|
Post by fumblerooski on Dec 4, 2015 11:40:25 GMT -8
Not one beaver made the list. As someone born in the late 80's, I can only recall about 2 decades worth of OSU football but I'm surprised that neither Terry Baker or Mike Hass made the list.
Quarterbacks
John Elway, Stanford
Marcus Mariota, Oregon
Jim Plunkett, Stanford
Andrew Luck, Stanford
Matt Leinart, USC
Running Backs
Marcus Allen, USC
OJ Simpson, USC
Charles White, USC
Reggie Bush, USC
Mike Garrett, USC
Wide Receivers
Keyshawn Johnson, USC
Lynn Swann, USC
Marqise Lee, USC
JJ Stokes, UCLA
Ken Margerum, Stanford
Tight Ends
Tony Gonzalez, California
Charles Young, USC
Offensive Line
Jonathan Ogden, UCLA
Ron Yary, USC
Tony Boselli,USC
Anthony Munoz, USC
Lincoln Kennedy, Washington
Brad Budde, USC
Randall McDaniel, Arizona State
Defensive Ends
Tedy Bruschi, Arizona
Terrell Suggs, Arizona State
Willie McGinest, USC
Andre Carter, California
Jim Jeffcoat, Arizona State
Defensive Tackles
Steve Emtman, Washington
Haloti Ngata, Oregon
Rob Waldrop, Arizona
Leonard Williams, USC
Ed White, California
Linebackers
Junior Seau, USC
Jerry Robinson, UCLA
Ricky Hunley, Arizona
Richard Wood, USC
Chris Claiborne, USC
Cornerbacks
Joey Browner, USC
Mel Renfro, Oregon
Chris McAlister, Arizona
Antoine Cason, Arizona
Safeties
Ronnie Lott, USC
Kenny Easley, UCLA
Troy Polamalu, USC
Mark Carrier, USC
Kicker
Jason Hanson, Washington State
Punter
Tom Hackett, Utah
Returner
Reggie Bush, USC
Coach
John McKay, USC
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2015 11:51:34 GMT -8
I'm going to say you could do some deep digging and maybe find a few that "could" fit here... but hard to argue ANY of these should be left off. Although a true Beaver, we have no one that beats out any of those players... not a QB, not at WR... Heisman/Baker different era, different type of QB than those listed. But no one in there right mind would take TB over any of those players to QB their team.
I attended USC as undergrad... wish I would have kept the list we put together, but we had a USC vs the rest of the league all-star game. Still think SC wins 7 or 10 including the last 10-20 years...
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Dec 4, 2015 12:08:02 GMT -8
I understand it was a different era and all that, but just LOOK at Mike Hass' stats vs. Lynn Swann:
Swann: 96 Rec. 1562 Yds. 11 TDs (Also had 200 yards rushing)
Hass: 90 Rec. 1532 YDs. 6 TDs (Also had 18 yards rushing)
So yeah, maybe Swann was a little better.
NOT SO FAST MY FRIEND
Swann's stats are for his career. Hass' stats are for his senior year alone. Mike's career totals:
220 Rec. 3924 Yds. 20 TDs
The real tragedy is that Hass wasn't even a finalist for this. All time, he's 13th in the conference in receptions (Lee is the only one who had more), 3rd in Receiving yards (ahead of everyone that made the all century team), 12th all time in yards per reception (17.84, Keyshawn next closest at 32nd, 16.64). Touchdowns is the one area he's behind the other guys - Hass had 20, Jarrett (also not a finalist!) had 41, Margerum had 30, Lee had 29, Stokes had 28.
To me, there's no logical reason Mike Hass isn't considered one of the five greatest receivers in the history of this league. He was quite literally the only offensive weapon we had his junio year (Dwight Wright was our RB and the other WRs were Marcel Love, Anthony Wheat Brown, George Gillett, and Josh Hawkins), and people still couldn't stop him.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2015 12:27:13 GMT -8
I know it's "supposed" to based on college only, but of course you know what Swan did afterward and SC passed like only threw the ball 750 times in the 3 year span... LOVE MH, but he is no Swan.
