love. If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen! This is big boy football y'all!" There's no "right way" to coach. I've seen effective coaches that yell and scream and demand perfection, and I've seen effective coaches that put an arm around a kid and talk quietly to him before patting him on butt and saying "go get 'em." Completely disagree... there is definitely a "right way". Every coach has their own way of implementing his "style", but every coach has to have an entire spectrum of the tricks of the trade. It is up to the coach/staff to know which kids respond to what type of personal interaction. Coaching is teaching... not everyone learns the same way and in the same amount of repetitions... nor responds to failures the same as they are learning. It's your job to know each of your players as a HC and staff. The worst supervisors, bosses, and coaches are those that treat everyone the same. Life is not black and white, it is full of grey. If a coach is a "one trick pony" he's probably a failure or has capable staff members who fill the other roles a mentor should have. The other aspect of a coach/teacher is to not praise or berate without just cause. False praise is almost as damaging as being overly critical. And, typically never criticize harshly as a group. Nothing divides a team (or a group of employees) than generalized criticism. It will not apply to all and will degrade their belief in their support system. It's not about players "feelings", it's about feeling respect... mutual respect. Kids do not disdain discipline, in fact they crave it if seen as consistent and in line with the "process" they've been told to believe in. Players need to see their coaches 'walking their talk'. I fear from the numerous reports it's not happening.
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Post by nabeav on Sept 12, 2017 10:32:53 GMT -8
Oh I'd agree there's definitely a wrong way. But to say there's only one "right way" is a bit narrow-minded. It seemed like the original post was basically saying every coach needed to coach like John Wooden to be successful. For every Wooden, there's a Knight.
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Post by nforkbeav on Sept 12, 2017 10:40:57 GMT -8
This is an insane argument to have. If we were winning, everyone would be saying "See? Riley and his 'build 'em up' strategy was the problem. They needed some tough love. If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen! This is big boy football y'all!" There's no "right way" to coach. I've seen effective coaches that yell and scream and demand perfection, and I've seen effective coaches that put an arm around a kid and talk quietly to him before patting him on butt and saying "go get 'em." Completely disagree... there is definitely a "right way". Every coach has their own way of implementing his "style", but every coach has to have an entire spectrum of the tricks of the trade. It is up to the coach/staff to know which kids respond to what type of personal interaction. Coaching is teaching... not everyone learns the same way and in the same amount of repetitions... nor responds to failures the same as they are learning. It's your job to know each of your players as a HC and staff. The worst supervisors, bosses, and coaches are those that treat everyone the same. Life is not black and white, it is full of grey. If a coach is a "one trick pony" he's probably a failure or has capable staff members who fill the other roles a mentor should have. The other aspect of a coach/teacher is to not praise or berate without just cause, and typically never as a group. Nothing divides a team (or a group of employees) than generalized criticism. It will not apply to all and will degrade their belief in their support system. It's not about players "feelings", it's about feeling respect... mutual respect. Kids do not disdain discipline, in fact they crave it if seen as consistent and in line with the "process" they've been told to believe in. Players need to see their coaches 'walking their talk'. I fear from the numerous reports it's not happening. +1 You nailed it. Styles/delivery methods might be diverse, but the fundamental principles of teaching, developing, and growing a better football players aren't. In fact part of why Petersen is such a good coach is his background in psychology and his understanding of how the brain works. That knowledge has allowed him to refine ways to teach the game to his players as efficiently as possible. For those people who mistakenly hold the view it takes a yeller and screamer to be demanding and lead a hard nose football team. Look around and give some example. Where/who are these fearsome, big, bad, demanding, yellers, who are having so much college success? The most physical football team in the P12 the past 10 years or so is coached by a calm, quiet, yet demanding teacher. Then there's UW who could take that distinction away. Peterson is demanding, he's a perfectionist in teaching the game to his players, but he's not a frothing at the mouth drill sergeant.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 12, 2017 10:53:57 GMT -8
This is an insane argument to have. If we were winning, everyone would be saying "See? Riley and his 'build 'em up' strategy was the problem. They needed some tough love. If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen! This is big boy football y'all!" There's no "right way" to coach. I've seen effective coaches that yell and scream and demand perfection, and I've seen effective coaches that put an arm around a kid and talk quietly to him before patting him on butt and saying "go get 'em." Completely disagree... there is definitely a "right way". Every coach has their own way of implementing his "style", but every coach has to have an entire spectrum of the tricks of the trade. It is up to the coach/staff to know which kids respond to what type of personal interaction. Coaching is teaching... not everyone learns the same way and in the same amount of repetitions... nor responds to failures the same as they are learning. It's your job to know each of your players as a HC and staff. The worst supervisors, bosses, and coaches are those that treat everyone the same. Life is not black and white, it is full of grey. If a coach is a "one trick pony" he's probably a failure or has capable staff members who fill the other roles a mentor should have. The other aspect of a coach/teacher is to not praise or berate without just cause. False praise is almost as damaging as being overly critical. And, typically never criticize harshly as a group. Nothing divides a team (or a group of employees) than generalized criticism. It will not apply to all and will degrade their belief in their support system. It's not about players "feelings", it's about feeling respect... mutual respect. Kids do not disdain discipline, in fact they crave it if seen as consistent and in line with the "process" they've been told to believe in. Players need to see their coaches 'walking their talk'. I fear from the numerous reports it's not happening. The most ineffective leaders and terrible bosses are the ones that expect everybody acts like them and thinks like them.
