hof99
Freshman
Posts: 182 
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Post by hof99 on Dec 19, 2016 9:56:39 GMT -8
I would like to start with the Top 6. I am rating based on simple criteria of players coach ( major kudo's ), Principles - solid ethics, and then program progress.
Very tough to do due to the recent changes in some of the programs, but, we ALL have to exercise some judgement even if based on 'soft' metrics.
Thus, here are my picks -
1) Peterson / UW
2) Shaw / Stanford
3) Andersen / OSU
4) USC
5) , 6) everyone else because of serious issues inside the metric sidelines. Colorado ( has staff issues / Leavitt is a lying idiot ). Oregon ( old and new problems , they now own Leavitt and they have a egotisticall head coach that has Implied he is a ' hard arse ' in discipline, at a school that pampers athletes like nowhere else - bad mix, how do
you preach and teach 'tough', with a bunch of 'soft', entitled
athletes ? This will not mix well with the old and new guys, at least initially.
WSU - Leach is a moron, Cal - no consistency, UCLA - Mora has a tough time with entitled athletes too. Utah has a program due to the Mormon connection - thus, I am not convinced that a coach can really put his 100% stamp on this program.
I love where OSU is headed. GA's focus, his vision and his work ethic is under appreciated, his execution is spot on.
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Post by green85 on Dec 19, 2016 11:39:58 GMT -8
I would like to start with the Top 6. I am rating based on simple criteria of players coach ( major kudo's ), Principles - solid ethics, and then program progress. Very tough to do due to the recent changes in some of the programs, but, we ALL have to exercise some judgement even if based on 'soft' metrics. Thus, here are my picks - 1) Peterson / UW 2) Shaw / Stanford 3) Andersen / OSU 4) USC 5) , 6) everyone else because of serious issues inside the metric sidelines. Colorado ( has staff issues / Leavitt is a lying idiot ). Oregon ( old and new problems , they now own Leavitt and they have a egotisticall head coach that has Implied he is a ' hard arse ' in discipline, at a school that pampers athletes like nowhere else - bad mix, how do you preach and teach 'tough', with a bunch of 'soft', entitled athletes ? This will not mix well with the old and new guys, at least initially. WSU - Leach is a moron, Cal - no consistency, UCLA - Mora has a tough time with entitled athletes too. Utah has a program due to the Mormon connection - thus, I am not convinced that a coach can really put his 100% stamp on this program. I love where OSU is headed. GA's focus, his vision and his work ethic is under appreciated, his execution is spot on. . "... Leavitt is a lying idiot "
Can you help me understand this characterization? What exactly did Coach Levitt lie about?
"...egotistical head coach " I am pretty sure every college football head coach has an element of "ego" ... taking pride in one's work and having confidence you can get the job done both seem to be prerequisites for a successful leader in just about any organization ... I am guessing those characteristics can be viewed from a variety of perspectives and sometimes folks can interpret them through a certain prism. All that said, can you tell me specifically what you have seen from Coach Tagart that makes you call him "egotistical"?
"a school that pampers athletes like nowhere else - bad mix, how do
you preach and teach 'tough', with a bunch of 'soft', entitled
athletes ? This will not mix well with the old and new guys, at least initially."
A new coach with an intent to instill a new culture and attitude is often a bumpy transition. I think most Beaver fans would in fact understand that given what has happened with Gary Anderson in his time at OSU. But the new culture and attitude can lead to improvement, even if it contains some rough patches along the way (transfers, lost recruits, players quitting, etc.) ... I mean look at your optimism for Coach GA. It seems fair to assess the success of Coach WT after the same time period (a couple of years) with regards to implementing his program at Oregon [btw, I suspect many Duck fans hold expectations for Oregon to be in a bowl game in 2017 to assess progress under Coach WT - what would be the expectations for measuring success of Coach GA in 2017?].
Which leads to this hypothetical question:
If Oregon is 6-6 in the regular season in 2017 and Oregon State is 5-7 in the regular season in 2017
would Coach WT be considered as good as Coach GA in that year?
