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Post by rgeorge on Sept 6, 2024 11:37:53 GMT -8
G5 level? According to what? Money? Wrong. Funding is higher than the vast majority of G5 schools. TV viewership? Wrong. Not even close last season. Better even in low seasons. Football success? Wrong. The Beavers were easily above average (averaged nearly 7.5 wins a season) in the Pac-12 during the past 25 years outside of three GAG seasons and the first three seasons of JS (including the 2-5 pandemic season). They still averaged over six wins a season counting those six down years. The Beavers went to 14 bowl games and had four 7-win teams, four 8-win teams, three 9-win teams, two 10-win teams and the 11-1 Fiesta Bowl season. All while in a power conference. Head to head vs. MWC teams during that period, the Beavers had one home loss to Boise State in 2016 (GAG). Otherwise, there were three road losses to Boise State, two road losses to Fresno State, a bowl loss to Hawaii in Hawaii and a bowl loss to Utah State (MWC champion). The Beavers lost at Colorado State (GAG) and at Nevada and at Hawaii during the first two Jonathan Smith seasons. The Beavers won three games (two home) against Fresno State, won three home games and one bowl against Boise State. They were 4-0 vs. SDSU, 3-0 vs. New Mexico, 2-0 vs. San Jose State, 2-0 vs. UNLV, 1-0 vs. Nevada (2-0 if you count 1998, also a win against Utah State in 1998). And four home wins and one road win vs. Hawaii. They also split two games with Utah, lost a bowl to BYU and lost to the undefeated 2010 TCU team. In the past three seasons, OSU has defeated Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State (road), San Jose State (road) and SDSU. Only two OSU teams that had eight or more wins during the past 25 seasons lost to Fresno State or Boise State. So basically the Beavers primarily lost a few road games to Boise State and Fresno State, easily the two most dominant MWC teams. You could definitely make a strong case that Boise State and Fresno State have power level football programs. So I don't agree at all that OSU specifically is seen as a G5 level program by the people who actually run other conferences. Because OSU is not a G5 level program. In a conference? Even though stats say overall better recent success than many that are... nope! Spout stats all you want. OSU is playing a top tier G5/BSU type schedule and paying to do so. Paying and floating the AD on former conference $, not their own. And, will again in 2025 Perception, even if wrong, can shape reality. Reality bites at times. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2024 11:51:23 GMT -8
G5 level? According to what? Money? Wrong. Funding is higher than the vast majority of G5 schools. TV viewership? Wrong. Not even close last season. Better even in low seasons. Football success? Wrong. The Beavers were easily above average (averaged nearly 7.5 wins a season) in the Pac-12 during the past 25 years outside of three GAG seasons and the first three seasons of JS (including the 2-5 pandemic season). They still averaged over six wins a season counting those six down years. The Beavers went to 14 bowl games and had four 7-win teams, four 8-win teams, three 9-win teams, two 10-win teams and the 11-1 Fiesta Bowl season. All while in a power conference. Head to head vs. MWC teams during that period, the Beavers had one home loss to Boise State in 2016 (GAG). Otherwise, there were three road losses to Boise State, two road losses to Fresno State, a bowl loss to Hawaii in Hawaii and a bowl loss to Utah State (MWC champion). The Beavers lost at Colorado State (GAG) and at Nevada and at Hawaii during the first two Jonathan Smith seasons. The Beavers won three games (two home) against Fresno State, won three home games and one bowl against Boise State. They were 4-0 vs. SDSU, 3-0 vs. New Mexico, 2-0 vs. San Jose State, 2-0 vs. UNLV, 1-0 vs. Nevada (2-0 if you count 1998, also a win against Utah State in 1998). And four home wins and one road win vs. Hawaii. They also split two games with Utah, lost a bowl to BYU and lost to the undefeated 2010 TCU team. In the past three seasons, OSU has defeated Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State (road), San Jose State (road) and SDSU. Only two OSU teams that had eight or more wins during the past 25 seasons lost to Fresno State or Boise State. So basically the Beavers primarily lost a few road games to Boise State and Fresno State, easily the two most dominant MWC teams. You could definitely make a strong case that Boise State and Fresno State have power level football programs. So I don't agree at all that OSU specifically is seen as a G5 level program by the people who actually run other conferences. Because OSU is not a G5 level program. In a conference? Even though stats say overall better recent success than many that are... nope! Spout stats all you want. OSU is playing a top tier G5/BSU type schedule and paying to do so. Paying and floating the AD on former conference $, not their own. And, will again in 2025 Perception, even if wrong, can shape reality. Reality bites at times. I'll take facts over opinions for $500, Alex! LOL. The reality is that they got left out of realignment because the Pac-12 broke up, so they are working to get back into a power conference. There is no factual evidence that they have dropped to the G5 level as a football program. They will play the MWC scheduling agreement games this fall and then move on in 2025, which will be much more like a power conference schedule. The Pac-12 is not a G5 conference. OSU and WSU are not G5 teams. And I doubt that Oregon State will be when it's all said and done. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on Sept 6, 2024 12:22:50 GMT -8