Heck, in terms of the list and the type of player there Cooks would fit over KM... but since I missed the Stanford alum... Hass belongs before him too!
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2015 12:39:53 GMT -8
And... you seem to have left out...
We tossed it over 1500 times while Hass was playing... had SJ one year and YB the last year Hass was around... So stats can be way misleading.
But we've had two better than Margerum... IMHO
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Dec 4, 2015 12:55:11 GMT -8
I don't care how many times we threw it - Hass caught everything. He wasn't the fastest, tallest, or strongest out there, but he knew how to get open and how to catch the ball. In two games vs. Boise St, he has 23 catches for 471 yards and 4 TDS, and probably three or four unsportsmanlike conduct penalties.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2015 13:25:51 GMT -8
Actually he did NOT catch everything, he had key drops like every other receiver. And it DOES matter how much a team throws and the other talent around him in the receiving corp. Ya think you put Lynn Swann with our receivers and our QBs throwing it over 1500 times that Swann's #'s are incredibly higher? Wear the glasses... love the player for who he was, and he was all time Beaver great. But, IMHO not even the greatest Beaver... Not sure many people on this board take Hass over Cooks?! You can absolutely love the player, but it doesn't make him necessarily worthy of certain recognition.
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Dec 4, 2015 13:43:37 GMT -8
I'm not talking about pro potential, what they "could have" done in a different era - I'm just talking about production on the field. Had Cooks stayed for a fourth season, there's no argument...he's the best reciever in school history hands down. But he didn't. Same reason I'd take Simonton over Jackson in a discussion of greatest running back in school history as well.
|
|
|
Post by atownbeaver on Dec 4, 2015 13:43:49 GMT -8
And... you seem to have left out... We tossed it over 1500 times while Hass was playing... had SJ one year and YB the last year Hass was around... So stats can be way misleading. But we've had two better than Margerum... IMHO We tossed it 1,355 times in those years actually. Marquise Lee made the list... and he wasn't he surrounded by decent RBs and they didn't throw the ball around the yard? He also played opposite of Robert Woods and had Matt Barkley throwing the ball to him (and he did attempt 1,195 passes in his Lee years). Brandin Cooks and Mike Hass have strong arguments to be on that list. Hass is a snub in my opinion. Lee in his career caught 248 balls for 3,655 yards and 29 TDs Cooks had 226 balls for 3,272 yards and 24 TDs and never had the running game support Lee had Hass had 220 balls for 3,924 yard and 20 TDs.
|
|
|
Post by fumblerooski on Dec 4, 2015 14:26:01 GMT -8
I can absolutely argue that Marqise Lee be left off this list. Lee had one of the best seasons in conference history as a sophomore but only came up with 57 receptions and 791 yards as a junior. that's over 11 games. And that was on a team that tossed it around a lot and had several weapons other than him. If I'm building a team from scratch I'd probably take Lee but if you're objectively comparing the college career of these two guys then Hass could and should be considered the better college player.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2015 14:57:46 GMT -8