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Post by korculabeav on Sept 12, 2017 12:49:17 GMT -8
Criticizing performance is not coaching and does not build a more knowledgeable and confident athlete. Instruction coupled with clear CONSISTENT communication, praise, and correction when necessary does. First the athlete must be taught what is expected of them. They may not get a new assignment at first, that's why we have these things called practice. When they aren't getting it, a good coach will recognize it and offer a correction by explaining/showing what they're doing is different than what needs to be done. A good coach will also assess how he can best teach his players, the best way to reach them, visually versus verbally for example, and develop drills that hone in on a desired outcome with laser like precision. Then once a player demonstrates he's got it, you celebrate that moment with him, because that's a growing moment, that's a lesson learned, that's a step towards a smarter more confident player, and that's a great opportunity to make a player feel good about the work he just put in. It also cements trust because he recognizes who just helped him grow. That's why good coaches have players who play extremely hard for them. A few years back when Utah's receiver dropped the ball just short of the endzone against the ducks in a game Utah was spoiling to win if he had not dropped the ball, Whittingham was asked after the game about that play. He had a great answer, he said(going off my memory here) We've gone over that in practice, we've coached players to hand the ball to the ref, but until a player is doing what he's been coached to do in a game, then he hasn't actually learned it. If he hasn't learned it, then we haven't taught it well enough and that's on the coaches not the players. Criticizing performance is a valid tact if done properly, positively and with a teaching moment on how to correct the behavior. Case and point, I would hope the coaching staff takes the entire OL, show them film of how the Gopher d-line was getting around lousy blocking to get into the backfield and harass Luton all game. Visully showing those guys how they were failing Luton and instructing them what they need to be doing better is a proper approach.
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Post by nforkbeav on Sept 12, 2017 13:14:24 GMT -8
Criticizing performance is not coaching and does not build a more knowledgeable and confident athlete. Instruction coupled with clear CONSISTENT communication, praise, and correction when necessary does. First the athlete must be taught what is expected of them. They may not get a new assignment at first, that's why we have these things called practice. When they aren't getting it, a good coach will recognize it and offer a correction by explaining/showing what they're doing is different than what needs to be done. A good coach will also assess how he can best teach his players, the best way to reach them, visually versus verbally for example, and develop drills that hone in on a desired outcome with laser like precision. Then once a player demonstrates he's got it, you celebrate that moment with him, because that's a growing moment, that's a lesson learned, that's a step towards a smarter more confident player, and that's a great opportunity to make a player feel good about the work he just put in. It also cements trust because he recognizes who just helped him grow. That's why good coaches have players who play extremely hard for them. A few years back when Utah's receiver dropped the ball just short of the endzone against the ducks in a game Utah was spoiling to win if he had not dropped the ball, Whittingham was asked after the game about that play. He had a great answer, he said(going off my memory here) We've gone over that in practice, we've coached players to hand the ball to the ref, but until a player is doing what he's been coached to do in a game, then he hasn't actually learned it. If he hasn't learned it, then we haven't taught it well enough and that's on the coaches not the players. Criticizing performance is a valid tact if done properly, positively and with a teaching moment on how to correct the behavior. Case and point, I would hope the coaching staff takes the entire OL, show them film of how the Gopher d-line was getting around lousy blocking to get into the backfield and harass Luton all game. Visully showing those guys how they were failing Luton and instructing them what they need to be doing better is a proper approach. I think we agree, but I was going by the literal definition of what a criticism is. Criticism in and of itself is negative, usually very personal, and generally insulting, therefore not a good tactic to start a learning experience. Assessing strengths and weaknesses in performance is a must for improvement in any walk of life. How you address weaknesses to a team or player is extremely important. Leading with a criticism immediately puts people on the defensive and creates an us vs them divide between player and coach which in turn leads to any following positive message landing on deaf ears. The art of coaching, and not all are as capable of this as others, is finding a way to critique performance that gets the message across in a nonabrasive way. In other words you need to be able to tell a player his performance sucked without him thinking you're saying HE sucks. Not easy to do. The other part of it using your example above is, did the O line do what they'd been coached to do and it didn't work? If they did what they were told to do and it wasn't working then their confidence in the people telling them what to do is going to be severally eroded going forward.
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Post by ee1990 on Sept 12, 2017 14:14:24 GMT -8
I think the saying goes, and I think it's a Bo Schembecklerism, when your team is winning, be hard on them. Don't let them take it for granted or lose their edge. When your team is losing, nurture them.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 12, 2017 14:31:00 GMT -8
Diana Baumrind was a developmental psychologist in the 1960s who is credited with doing the most work around parenting styles. She popularized the key parenting styles of Authoritarian, Permissive, and Authoritative. Basically, the notion of "too hard", "too soft", and "just right". Other child development/family studies researchers expanded on Baumrinds work, to include basically 4 key modes of parenting styles, which slightly expand her original work: High affection/High authority, Low affection/Low authority, High Affection/Low authority, and low affection/high authority. which roughly translates to authoritative, uninvolved, permissive, and authoritarian. Studies have concluded that parents that show "high/high" have kids that achieve the better outcomes in longitudinal studies. In other words, parents that show affection, love and support to their children, but also have strict rules and expectations raise the better kids. who'da thunk it? I do not think it is a stretch to believe the same applies to coaching. It is no wonder across the spectrum "player's coaches" that demonstrate a strong sense of control and low tolerance of mistakes and general tomfollery percolate to the top of the most successful list.
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