In a conference? Even though stats say overall better recent success than many that are... nope! Spout stats all you want. OSU is playing a top tier G5/BSU type schedule and paying to do so. Paying and floating the AD on former conference $, not their own. And, will again in 2025 Perception, even if wrong, can shape reality. Reality bites at times. I'll take facts over opinions for $500, Alex! LOL. The reality is that they got left out of realignment because the Pac-12 broke up, so they are working to get back into a power conference. There is no factual evidence that they have dropped to the G5 level as a football program. They will play the MWC scheduling agreement games this fall and then move on in 2025, which will be much more like a power conference schedule. The Pac-12 is not a G5 conference. OSU and WSU are not G5 teams. And I doubt that Oregon State will be when it's all said and done. Many would have you believe that we should just join the MW. Never liked that approach. Feels like giving up. Barnes has indicated that the AD will be funded like a P4 school.......at least until the money runs out, or we get a better landing spot. I agree with that approach. If we wanna be in a P4 we need to act like it. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 6, 2024 12:38:16 GMT -8
I'll take facts over opinions for $500, Alex! LOL. The reality is that they got left out of realignment because the Pac-12 broke up, so they are working to get back into a power conference. There is no factual evidence that they have dropped to the G5 level as a football program. They will play the MWC scheduling agreement games this fall and then move on in 2025, which will be much more like a power conference schedule. The Pac-12 is not a G5 conference. OSU and WSU are not G5 teams. And I doubt that Oregon State will be when it's all said and done. Many would have you believe that we should just join the MW. Never liked that approach. Feels like giving up. Barnes has indicated that the AD will be funded like a P4 school.......at least until the money runs out, or we get a better landing spot. I agree with that approach. If we wanna be in a P4 we need to act like it.For the umpteenth time, we can act like a P4 school or act like the King of England all we want, but if no P4 conference wants us, we're not going to be a P4 school. And so far, no P4 conference has shown it's even remotely interested in us. Like it or not, that's where we stand. When it comes to being a P4 school, we do not control our own destiny. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2024 12:42:38 GMT -8
The talks are supposedly paused, not ended. But either way, IMO this is way more about the conference presidents not buying into Yormark's basketball conference push. UConn men's basketball made $10.6 million in 2023 and the football program operates at about a $14 million deficit and does not have a great track record on the field, nor is there a strong fan base. Rob Reinhart of the New York Herald reported that "UConn's plans to move to the Big 12 were cancelled due to their football program's lack of NIL funding and poor performance on the field, per source." Also from Reinhart: "The conference was not aligned on broadcasting numbers, and believed UConn's lack of viewership would trouble advertisers." The Big 12 will add schools in the future (particularly if the ACC implodes) but they will most likely be schools that are solid in football. |
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 6, 2024 12:46:29 GMT -8
G5 level? According to what? Money? Wrong. Funding is higher than the vast majority of G5 schools. TV viewership? Wrong. Not even close last season. Better even in low seasons. Football success? Wrong. The Beavers were easily above average (averaged nearly 7.5 wins a season) in the Pac-12 during the past 25 years outside of three GAG seasons and the first three seasons of JS (including the 2-5 pandemic season). They still averaged over six wins a season counting those six down years. The Beavers went to 14 bowl games and had four 7-win teams, four 8-win teams, three 9-win teams, two 10-win teams and the 11-1 Fiesta Bowl season. All while in a power conference. Head to head vs. MWC teams during that period, the Beavers had one home loss to Boise State in 2016 (GAG). Otherwise, there were three road losses to Boise State, two road losses to Fresno State, a bowl loss to Hawaii in Hawaii and a bowl