bill82
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Post by bill82 on Jul 25, 2017 4:28:20 GMT -8
There is no evidence that he refused to bring in blacks, and he brought in one walk-on from the track team. As AD, he allowed Valenti to recruit blacks. There is no record of him uttering a single racist word. I know this is a huge reach here . . . but maybe he didn't see much profit in being a 60-year white guy trying to recruit blacks to a lily-white farm town two hours from the nearest significant black community. It was a different era then. Recruiting wasn't national, there wasn't video and AAU showcases, and Gill's recruiting budget wouldn't cover what Louisville spends on strippers in a weekend. While I agree with the point you're making, I couldn't help but be distracted by your use of the term "blacks". I know these things are generational and it has changed over the years but that's a term that is outdated and offensive. Black can be used as an adjective but shouldn't be used as a noun. If you want to play it safe, just stick to African American. I'm in no way insinuating you're racist but referring to a group as "blacks" is seen as racist nowadays. I'm not typing this to scold you but rather as a psa, kind of a "heads up". Racism or prejudice isn't something that I want associated with OSU students, faculty, administration or fans. FYI: A style guide from the National Association of Black Journalists says, "In news copy, aim to use black as an adjective, not a noun. Also, when describing a group, use black people instead of just blacks. In headlines, blacks, however, is acceptable." At the [New York] Times, "We don't have a guideline one way or the other on noun versus adjective," spokeswoman Eileen Murphy told Journal-isms.... At the Associated Press, "The AP Stylebook entries on 'African-American' and 'black' permit noun usages of black," spokesman Jack Stokes said. "The individual's preference is always a factor." However, at The Washington Post and Los Angeles Times, style books prefer that "black" remain an adjective... The Post guide says, "African American, when appropriate, is preferable to black in the noun form: An African American and African Americans read much better than A black and blacks."
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Jul 25, 2017 6:40:57 GMT -8
Benton Hall was named in honor of the citizens of Benton County, who donated money to make sure the former Corvallis College became the land-grant school now known as Oregon State University. It is not named after the Missouri senator.
Arnold was a Confederate soldier; 90% of Confederate soldiers were not slave owners, they fought for their state. Not sure what his rank was; if he was an enlisted man, he probably didn't own slaves.
Just as an aside, former OSU president John Bloss was a sergeant in the 27th Indiana Volunteers. He received the lost copy of Lee's Special Order 191 directly from three of his soldiers, who found them in a vacated Confederate camp. The discovery of those lost orders led to the battle of Antietam, the deadliest single day in the Civil War. Bloss Hall is named in his honor; his son was OSU's first head football coach.
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Post by bennyorange on Jul 25, 2017 8:25:42 GMT -8
Absolutely ridiculous. in 80 years somebody will want a building renamed because the person whose name is on the building ate red meat or smoked cigarettes. Much like the renaming of school buildings in the Centennial school district because the family name of lynch bothers a few people, I'm really tired of this kind of BS but then again I've become an old curmudgeon. Holy crap people grow some skin - where will the level of PC come to rest before damn near anything is considered offensive or threatening? Thank goodness I grew up when I did as our kids heads are stuffed full of ridiculous prejudices manufactured out of practically thin air these days.
I know if all my dirty laundry was aired they wouldn't name a fire hydrant after me but I'm far from despicable. I think that's true of most people and trying someone on something that occurred centuries ago when societal norms were completely different would exclude practically everyone born before 1950. Give it a freaking rest.
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Post by hawksea on Jul 25, 2017 8:31:58 GMT -8
There is no evidence that he refused to bring in blacks, and he brought in one walk-on from the track team. As AD, he allowed Valenti to recruit blacks. There is no record of him uttering a single racist word. I know this is a huge reach here . . . but maybe he didn't see much profit in being a 60-year white guy trying to recruit blacks to a lily-white farm town two hours from the nearest significant black community. It was a different era then. Recruiting wasn't national, there wasn't video and AAU showcases, and Gill's recruiting budget wouldn't cover what Louisville spends on strippers in a weekend. While I agree with the point you're making, I couldn't help but be distracted by your use of the term "blacks". I know these things are generational and it has changed over the years but that's a term that is outdated and offensive. Black can be used as an adjective but shouldn't be used as a noun. If you want to play it safe, just stick to African American. I'm in no way insinuating you're racist but referring to a group as "blacks" is seen as racist nowadays. I'm not typing this to scold you but rather as a psa, kind of a "heads up". Racism or prejudice isn't something that I want associated with OSU students, faculty, administration or fans. I have multiple friends who are African-American, and they all say that the term black is fine to use. That may be offensive from some people, but I do not know any blacks who consider it offensive.