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Post by atownbeaver on Dec 19, 2016 11:58:21 GMT -8
I would like to start with the Top 6. I am rating based on simple criteria of players coach ( major kudo's ), Principles - solid ethics, and then program progress. Very tough to do due to the recent changes in some of the programs, but, we ALL have to exercise some judgement even if based on 'soft' metrics. Thus, here are my picks - 1) Peterson / UW 2) Shaw / Stanford 3) Andersen / OSU 4) USC 5) , 6) everyone else because of serious issues inside the metric sidelines. Colorado ( has staff issues / Leavitt is a lying idiot ). Oregon ( old and new problems , they now own Leavitt and they have a egotisticall head coach that has Implied he is a ' hard arse ' in discipline, at a school that pampers athletes like nowhere else - bad mix, how do you preach and teach 'tough', with a bunch of 'soft', entitled athletes ? This will not mix well with the old and new guys, at least initially. WSU - Leach is a moron, Cal - no consistency, UCLA - Mora has a tough time with entitled athletes too. Utah has a program due to the Mormon connection - thus, I am not convinced that a coach can really put his 100% stamp on this program. I love where OSU is headed. GA's focus, his vision and his work ethic is under appreciated, his execution is spot on. . This is not an objective list, this is a "guys I like list" If you are really judging on "Player's coach, Principles, ethics and direction, than having Colorado down the list based on a DC who had a scandal a decade ago is a bit harsh I'd say. Macintyre was on basically every coach of the year list and is the most well known "player coach" in the league just about. Leach is definitely crazy pants, but he is a well known players coach and a guy that took the media to task for "unfair reporting" about his players. He is also holding the mantel for doing the most with the least in the league. Also I can get the Orange colored glasses, but we have won 6 games in two season and still have questions abound. 1. UW - Playoff team, Petersen is a wizard 2. Colorado - strong competitive team he built from the ground up, hopefully Andersen can mimick this success. maybe a small step back next year with a senior heavy class, but looking good. 3. USC - new HC had some struggles early, but made the tough choice, switched QBs and has been unstoppable since. 4. Stanford - some might argue a down trajectory, but he did lose a lot of talent last year, and is killing it on the recruiting trail again, piles of 5* OL lining up for him, again. 5. WSU - competitive in the palouse, salty defense, and the guy is certifiable crazy pants, yet oddly enjoyable. 6. Utah- Whitt is steady eddie, but maybe some of the same criticism as Riley. Win the big game? get over the hump? 7. OSU- took a season and a half, but an identity is emerging. lots of youth to work with here. 8. Arizona - shockingly bad year for 'Zona, but Rich Rod and crew have been competitive and talented more years than not. But like half that team were freshman, so... they could be strong next year. 9. ASU- same as above. time will tell how both teams recover from bad 2016. 10. Cal - Still never really found a defense worth a lick in all these years. needing transfer reinforcements at QB is a bad sign for a coach 4 years in. That is year one/2 instant fix territory 11. UCLA - is their a coach that consistently does less with more, more so than Mora? (that was hard to say...) 12. Oregon - they all got pink slips... so.... |
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Post by nforkbeav on Dec 19, 2016 12:36:31 GMT -8
I would like to start with the Top 6. I am rating based on simple criteria of players coach ( major kudo's ), Principles - solid ethics, and then program progress. Very tough to do due to the recent changes in some of the programs, but, we ALL have to exercise some judgement even if based on 'soft' metrics. Thus, here are my picks - 1) Peterson / UW 2) Shaw / Stanford 3) Andersen / OSU 4) USC 5) , 6) everyone else because of serious issues inside the metric sidelines. Colorado ( has staff issues / Leavitt is a lying idiot ). Oregon ( old and new problems , they now own Leavitt and they have a egotisticall head coach that has Implied he is a ' hard arse ' in discipline, at a school that pampers athletes like nowhere else - bad mix, how do you preach and teach 'tough', with a bunch of 'soft', entitled athletes ? This will not mix well with the old and new guys, at least initially. WSU - Leach is a moron, Cal - no consistency, UCLA - Mora has a tough time with entitled athletes too. Utah has a program due to the Mormon connection - thus, I am not convinced that a coach can really put his 100% stamp on this program. I love where OSU is headed. GA's focus, his vision and his work ethic is under appreciated, his execution is spot on. . This is not an objective list, this is a "guys I like list" If you are really judging on "Player's coach, Principles, ethics and direction, than having Colorado down the list based on a DC who had a scandal a decade ago is a bit harsh I'd say. Macintyre was on basically every coach of the year list and is the most well known "player coach" in the league just about. Leach is definitely crazy pants, but he is a well known players coach and a guy that took the media to task for "unfair reporting" about his players. He is also holding the mantel for doing the most with the least in the league. Also I can get the Orange colored glasses, but we have won 6 games in two season and still have questions abound. 