loss to Utah State (MWC champion). The Beavers lost at Colorado State (GAG) and at Nevada and at Hawaii during the first two Jonathan Smith seasons. The Beavers won three games (two home) against Fresno State, won three home games and one bowl against Boise State. They were 4-0 vs. SDSU, 3-0 vs. New Mexico, 2-0 vs. San Jose State, 2-0 vs. UNLV, 1-0 vs. Nevada (2-0 if you count 1998, also a win against Utah State in 1998). And four home wins and one road win vs. Hawaii. They also split two games with Utah, lost a bowl to BYU and lost to the undefeated 2010 TCU team. In the past three seasons, OSU has defeated Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State (road), San Jose State (road) and SDSU. Only two OSU teams that had eight or more wins during the past 25 seasons lost to Fresno State or Boise State. So basically the Beavers primarily lost a few road games to Boise State and Fresno State, easily the two most dominant MWC teams. You could definitely make a strong case that Boise State and Fresno State have power level football programs. So I don't agree at all that OSU specifically is seen as a G5 level program by the people who actually run other conferences. Because OSU is not a G5 level program. Really, then what power conference are we in? If we weren't viewed that way, we would have already gotten an invite. And the Pac-12 is not a G5 conference, because it's not really a conference at all right now. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2024 13:07:31 GMT -8
G5 level? According to what? Money? Wrong. Funding is higher than the vast majority of G5 schools. TV viewership? Wrong. Not even close last season. Better even in low seasons. Football success? Wrong. The Beavers were easily above average (averaged nearly 7.5 wins a season) in the Pac-12 during the past 25 years outside of three GAG seasons and the first three seasons of JS (including the 2-5 pandemic season). They still averaged over six wins a season counting those six down years. The Beavers went to 14 bowl games and had four 7-win teams, four 8-win teams, three 9-win teams, two 10-win teams and the 11-1 Fiesta Bowl season. All while in a power conference. Head to head vs. MWC teams during that period, the Beavers had one home loss to Boise State in 2016 (GAG). Otherwise, there were three road losses to Boise State, two road losses to Fresno State, a bowl loss to Hawaii in Hawaii and a bowl loss to Utah State (MWC champion). The Beavers lost at Colorado State (GAG) and at Nevada and at Hawaii during the first two Jonathan Smith seasons. The Beavers won three games (two home) against Fresno State, won three home games and one bowl against Boise State. They were 4-0 vs. SDSU, 3-0 vs. New Mexico, 2-0 vs. San Jose State, 2-0 vs. UNLV, 1-0 vs. Nevada (2-0 if you count 1998, also a win against Utah State in 1998). And four home wins and one road win vs. Hawaii. They also split two games with Utah, lost a bowl to BYU and lost to the undefeated 2010 TCU team. In the past three seasons, OSU has defeated Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State (road), San Jose State (road) and SDSU. Only two OSU teams that had eight or more wins during the past 25 seasons lost to Fresno State or Boise State. So basically the Beavers primarily lost a few road games to Boise State and Fresno State, easily the two most dominant MWC teams. You could definitely make a strong case that Boise State and Fresno State have power level football programs. So I don't agree at all that OSU specifically is seen as a G5 level program by the people who actually run other conferences. Because OSU is not a G5 level program. Really, then what power conference are we in? If we weren't viewed that way, we would have already gotten an invite. Well, according to Barnes, it's the Pac-12, lol. IMO the Big 12 did not move to add OSU and WSU mostly due to geography, not so much about what they do or don't add. The ACC added Stanford and Cal primarily because of academics but that decision was argued against by some programs that wanted more of a focus on athletics. FSU flat-out mentioned Oregon State. The ACC will most likely face necessary adds in the near future unless it falls apart completely. The Big Ten was only interested in elite, big name schools. Obviously, OSU and WSU do not fit that mold. I don't believe OSU and WSU are viewed by the power conferences as having G5 level football programs (especially not Oregon State). And again, they are no longer in a power conference but not in a G5 conference either. The reality is that they are essentially temporary independents in football. But IMO the power conferences most likely see them as middle of the road power level adds (although I believe they are very aware of the 2023 tv viewership that happened after the fact), which wasn't good enough in the last round of realignment but that will absolutely change if there is a next round. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 6, 2024 13:12:56 GMT -8
Many predict the next round of realignment will reduce the number of top-level football schools, not increase it.