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Post by fumblerooski on Jul 25, 2017 9:36:03 GMT -8
While I agree with the point you're making, I couldn't help but be distracted by your use of the term "blacks". I know these things are generational and it has changed over the years but that's a term that is outdated and offensive. Black can be used as an adjective but shouldn't be used as a noun. If you want to play it safe, just stick to African American. I'm in no way insinuating you're racist but referring to a group as "blacks" is seen as racist nowadays. I'm not typing this to scold you but rather as a psa, kind of a "heads up". Racism or prejudice isn't something that I want associated with OSU students, faculty, administration or fans. I have multiple friends who are African-American, and they all say that the term black is fine to use. That may be offensive from some people, but I do not know any blacks who consider it offensive. There is a difference between the term "black" and the term "blacks", which is exactly what I said. It's a debate of noun vs adjective and in the current climate we live in, referring to someone as black is fine but referring to someone as a black is not.
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Post by baseba1111 on Jul 25, 2017 9:48:08 GMT -8
I have multiple friends who are African-American, and they all say that the term black is fine to use. That may be offensive from some people, but I do not know any blacks who consider it offensive. There is a difference between the term "black" and the term "blacks", which is exactly what I said. It's a debate of noun vs adjective and in the current climate we live in, referring to someone as black is fine but referring to someone as a black is not. Stop... you're wrong to keep insisting you have the answers! There is no hard and fast rule. Noun, adjective, pronoun, etc... it completely depends on the company you keep, the situation, the environment, and the relationships you have. Do you work for a govt. agency??? There's is just some things you can't legislate... if you did not know, speech is near the top of that list.
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93beav
Sophomore
Posts: 2,121
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Post by 93beav on Jul 25, 2017 10:33:26 GMT -8
So apparently if you've ever held an inappropriate opinion at any point of your life your name will be removed from the history books except to criticize you for what you might have once believed.
I feel very sorry for the kids using the internet these days. Opinions preserved for all times even if they end up just peons.
I think sometimes (like the gray uniform comment) people are just winding themselves up to see something. Others I'm sure are legitimate. But it just seems like there is so...much...energy there that could be directed towards something positive. Why the hell can't we ever build towards the positive versus trying to label and accuse everyone?
So, no, leave Gill the way it is.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 25, 2017 10:42:06 GMT -8
We need to put an end to the inane pursuits of uninformed social justice warriors that have nothing but spare time, lots of unbalanced emotion, and little rational thought. We have serious social issues in our society. We have vast inequities, we have systematic oppression, we have pervasive racism all over... Lets deal with that. That is important. We have little time to be splitting hairs over a coach, whom actually was the first coach to allow a black player on his team in Oregon State history... was actually some in the closet racist. The fact of the matter is for what it represents, Slats Gill was a tremendous player, a tremendous coach, tremendous AD and, a person in the Naismith Hall of Fame is a fantastic naming choice for a venue of Oregon State. Venues should be named for things iconic to the university. Not for people that just donated a bunch of money. Slats Gill, by all measures, was iconic to OSU, and basketball in general. When you start bringing up renaming Gill, you know the people you are dealing with are clueless.
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Post by bennyskid on Jul 25, 2017 10:47:40 GMT -8
This argument about the word "black" demonstrates perfectly why all this hypersensitivity is *terrible* for race relations.
We could be having a meaningful discussion about how the OSU basketball team navigated through the tumult of the civil rights era. We could be talking about whether it is enough that Coach Gill had no animosity against blacks - ahem - black athletes, or whether whites - ahem - white persons in positions of leadership have an absolute obligation to take positive action. We could be talking about whether we should apply modern sensibilities when evaluating the character of people in a different time. We could be discussing the role of sports in the civil rights movement, or the realities of being a black on the OSU campus, than and now.
But that would require everyone putting on a thicker skin, if just for a little while.
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Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on Jul 25, 2017 11:44:39 GMT -8
There are 12 Presidents who owned slaves. Perhaps everything named after them should be removed or renamed: streets, buildings, cities, counties, universities, images on currency, this nation's capital, the state directly to our north, etc.