"We tossed it 1,355 times in those years actually. "
>2003-2005 we actually were 828-1524/11232 yds in the Hass years... I believe (7) guys tossed at least one pass. 274/533 ... 287/532 ... 267/459 >SJ and DW totaled almost 2000 on the ground >DW and Cole 1000 >Bernard 1321
Stats abound... but if you pick Hass above Lee, Swann, or Cooks (the biggest snub for OSU) I want to play you in fantasy league. LOL
Hass > Margerum
|
|
|
Post by nabeav on Dec 4, 2015 16:09:38 GMT -8
I'll play: Assuming a standard fantasy league with 10 yds=1pt and TDs=6pts Hass 2003: 44 rec, 1013 yds, 7 TD = 143.3 points Hass 2004: 86 rec, 1379 yds, 7 TD = 179.9 points Hass 2005: 90 rec, 1532 yds, 6 TD = 189.2 points Hass Total: 220 rec, 3924 yds, 20 TD = 512.4 points, 170.8 average (Adding in rushing stats gives him 514.2 points, 171.4 average) Cooks 2011: 31 rec, 391 yds, 3 TD = 57.1 points Cooks 2012: 67 rec, 1151 yds, 5 TD = 145.1 points Cooks 2013: 128 rec, 1730 yds, 16 TD = 269 points Cooks Total: 226 rec, 3272 yds, 24 TD = 471.2 points, 157.1 average (adding rushing stats gives him 517.2 points, 172.4 average) Lee 2011: 73 rec, 1143 yds, 11 TD = 180.3 points Lee 2012: 118 rec, 1721 yds, 14 TD = 256.1 points Lee 2013: 57 rec, 791 yds, 4 TD = 103.1 points Lee Total: 248 rec, 3655 yds, 29 TD = 539.5 points, 179.8 average (adding rushing stats gives him 554.1 poins, 184.7 average) Swann 1971: 27 rec, 305 yds, 2 TD = 42.5 points Swann 1972: 27 rec, 543 yds, 3 TD = 72.3 points Swann 1973: 42 rec, 714 yds, 6 TD = 107.4 points Swann Total: 96 rec, 1562 yds, 11 TD = 222.2 points, 74.06 average (adding rushing stats gives him 242.2 points, 80.73 average) Hass was most consistent over his career, Cooks and Lee both had one absolutely monster season, and Swann Per game averages (and both Cooks and Lee played 13 games in their monster seasons, Hass played 11 in his best year) Hass: 36 games, 14.28 ppg Cooks: 38 games, 13.61 ppg Lee: 36 games, 15.39 ppg Swann: 35 games, 6.92 ppg For fun I projected Hass's final stats had he played 13 games like Cooks and Lee in their belitnikoff years: 106 rec, 1810 yds, 7 TDs
|
|
|
Post by beaverstever on Dec 4, 2015 16:26:08 GMT -8
Is the DT really that thin for the conference? I recall Ngata perceived as and underachiever in his college days - he could dominate, but I don't recall him actually doing it very often.
|
|
|
Post by baseba1111 on Dec 4, 2015 23:06:39 GMT -8
I'll play: Assuming a standard fantasy league with 10 yds=1pt and TDs=6pts Hass 2003: 44 rec, 1013 yds, 7 TD = 143.3 points Hass 2004: 86 rec, 1379 yds, 7 TD = 179.9 points Hass 2005: 90 rec, 1532 yds, 6 TD = 189.2 points Hass Total: 220 rec, 3924 yds, 20 TD = 512.4 points, 170.8 average (Adding in rushing stats gives him 514.2 points, 171.4 average) Cooks 2011: 31 rec, 391 yds, 3 TD = 57.1 points Cooks 2012: 67 rec, 1151 yds, 5 TD = 145.1 points Cooks 2013: 128 rec, 1730 yds, 16 TD = 269 points Cooks Total: 226 rec, 3272 yds, 24 TD = 471.2 points, 157.1 average (adding rushing stats gives him 517.2 points, 172.4 average) Lee 2011: 73 rec, 1143 yds, 11 TD = 180.3 points Lee 2012: 118 rec, 1721 yds, 14 TD = 256.1 points Lee 2013: 57 rec, 791 yds, 4 TD = 103.1 points Lee Total: 248 rec, 3655 yds, 29 TD = 539.5 points, 179.8 average (adding rushing stats gives him 554.1 poins, 184.7 average) Swann 1971: 27 rec, 305 yds, 2 TD = 42.5 points