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2024 13:16:14 GMT -8
Many predict the next round of realignment will reduce the number of top-level football schools, not increase it. That makes no sense and I haven't seen "many" predicting this. |
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 6, 2024 13:18:45 GMT -8
G5 level? According to what? Money? Wrong. Funding is higher than the vast majority of G5 schools. TV viewership? Wrong. Not even close last season. Better even in low seasons. Football success? Wrong. The Beavers were easily above average (averaged nearly 7.5 wins a season) in the Pac-12 during the past 25 years outside of three GAG seasons and the first three seasons of JS (including the 2-5 pandemic season). They still averaged over six wins a season counting those six down years. The Beavers went to 14 bowl games and had four 7-win teams, four 8-win teams, three 9-win teams, two 10-win teams and the 11-1 Fiesta Bowl season. All while in a power conference. Head to head vs. MWC teams during that period, the Beavers had one home loss to Boise State in 2016 (GAG). Otherwise, there were three road losses to Boise State, two road losses to Fresno State, a bowl loss to Hawaii in Hawaii and a bowl loss to Utah State (MWC champion). The Beavers lost at Colorado State (GAG) and at Nevada and at Hawaii during the first two Jonathan Smith seasons. The Beavers won three games (two home) against Fresno State, won three home games and one bowl against Boise State. They were 4-0 vs. SDSU, 3-0 vs. New Mexico, 2-0 vs. San Jose State, 2-0 vs. UNLV, 1-0 vs. Nevada (2-0 if you count 1998, also a win against Utah State in 1998). And four home wins and one road win vs. Hawaii. They also split two games with Utah, lost a bowl to BYU and lost to the undefeated 2010 TCU team. In the past three seasons, OSU has defeated Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State (road), San Jose State (road) and SDSU. Only two OSU teams that had eight or more wins during the past 25 seasons lost to Fresno State or Boise State. So basically the Beavers primarily lost a few road games to Boise State and Fresno State, easily the two most dominant MWC teams. You could definitely make a strong case that Boise State and Fresno State have power level football programs. So I don't agree at all that OSU specifically is seen as a G5 level program by the people who actually run other conferences. Because OSU is not a G5 level program. Performance aside, funding of the athletic department is probably most telling in terms of where a school "belongs". Not many of us are going to want to hear this, but Washington State and Oregon State rank 53rd and 54th respectively among public universities in athletic department budget. We spend $8M a year more than Cincinnati and $20 million a year less than Oklahoma State. In terms of the commitment to athletics, Oregon State kind of hovers near the bottom of the P5 schools and the top of the G5 schools, though there are no (public) G5 schools that spend more than the Pac2. We are on the bubble. That is the God's honest truth. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Sept 6, 2024 13:20:12 GMT -8
Bottom line they are all afraid of us. It's the only answer.
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Post by atownbeaver on Sept 6, 2024 13:24:54 GMT -8
You can't see that happening, yet somehow Barnes and Murthy seem to think it's very possible.It is highly likely that the ACC will have to add teams in the future. It is also likely that it will look to add OSU and WSU when that happens. IMO, Barnes is very aware of this and has most likely done more than a little talking with ACC administrators. As far as the Big 12, why is Yormark talking about adding more teams at some point if the CFP money is such a huge sticking point? And midlevel ACC schools are not better adds than OSU. Let the Olympic sports join the MWC if it's a better option than the WCC, which is highly doubtful. Baseball and gymnastics are going to be independents anyway. Maybe others. My guess is OSU football will wind up somewhere else. I think they are hoping. Big difference. Barnes and Murthy actually talk to people. Have real conversations with real humans that really make decision. We are all just jackasses behind a keyboard with opinions. I think Barnes and Murthy have more to go on than hopes and prayers. If they are putting a lot of weight into a certain outcome, you have to figure it is a reason greater than hope. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 6, 2024 13:26:25 GMT -8
In a conference? Even though stats say overall better recent success than many that are... nope! Spout stats all you want. OSU is playing a top tier G5/BSU type schedule and paying to do so. Paying and floating the AD on former conference $, not their own. And, will again in 2025 Perception, even if wrong, can shape reality. Reality bites at times. I'll take facts over opinions for $500, Alex! LOL. The reality is that they got left out of realignment because the Pac-12 broke up, so they are working to get back into a power conference. There is no factual evidence that they have dropped to the G5 level as a football program. They will play the MWC scheduling agreement games this fall and then move on in 2025, which will be much more like a power conference schedule. The Pac-12 is not a G5 conference. OSU and WSU are not G5 teams. And I doubt that Oregon State will be when it's all said and done. Fact... Pac12 broke up and 10 other teams were taken. Fact... OSU isn't P4 or G5. Fact... OSU's schedule is a top tier G5 schedule. Fact... unless the 2025 schedule has 7, 8 or 9 P4 opponents it'll again be closer to a G5 schedule. Thanks for the $500😁 |
