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Post by kvgeorge on Dec 13, 2016 16:13:35 GMT -8
What a bunch of whiny crybabies, the Beavers had a bad loss, it was ugly, we can't win blah blah blah. Folks, this program was a train wreck when Coach Tinkle took over and he has done more to move this program forward in two years than the last 6 coaches combined. Not one of whom made the NCAA's or even came close. Crap happens and we saw a major pile dropped on the floor yesterday afternoon no doubt. Those losses will happen from time to time with young teams. The question is what happens next? Play like they did yesterday and they may not win a another, definitely not one in the PAC. Or, toughen up, listen to your coaches and perform like players that got recruited to a D1, Power 5 Conference College and have some game to work with. Basketball is a team sport and yesterday there were 12 young men who played as individuals and not as a team.You cannot coach leadership and right now we lack a leader on the court. They looked slow, confused and clueless on both ends of the court. No one stepped up put the team on their back and led them to a win. It was there to do but not one player risked attempting to make something happen. There are lots of reasons why that happens, coaching may be a part of it but before we jump to that conclusion it remains to be seen where the season ends and how this group grows and comes together or does not come together. The choice is clear, learn, grow and improve or implode, blame and quit. I expect the season to improve and for the future to be bright. If we are seeing this 2-3 seasons from now it will be time for another coach. But not until then. The story is not finished. I agree with the main point of your post... it is not time to think of firing WT. But, as proven by those "passengers on the last train", it was not quite the wreck some thought. There were not a lot of highly ranked recruits, but they could play team ball and were coachable. Something I have not yet seen from the last two classes. Also... I 've not seen much improvement in some issues many complained about under CR... any semblance of an offense, especially versus a zone... being able to defend the 3 pt line... help side D... out of bounds play and efficiency... being able to defend dribble penetration. Now... going to a "dance" has to do with many things, not just W's. In last years Pac12/NCAA I could see (1) of CR's teams making the field... so there is more than just WT's influence involved in making the tourney last year. So, in my mind he got a little too much credit when it really was a bunch of holdovers and GPII (CR's recruit really) that deserved most of the credit. They made some adjustments, but the coaching they received prior could not have been all bad, because if they had made such a fantastic leap from WT's coaching (from CR being so poor of a coach) we would not see such atrocious play now out of supposedly better players. All in all... I was not a CR fan, but he did some good things and tried to surround himself with quality assistants much the same as WT. I just did not see the program as rock bottom as some, hence other than the "tourney invite" I do not see the program any further along than it was when CR left. I'm not on the "fire WT" bus... but, do think breaking the "danceless" streak has colored some glasses. Agreed I liked CR as well and agreed with your points but overall the program was a shambles. 6 previous coaches over 18 years going 239 - 429 and that is not including the Anderson Years. There was little enthusiasm for Men's Basketball when CR left and a point could be made his firing actually improved overall morale of fans and players. AS for coach able players and a coach making the best of his talent WT's first year was amazing team basketball and year two was better. The man has coaching skills and seems to be the right fit for the program. Any talk about a replacement is premature based on the points you made in your post. I like where we are headed this year is just part of the process as another coach likes to say "Respect the Process"
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bill82
Freshman
OSU's 10,157th Best Donor
Posts: 971
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Post by bill82 on Dec 13, 2016 17:35:08 GMT -8
Folks, this program was a train wreck when Coach Tinkle took over and he has done more to move this program forward in two years than the last 6 coaches combined. The Sagarin rankings do not support this conclusion. Rather, they show the program has dropped off a cliff this year. Yes, GPII moved the team from a top 100 team to a top 60 team last year and an NCAA appearance. That 40 spot increase has happened under other coaches. For Tinkle, he was starting at a higher spot than others. The only difference between Tinkle and other coaches is that he has led us to an unprecedented drop this season.
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Post by orangeblood on Dec 13, 2016 17:40:16 GMT -8
I have been led to believe that Bruce was due to academics. Malcolm - no idea?
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Post by touchdownbeavers on Dec 13, 2016 18:05:59 GMT -8
I'm giving BeaverNut 23 a pass. He is an OSU fan. No reason to "fire" him as a fan, but some of us have seen some incredible OSU losses. All he wants and is demanding are "OSU" wins.
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Post by 93beav on Dec 13, 2016 18:40:15 GMT -8
Folks, this program was a train wreck when Coach Tinkle took over and he has done more to move this program forward in two years than the last 6 coaches combined. The only difference between Tinkle and other coaches is that he has led us to an unprecedented drop this season. I could have a college basketball program lose 11 players in a train wreck and completely tank the Sagarin rankings. That's why context is important.
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bill82
Freshman
OSU's 10,157th Best Donor
Posts: 971
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Post by bill82 on Dec 13, 2016 19:14:36 GMT -8
The only difference between Tinkle and other coaches is that he has led us to an unprecedented drop this season. I could have a college basketball program lose 11 players in a train wreck and completely tank the Sagarin rankings. That's why context is important. So Tinkle's performance this year is comparable to a University losing their entire team in a train wreck? And you are good with that? I'd suggest a slightly higher bar.