Swann 1972: 27 rec, 543 yds, 3 TD = 72.3 points Swann 1973: 42 rec, 714 yds, 6 TD = 107.4 points Swann Total: 96 rec, 1562 yds, 11 TD = 222.2 points, 74.06 average (adding rushing stats gives him 242.2 points, 80.73 average) Hass was most consistent over his career, Cooks and Lee both had one absolutely monster season, and Swann Per game averages (and both Cooks and Lee played 13 games in their monster seasons, Hass played 11 in his best year) Hass: 36 games, 14.28 ppg Cooks: 38 games, 13.61 ppg Lee: 36 games, 15.39 ppg Swann: 35 games, 6.92 ppg For fun I projected Hass's final stats had he played 13 games like Cooks and Lee in their belitnikoff years: 106 rec, 1810 yds, 7 TDs LMAO... lots of work when the reference to fantasy was referring to talent evaluation not point totals! But, if you want to truly compare eras then take Swann's #s and multiply them by about 2.4 to 2.6. Assuming he caught a similar % of his teams completions (almost 30%) that would bring his pass catching opportunities in line with those other offenses. I believe his fantasy# might surprise you. Let alone the fact it's pretty obvious who was the better wr. Even in the NFL at a time when passing offenses were nothing like today, playing for a team who did not rely on the pass he Swann was seen as having no peers for a time. Swann is a no brainer play with #s all you want.
|
|
|
Post by beavsaregood on Dec 5, 2015 0:48:21 GMT -8
Not one beaver made the list. As someone born in the late 80's, I can only recall about 2 decades worth of OSU football but I'm surprised that neither Terry Baker or Mike Hass made the list. Quarterbacks
John Elway, Stanford Marcus Mariota, Oregon Jim Plunkett, Stanford Andrew Luck, Stanford Matt Leinart, USC Running Backs
Marcus Allen, USC OJ Simpson, USC Charles White, USC Reggie Bush, USC Mike Garrett, USC Wide Receivers
Keyshawn Johnson, USC Lynn Swann, USC Marqise Lee, USC JJ Stokes, UCLA Ken Margerum, Stanford Tight Ends
Tony Gonzalez, California Charles Young, USC Offensive Line
Jonathan Ogden, UCLA Ron Yary, USC Tony Boselli,USC Anthony Munoz, USC Lincoln Kennedy, Washington Brad Budde, USC Randall McDaniel, Arizona State Defensive Ends
Tedy Bruschi, Arizona Terrell Suggs, Arizona State Willie McGinest, USC Andre Carter, California Jim Jeffcoat, Arizona State Defensive Tackles
Steve Emtman, Washington Haloti Ngata, Oregon Rob Waldrop, Arizona Leonard Williams, USC Ed White, California Linebackers
Junior Seau, USC Jerry Robinson, UCLA Ricky Hunley, Arizona Richard Wood, USC Chris Claiborne, USC Cornerbacks
Joey Browner, USC Mel Renfro, Oregon Chris McAlister, Arizona Antoine Cason, Arizona Safeties
Ronnie Lott, USC Kenny Easley, UCLA Troy Polamalu, USC Mark Carrier, USC Kicker
Jason Hanson, Washington State Punter
Tom Hackett, Utah Returner
Reggie Bush, USC Coach
John McKay, USC As said earlier by others, isn't Brandin Cooks > Kenny Margerum? Or, SJ(Steven Jackson) at RB? Aren't some CAL WRs greater than Kenny Margerum, also? How about my favorite 9er as a little, little kid, Gene Washington at WR (a furdie)? Gene Washington has to be greater than Margerum? I loved CAL's Steve Bartkowski at QB...or CAL's Chuck Muncie at RB?.....Not that many Beavs that can get a sniff on the list. .........Probably Brandin Cooks(not Hass) had the best chance. BTW, this is an outstanding list. I love UCLA's Kenny Easley and SC's Ronnie Lott............How about Gronk at TE??
|
|