The PC movement is a bit carried away at times.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Jul 25, 2017 11:53:02 GMT -8
Benton Hall was named in honor of the citizens of Benton County, who donated money to make sure the former Corvallis College became the land-grant school now known as Oregon State University. It is not named after the Missouri senator. Arnold was a Confederate soldier; 90% of Confederate soldiers were not slave owners, they fought for their state. Not sure what his rank was; if he was an enlisted man, he probably didn't own slaves. Just as an aside, former OSU president John Bloss was a sergeant in the 27th Indiana Volunteers. He received the lost copy of Lee's Special Order 191 directly from three of his soldiers, who found them in a vacated Confederate camp. The discovery of those lost orders led to the battle of Antietam, the deadliest single day in the Civil War. Bloss Hall is named in his honor; his son was OSU's first head football coach. This is some great stuff! Special Order 191 allowed McClellan to attack Lee at Antietam and stop Lee's Maryland invasion. (McClellan was unable to destroy the Army of Norther Virginia, but he forced Lee back across the Potomac.) Corporal Barton W. Mitchell found the Order and gave it to Sergeant Bloss, who gave it to Captain Peter Kopp, who gave it to Colonel Silas Colgrove who authenticated the Order. Without Bloss, Lee very well could have defeated the Army of the Potomac and won the War. I did not realize that Bloss was involved with that. That is huge! Benton Hall is named after Benton County, but Benton County is named after the Missouri Senator, because of his advocacy for Manifest Destiny and westward expansion. Early in his life, Benton was pro-slavery, but he became anti-slavery later in life. I believe that Arnold was an enlisted man. He was discharged after three months. Arnold chose orange as the color for the university. Jesse Orosco, who appears to be one of the ringleaders behind the push to rename everything, indicates that Arnold chose orange, because of his opposition to Roman Catholicism.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 25, 2017 12:27:01 GMT -8
Benton Hall was named in honor of the citizens of Benton County, who donated money to make sure the former Corvallis College became the land-grant school now known as Oregon State University. It is not named after the Missouri senator. Arnold was a Confederate soldier; 90% of Confederate soldiers were not slave owners, they fought for their state. Not sure what his rank was; if he was an enlisted man, he probably didn't own slaves. Just as an aside, former OSU president John Bloss was a sergeant in the 27th Indiana Volunteers. He received the lost copy of Lee's Special Order 191 directly from three of his soldiers, who found them in a vacated Confederate camp. The discovery of those lost orders led to the battle of Antietam, the deadliest single day in the Civil War. Bloss Hall is named in his honor; his son was OSU's first head football coach. This is some great stuff! Special Order 191 allowed McClellan to attack Lee at Antietam and stop Lee's Maryland invasion. (McClellan was unable to destroy the Army of Norther Virginia, but he forced Lee back across the Potomac.) Corporal Barton W. Mitchell found the Order and gave it to Sergeant Bloss, who gave it to Captain Peter Kopp, who gave it to Colonel Silas Colgrove who authenticated the Order. Without Bloss, Lee very well could have defeated the Army of the Potomac and won the War. I did not realize that Bloss was involved with that. That is huge! Benton Hall is named after Benton County, but Benton County is named after the Missouri Senator, because of his advocacy for Manifest Destiny and westward expansion. Early in his life, Benton was pro-slavery, but he became anti-slavery later in life. I believe that Arnold was an enlisted man. He was discharged after three months. Arnold chose orange as the color for the university. Jesse Orosco, who appears to be one of the ringleaders behind the push to rename everything, indicates that Arnold chose orange, because of his opposition to Roman Catholicism. Where OSU went really wrong is putting a Philosophy professor in charge of this. We have a history department for a reason. People that have the mental capacity to judge actions in the context of their time. People with the capacity to do unbiased research. when Orosco says "I have students that feel excluded because these building are named for people that would of allowed non-white students" you know he is talking out of his ass. Oh really? you know Arnold wouldn't of allowed a non-white student? you asked him? you have his diary that says explicitly OSU should not allow non-whites ever? you saw documents where he tried to put that in OSU's charter? a better question is, how many non-white students do you have in which you convinced them that these people would of excluded them? Weak sauce professor. We expect better from our educators.
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Post by atownbeaver on Jul 25, 2017 12:35:03 GMT -8
There are 12 Presidents who owned slaves. Perhaps everything named after them should be removed or renamed: streets, buildings, cities, counties, universities, images on currency, this nation's capital, the state directly to our north, etc. The PC movement is a bit carried away at times. It is a real slippery slope to judge people of the past on the standards of today. It is unethical and disingenuous. That is not making excuses of slave ownership, which I feel even in the time, most people didn't think it was all that great of a thing... But more in terms of what was considered socially acceptable 100 years ago, 200 years ago is not what is considered okay today.
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Post by believeinthebeavs on Jul 25, 2017 13:10:32 GMT -8
I seriously can't believe that people are wasting their time, and our money, on this crap. I haven't heard a single valid reason to change the names on those buildings. They were all a product of their times. It was a different world back then. By those terms we shouldn't be a state at all, ever hear of the exclusion laws that Oregon enacted in the mid 1800's. They weren't officially repealed until 1926. In 1951 Oregon finally repealed the law against interracial marriages. It only took us 89 years to ratify the 15th amendment.
When Camp Adair was in service most of the men were allowed to take their leave in Corvallis, Monmouth, Albany, even Salem. But there were one group of men that were bused to Portland for their leave, want to guess who???
I would rather see the buildings named after people of historical significance to the school that to sell out and name them after corporate sponsors.
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Post by beavaristotle on Jul 25, 2017 13:28:15 GMT -8
MONEY TALKS ! and its a language the administration understands very well. we skipped last years donation to the school and wrote them a letter regarding their sanctuary campus policy. if enough of the right people call BULL S*IT on this rewriting of history , it will go away
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