1. UW - Playoff team, Petersen is a wizard 2. Colorado - strong competitive team he built from the ground up, hopefully Andersen can mimick this success. maybe a small step back next year with a senior heavy class, but looking good. 3. USC - new HC had some struggles early, but made the tough choice, switched QBs and has been unstoppable since. 4. Stanford - some might argue a down trajectory, but he did lose a lot of talent last year, and is killing it on the recruiting trail again, piles of 5* OL lining up for him, again. 5. WSU - competitive in the palouse, salty defense, and the guy is certifiable crazy pants, yet oddly enjoyable. 6. Utah- Whitt is steady eddie, but maybe some of the same criticism as Riley. Win the big game? get over the hump? 7. OSU- took a season and a half, but an identity is emerging. lots of youth to work with here. 8. Arizona - shockingly bad year for 'Zona, but Rich Rod and crew have been competitive and talented more years than not. But like half that team were freshman, so... they could be strong next year. 9. ASU- same as above. time will tell how both teams recover from bad 2016. 10. Cal - Still never really found a defense worth a lick in all these years. needing transfer reinforcements at QB is a bad sign for a coach 4 years in. That is year one/2 instant fix territory 11. UCLA - is their a coach that consistently does less with more, more so than Mora? (that was hard to say...) 12. Oregon - they all got pink slips... so.... Based on the criteria in the OP, I'd flip UW and CU and agree with the rest of your list. To go from a 4 win season to 10 win season, showed more progress than anyone in the PAC and possibly the nation. Leaches' coaching ability has risen in my eyes. I didn't think he could replicate the success he had at TT not being surrounded by Texas rich talent. He's loony like a fox. There's a purpose behind his antics and he's entertaining to anyone with a sense of humor. |
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Post by kersting13 on Dec 19, 2016 13:11:58 GMT -8
Based on the criteria in the OP, I'd flip UW and CU and agree with the rest of your list. To go from a 4 win season to 10 win season, showed more progress than anyone in the PAC and possibly the nation. Leaches' coaching ability has risen in my eyes. I didn't think he could replicate the success he had at TT not being surrounded by Texas rich talent. He's loony like a fox. There's a purpose behind his antics and he's entertaining to anyone with a sense of humor. First off, ANY list like this is the very definition of "subjective" and I have a REALLY hard time heaping a bunch of praise on CU coach. He had 3 full years of a total sh!tshow, and really came up big in year 4. Let's see at least two consecutive winning seasons before anointing him some sort of wizard. We could argue pretty convincingly that OSU should have beaten Colorado in 2015, and they would have been the 0-9 team in the Conference that year. Talk about "close/competetive losses" all you want as signs of improvement in 2015, but I still say there was very little shown in 2015 to suggest CU would have any shot at the South title in 2016. I need to see another year of competitiveness to convince me McIntyre has built a program there. The whole idea of being able to rank coaches accurately is kind of silly. |
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Post by nforkbeav on Dec 19, 2016 13:42:33 GMT -8
Based on the criteria in the OP, I'd flip UW and CU and agree with the rest of your list. To go from a 4 win season to 10 win season, showed more progress than anyone in the PAC and possibly the nation. Leaches' coaching ability has risen in my eyes. I didn't think he could replicate the success he had at TT not being surrounded by Texas rich talent. He's loony like a fox. There's a purpose behind his antics and he's entertaining to anyone with a sense of humor. First off, ANY list like this is the very definition of "subjective" and I have a REALLY hard time heaping a bunch of praise on CU coach. He had 3 full years of a total sh!tshow, and really came up big in year 4. Let's see at least two consecutive winning seasons before anointing him some sort of wizard. We could argue pretty convincingly that OSU should have beaten Colorado in 2015, and they would have been the 0-9 team in the Conference that year. Talk about "close/competetive losses" all you want as signs of improvement in 2015, but I still say there was very little shown in 2015 to suggest CU would have any shot at the South title in 2016. I need to see another year of competitiveness to convince me McIntyre has built a program there. The whole idea of being able to rank coaches accurately is kind of silly. Of course it's silly, yet it's what fans of teams who don't have a bowl game to look forwards to resort to talking about. Like or dislike MacIntyre, from the time hawkins took over in 2006 to the time macintyre took over in 2013 CU went something like 13-60 (.178%) over 7 seasons. In four years MacIntyre has produced 20 wins (20-30 .400%) with the potential for one more this season. Any way it's sliced, that's a significant improvement worthy of recognition. Option A (7 years = 13 wins) Option B (4 years = 20 wins) Option B looks a lot better to me. |