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2024 13:39:14 GMT -8
G5 level? According to what? Money? Wrong. Funding is higher than the vast majority of G5 schools. TV viewership? Wrong. Not even close last season. Better even in low seasons. Football success? Wrong. The Beavers were easily above average (averaged nearly 7.5 wins a season) in the Pac-12 during the past 25 years outside of three GAG seasons and the first three seasons of JS (including the 2-5 pandemic season). They still averaged over six wins a season counting those six down years. The Beavers went to 14 bowl games and had four 7-win teams, four 8-win teams, three 9-win teams, two 10-win teams and the 11-1 Fiesta Bowl season. All while in a power conference. Head to head vs. MWC teams during that period, the Beavers had one home loss to Boise State in 2016 (GAG). Otherwise, there were three road losses to Boise State, two road losses to Fresno State, a bowl loss to Hawaii in Hawaii and a bowl loss to Utah State (MWC champion). The Beavers lost at Colorado State (GAG) and at Nevada and at Hawaii during the first two Jonathan Smith seasons. The Beavers won three games (two home) against Fresno State, won three home games and one bowl against Boise State. They were 4-0 vs. SDSU, 3-0 vs. New Mexico, 2-0 vs. San Jose State, 2-0 vs. UNLV, 1-0 vs. Nevada (2-0 if you count 1998, also a win against Utah State in 1998). And four home wins and one road win vs. Hawaii. They also split two games with Utah, lost a bowl to BYU and lost to the undefeated 2010 TCU team. In the past three seasons, OSU has defeated Hawaii, Boise State, Fresno State (road), San Jose State (road) and SDSU. Only two OSU teams that had eight or more wins during the past 25 seasons lost to Fresno State or Boise State. So basically the Beavers primarily lost a few road games to Boise State and Fresno State, easily the two most dominant MWC teams. You could definitely make a strong case that Boise State and Fresno State have power level football programs. So I don't agree at all that OSU specifically is seen as a G5 level program by the people who actually run other conferences. Because OSU is not a G5 level program. Performance aside, funding of the athletic department is probably most telling in terms of where a school "belongs". Not many of us are going to want to hear this, but Washington State and Oregon State rank 53rd and 54th respectively among public universities in athletic department budget. We spend $8M a year more than Cincinnati and $20 million a year less than Oklahoma State. In terms of the commitment to athletics, Oregon State kind of hovers near the bottom of the P5 schools and the top of the G5 schools, though there are no (public) G5 schools that spend more than the Pac2. We are on the bubble. That is the God's honest truth. The rankings you found are actually a few years old. In 2022-23, Oregon State was No. 50 at $98.4 million and WSU was No. 54 at $90.9 million. OSU was higher on the list than Kansas State, Cincinnati, UConn, UCF, Houston. San Diego State is easily the top G5 school at No. 51 ($96.6 million). Then it drops to Air Force ($69.4 million). Oregon State had to drop down to $91.6 million for 2024. So yeah, they are on the bubble but there's a huge gap between the bottom of the power conference level bubble and the top of the G5 schools with the exception of San Diego State. OSU is still funding at a rate that is $25-30 million higher than the best of the rest of the G5 and roughly $40 million more than Hawaii, Fresno State and Utah State. |
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Post by grayman on Sept 6, 2024 13:48:12 GMT -8
I'll take facts over opinions for $500, Alex! LOL. The reality is that they got left out of realignment because the Pac-12 broke up, so they are working to get back into a power conference. There is no factual evidence that they have dropped to the G5 level as a football program. They will play the MWC scheduling agreement games this fall and then move on in 2025, which will be much more like a power conference schedule. The Pac-12 is not a G5 conference. OSU and WSU are not G5 teams. And I doubt that Oregon State will be when it's all said and done. Fact... Pac12 broke up and 10 other teams were taken. Fact... OSU isn't P4 or G5. Fact... OSU's schedule is a top tier G5 schedule. Fact... unless the 2025 schedule has 7, 8 or 9 P4 opponents it'll again be closer to a G5 schedule. Thanks for the $500😁 Fact... Pac12 broke up and 10 other teams were taken. Duh. Fact... OSU isn't P4 or G5. I believe you denied this awhile ago, but true. Fact... OSU's schedule is a top tier G5 schedule. True. For one season. Fact... unless the 2025 schedule has 7, 8 or 9 P4 opponents it'll again be closer to a G5 schedule. Opinion. And they already have Oregon, Houston, Texas Tech, Cal and WSU (no date set) on the schedule with Fresno State. Not even close to a G5 schedule so far. Thanks for the $500😁 Talk to Alex, lol |
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