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Post by lebaneaver on Dec 13, 2016 19:55:44 GMT -8
Those that want to fire Tink are just PISSED! I get it. I don't agree that we throw him out but, damn....this is rat-league basketball. Ugly. No rhythm, no rhyme, NO perimeter "D". Too soft inside (unless we are playing SOU) Tinkle and staff need to work harder than they've ever worked. Let's pick it up, gentlemen. You're making a salary most all of us would KILL FOR. Earn it. That's all I've got.
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Post by fridaynightlights on Dec 13, 2016 21:14:13 GMT -8
Should be a barn burner on Friday when 2 - 10 LBSU takes on 3 - 7 OSU. If your brave enough to attend that game the AD should give you a full refund for the price of your ticket.
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Post by jdogge on Dec 13, 2016 22:00:09 GMT -8
After tonight...I'm done...Tinkle has lost my faith and respect. #FireTinkle You do know you misspelled hopping?
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Post by 93beav on Dec 14, 2016 9:24:52 GMT -8
I could have a college basketball program lose 11 players in a train wreck and completely tank the Sagarin rankings. That's why context is important. So Tinkle's performance this year is comparable to a University losing their entire team in a train wreck? And you are good with that? I'd suggest a slightly higher bar. That's not what I said. What I said was that context is important. You can throw out all sorts of stats. If you just blindly look at them without looking at the team or circumstances around the team it means exactly diddley squat.
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Post by baseba1111 on Dec 14, 2016 15:54:19 GMT -8
So Tinkle's performance this year is comparable to a University losing their entire team in a train wreck? And you are good with that? I'd suggest a slightly higher bar. That's not what I said. What I said was that context is important. You can throw out all sorts of stats. If you just blindly look at them without looking at the team or circumstances around the team it means exactly diddley squat. You do not have to be blind... nor does context matter... only one stat counts... 3-8 on a soft soft schedule. You can blame all sorts of of stuff... but this roster is not a talented as some seem to believe after two recruiting classes. Not only lacking in skill and athleticism, but it seems "coachability" and floor leadership. If OSU doesn't sweep The Dam Classic over a 2-10 LBSU and a 5-3 UP team with decent losses to UCLA and Colorado, but W's against (UC Riverside, SJSU, L&C College, CalSt Northridge, UT Rio Grande Valley) you can jot down 2-16 or so for the league season fully healthy. But... this fall off seems to be more than meets the eye. We're not this bad. A record of 7-4/8-3 on this schedule even with injuries should have been attainable. There is something else going on and I hope it isn't about nepotism in any way shape or form.
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Post by Tigardbeav on Dec 14, 2016 16:19:35 GMT -8
Should be a barn burner on Friday when 2 - 10 LBSU takes on 3 - 7 OSU. When did Linn Benton became a University? We'll have to play our best ball to come out on top there.
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Post by 93beav on Dec 14, 2016 16:19:59 GMT -8
That's not what I said. What I said was that context is important. You can throw out all sorts of stats. If you just blindly look at them without looking at the team or circumstances around the team it means exactly diddley squat. You do not have to be blind... nor does context matter... only one stat counts... 3-8 on a soft soft schedule. You can blame all sorts of of stuff... but this roster is not a talented as some seem to believe after two recruiting classes. Not only lacking in skill and athleticism, but it seems "coachability" and floor leadership. If OSU doesn't sweep The Dam Classic over a 2-10 LBSU and a 5-3 UP team with decent losses to UCLA and Colorado, but W's against (UC Riverside, SJSU, L&C College, CalSt Northridge, UT Rio Grande Valley) you can jot down 2-16 or so for the league season fully healthy. But... this fall off seems to be more than meets the eye. We're not this bad. A record of 7-4/8-3 on this schedule even with injuries should have been attainable. There is something else going on and I hope it isn't about nepotism in any way shape or form. I still believe context matters. In fact, I'd argue that you're alluding to context by bringing up the talent of the roster. I'm merely stating that talking about such a steep drop in X,Y and Z ratings requires context to fully understand. Sitting by themselves they don't mean very much to me. It's also early in the year and we're in a bit of a reload cycle.
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ccc
Freshman
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Post by ccc on Dec 14, 2016 17:30:01 GMT -8
Wow what a thread. I have attended all but a couple of the Tinkle era games. Is this year bad! Ya, worse than bad....Western Oregon over and over. So what to do? We have the right man for the job. It is in the worst of times we need to show support. We seriously lack cohesive talent. Give it appropriate time we can all see it will be better. I am ashamed not that people are dismayed but at the inability to afford a hard working group the chance to address their adversity.
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Post by touchdownbeavers on Dec 14, 2016 19:57:19 GMT -8
I've changed my mind. Fire everybody. You took an OSU team to the NCAA Tournament for the first time in a quarter of a century but you start the next season 3-8. YOU'RE FIRED!
I can't see (nor understand) your offense or defense. YOU'RE FIRED.
Coach CR probably had a team that maybe should have gotten to the NCAAs. YOU'RE FIRED.
However, exactly which Power 5 HC is going to come to Oregon State when a few impatient fans want to fire a coach with an overall winning record after 2 years and 11 games?
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