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Post by beavadelic on Dec 19, 2016 14:47:09 GMT -8
First off, ANY list like this is the very definition of "subjective" and I have a REALLY hard time heaping a bunch of praise on CU coach. He had 3 full years of a total sh!tshow, and really came up big in year 4. Let's see at least two consecutive winning seasons before anointing him some sort of wizard. We could argue pretty convincingly that OSU should have beaten Colorado in 2015, and they would have been the 0-9 team in the Conference that year. Talk about "close/competetive losses" all you want as signs of improvement in 2015, but I still say there was very little shown in 2015 to suggest CU would have any shot at the South title in 2016. I need to see another year of competitiveness to convince me McIntyre has built a program there. The whole idea of being able to rank coaches accurately is kind of silly. Of course it's silly, yet it's what fans of teams who don't have a bowl game to look forwards to resort to talking about. Like or dislike MacIntyre, from the time hawkins took over in 2006 to the time macintyre took over in 2013 CU went something like 13-60 (.178%) over 7 seasons. In four years MacIntyre has produced 20 wins (20-30 .400%) with the potential for one more this season. Any way it's sliced, that's a significant improvement worthy of recognition. Option A (7 years = 13 wins) Option B (4 years = 20 wins) Option B looks a lot better to me. Exactly...no way this could be anything but subjective, given divergent opinions of everything from what the coach has to work with to which university they represent. My slant doesn't give much weight to one strong season. Given that criteria, I would rate them as follows: 1 - Petersen - The guy is a great combination of awesome coach and first class human being. He can win anywhere! 2 - Shaw - He stepped in for the mad genius when he wore out his welcome on the farm, and stabilized a brand of excellence, despite recruiting limitations with academic standards, etc. 3 - McIntyre - He inherited a mess, and systematically, methodically has built something sustainable as long as he strays in Boulder. 4 - Leach - He's crazy as a loon, but he gets the most out of talent and coaches exciting football. 5 - Whittingham - He is just an excellent coach. If he had the talent that USC, UW or UCLA can lure, he'd kill it, but they don't get over that final hump because Utah is a destination that leaves him recruiting the same pool as WSU, Colorado and OSU do. 6 - Andersen - Talk to me in a year, and he could be higher. I have always admired him, but 1 good year at Utah St., then just holding it together at Wisconsin, leaves me needing to see him get us to a bowl soon to feel that he's an upper-echelon coach. 7 - Graham - He's hard-nosed and his teams play hard. He's had a lot of success, but he needs to get them over the hump 8 - Rich Rod - He's a good coach, but over-rated IMO. He seems to spin wheels - did it at Michigan. too. Maybe doesn't adapt to personnel all that well? 9 - Helton - Don't know about this guy. He seems to have USC going again, but it's USC after all, and too early to rate him. 10 - Dykes - Just a meh coach. Coaches fun offensive football, but I don't see Cal challenging for the north title as long as he's there 11 - Mora - Over-rated, under-achieving and WAY too tightly wound. UCLA recruits great classes on paper, but they are weird. 12 - Taggart - In no way can I say that the guy isn't a good coach, but he'll need to get it done at this level before I can even evaluate him. Talks a good game though, and he seems motivational..we'll see |
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hof99
Freshman
Posts: 182
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Post by hof99 on Dec 19, 2016 14:56:30 GMT -8
I discounted based on the fact that he had hired Leavitt. If you go back and read what happened with him and his players ( you will see a leopard that does not change his spots). He is a guy that thinks he is above reproach.
Yeah, McIntire did great, but, it could also be a one season 'lightning in a bottle' aberration. Look up the articles on this clown.
As far as Taggart. The guy is so out there promoting himself and 'his system' and no ego's that he is shouting ego from the rooftops. ' I am going after Morris , I am going after Tua, I am going after the best of the best... give me a break, you have to earn this stuff - you can't just mouth off about it. And the idiot duck fans are feeding the ego like this guy is the next chip kelly,
I said at the beginning that these were soft metrics, but, in the recruiting world, a players coach, with TRUE ethics and has a positive impact on a program - speaks to what most of the kids are looking for. Thus, better recruiting and program consistency - over time.
Sure, everyone can argue about the approach, but nothing is stopping anyone from giving their input.
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Post by beavsaregood on Dec 19, 2016 15:09:29 GMT -8
Petersen (taking udub to the playoffs)
MacIntyre (rebuilding CO into a winner. I think his program will be solid for many years)
Shaw (continues the greatness of Stanford FB)
Clay Helton (SC is where they should be under him)
Whittingham (I hate Utah almost as much as Boise State. But, I cannot deny the fact that he has brought Utah up to speed in the Pac-12.....Defense always solid.)
Pirate (I like his brand of ball. A red-ass. An eccentric. A weirdo. A smart guy. A smart-ass. But, when his air raid is on, it's fun to watch)
Next Tier, below (all the same to me at this point)
Andersen (we shall see. they're improving.)
Dykes (he increased cal's grad rates. he can recruit a bit. not sure if he's a fit. a southwest guy?...i like cal. i think they should be winning more often....)
Richrod (i like him. dunno. i just like him.)
Graham (i like him, too. i thought he'd have a more consistent winning team.)
Mora ( i like him...........but, ucla should be winning more often........)
Helfrich ( i like him. but, at the nouveau riche university of nike, you gotsta win.........)
Bottom line: the pac-12 have great coaches. thus, the pac-12 will be even more competitive. just hard. gonna beat each other up.
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Post by green85 on Dec 19, 2016 15:17:32 GMT -8
I discounted based on the fact that he had hired Leavitt. If you go back and read what happened with him and his players ( you will see a leopard that does not change his spots). He is a guy that thinks he is above reproach. Yeah, McIntire did great, but, it could also be a one season 'lightning in a bottle' aberration. Look up the articles on this clown. As far as Taggart. The guy is so out there promoting himself and 'his system' and no ego's that he is shouting ego from the rooftops. ' I am going after Morris , I am going after Tua, I am going after the best of the best... give me a break, you have to earn this stuff - you can't just mouth off about it. And the idiot duck fans are feeding the ego like this guy is the next chip kelly, I said at the beginning that these were soft metrics, but, in the recruiting world, a players coach, with TRUE ethics and has a positive impact on a program - speaks to what most of the kids are looking for. Thus, better recruiting and program consistency - over time. Sure, everyone can argue about the approach, but nothing is stopping anyone from giving their input.
I admit I have not researched Leavitt's career - which is one of the reasons I asked for some specifics about "lying" thing in the original post. I will take your suggestion and spend some time looking into his coaching career. As for "can't change his spots" ... someone did tell me that his association with McIntyre at CU did change him.
As for Taggart promoting himself ... I think if you look back to the introduction of GA you will find he spent time with media outlets (Jim Rome, Dan Patrick, ESPN, etc.) talking about his role as the new OSU head coach. He obviously spent a bunch of time with the local media (Oregonian, local TV sportscasters, etc.) promoting his vision and approach. He even mentioned his recruiting approach in those interviews, including "going after" players that OSU had not gone after before. Not sure how Taggart's promotion now is different from GA, except that it is NOW and not a couple of years ago (fresh in the mind).
In addition, the situation for the media and Oregon is slightly different than the transition for OSU. Oregon FIRED a coach that had taken his team to the College Football Playoff Championship game just two years earlier. And Oregon had not hired from outside the program in decades - those circumstances certainly leads to a little more "PR" because the media THINKS that the general consumer of college football stuff would find the situation interesting. That, and the fact that many fans of college football are NOT fans of Oregon ... so they would want to know about Willie and assess his chances.
Mark Helfrich from all reports was a man of integrity that was loved by his players. Unfortunately some reports said he was not respected by some members of the team (even those that liked him personally). Which leads to the question about "players coach" ... is that the guy the players like or the guy the players respect?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 17:07:37 GMT -8
i found some info on the web to make this so you dont have to guess about which coaches are 1,2,3 etc. I mean it's pretty easy because most of the teams do play each other every year and all fans care about are what their coach did for them lately:
Final Pac 12 Conference standings
Petersen
McinCryer
Charlton Heston or whoever the SC coach is
Leach
Shaw
Whittin'ham
GARY ANDERSEN
Dykes
Graham Cracker
M.O.R.A.
RichRod
Willie no Wins In Pac 12
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