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Post by grayman on Sept 5, 2024 13:05:49 GMT -8
From what I'm reading, the Pac 12 is in a 2 year "grace period" and has been stripped of autonomous power due to not meeting membership numbers. Many assume that that stripping of autonomous powers is permanent, but I haven't seen anything from the NCAA that says it is or what will happen with autonomous power if the Pac 12 reconstitutes with new teams before the grace period ends. That info may or may not be out there, there's so much blogger/vlogger/podcast/media noise out there it's tough to find any definitive factual material on the web. If Barnes "refuses to acknowledge that", he's probably got a heck of a lot more accurate information available to him than any of us. For now the Pac 12 doesn't have autonomous rights, could that change? He'd know better than we. I'd bet there could be multiple routes to power status, including rebuilding the conference. Depending on the outcome of the ACC lawsuits and potential settlements, college football could look quite different in 2026. I'm sure Barnes is doing his best to navigate this mess. Keeping OSU in "power" status would be a feather in his cap, keeping the Pac 12 in power status would be a bigger feather. He's apparently well regarded in the AD word, and if he wanted an easier way out I'd bet that option was quietly available to him. I am still confused about what benefit there is to being "autonomous" or "power." Well, money is a huge benefit. Particularly as college football moves forward into this new era. Power conference media deals and payouts are far more lucrative for the member schools than what "lower level" schools get. It's not close. And that money helps foot the bill for all those Olympic sports and women's hoops. |
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 5, 2024 13:16:41 GMT -8
If we are P5 and have auto berth then championship game is good, if we are G6 and fighting for the 1 g6 spot, then I would not be as interested in a championship game, it would be another opportunity for your highest ranked team to take a loss, and not much upside on a win. I was thinking for the money. The only reason that the numbers to add Colorado and Utah worked out was because the Pac-12 Championship Game money put the deal over the top. The Mountain West Championship Game drew 1.26 million viewers, even though it was directly going up against the SEC Championship Game (17.52 million viewers). 9.25 million watched Washington and Oregon in the Pac-12 Championship Game. The ACC (7.03 million) and Big Ten (10.02 million) Championship Games went up against each other. The Big-12 Championship Game drew 7.89 million. Plus, historically, the Committee has hammered conferences without Championship Games. But, yeah, Championship Games tend to be worth a lot more money than your average game. If we could play a Championship Game with eight, though, I would be on board for eight, assuming we could get the nonconference opponents lined up. Money is the upside, though. Lots of money. Conferences with a Championship Game are worth a lot more than conferences without a championship game, which is why every single conference held a Championship Game last year and have held a Championship Game every season since 2018. I totally get it. My thesis that I'm putting forth here is that adding a CCG is overall penny wise and pound foolish. It's along the same vein as taking a bodybag game on the road for a couple million dollars versus paying Eastern Washington to come in for 400k. That's not to say there aren't possible advantages to taking that route, but if you look at it from the long view, it ultimately harmed the conference to cannibalize itself for money. It's a balancing act, I know. You can't play the Sisters of the Poor 11 times a year and expect to be taken very seriously, see Boise State. |
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 5, 2024 13:44:49 GMT -8
I am still confused about what benefit there is to being "autonomous" or "power." Well, money is a huge benefit. Particularly as college football moves forward into this new era. Power conference media deals and payouts are far more lucrative for the member schools than what "lower level" schools get. It's not close. And that money helps foot the bill for all those Olympic sports and women's hoops. But money is independent of whether a conference is an "autonomous" or "power" conference or not. I am asking what is the benefit to being in an "autonomous" or "power" conference, if there is no increase in money. |
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Post by 415hawaiiboy on Sept 5, 2024 13:45:57 GMT -8
I believe the following:
1) when you get a one time payout, the careful administrator will use the money conservatively because they don’t know what the future is [paying a substantial amount of the funding to the MW in fees and fees for other schools does not make sense]
2) when you get burned by a “partnership” (aka conference), you tend to be more hesitant on what kind of partnership you enter into next. [Paying a substantial amount of your life raft money for other schools that are just as hungry and potentially backstabbingly ambitious, does not make sense. Knowing they would ditch the conference if something better comes.]
3) using the life raft money to assure the people still onboard with you, that you can pay them and provide them with experiences, which might mean better scheduling, even if you have to pay more money for it - that makes sense. You have in your power the ability to craft your schedule as you see fit.
4) using the life raft money to survive a potential longer term lower revenue environment in the MW or Independence, makes sense. The key is saving the money so you can spend it on yourself.
5) using the life raft money to potentially buy into a Big 12 or ACC like Cal/Stanford/SMU did, makes sense if that scenario arises.
Rebuilding the PAC-12 without taking all the MW teams does not make sense, and limits your future ability to do #5 (when you decide to ditch the conference you helped setup). Therefore, a full merger is likely to happen if external events don’t shake things up too dramatically within the next 24 months.
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 5, 2024 13:56:25 GMT -8
Power conference/autonomy has a few basic bennies. Someone else will surely spell out the specifics.
- NCAA perks
- CFP payouts at a higher level
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Sept 5, 2024 14:05:00 GMT -8
Power conference/autonomy has a few basic bennies. Someone else will surely spell out the specifics. - NCAA perks - CFP payouts at a higher level The CFP payouts are independent of Autonomy/Power Conference affiliation. The conference payouts are spelled out in the contract. What perks are we talking about? |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 5, 2024 14:44:54 GMT -8
I believe the following: 1) when you get a one time payout, the careful administrator will use the money conservatively because they don’t know what the future is [paying a substantial amount of the funding to the MW in fees and fees for other schools does not make sense] 2) when you get burned by a “partnership” (aka conference), you tend to be more hesitant on what kind of partnership you enter into next. [Paying a substantial amount of your life raft money for other schools that are just as hungry and potentially backstabbingly ambitious, does not make sense. Knowing they would ditch the conference if something better comes.] 3) using the life raft money to assure the people still onboard with you, that you can pay them and provide them with experiences, which might mean better scheduling, even if you have to pay more money for it - that makes sense. You have in your power the ability to craft your schedule as you see fit. 4) using the life raft money to survive a potential longer term lower revenue environment in the MW or Independence, makes sense. The key is saving the money so you can spend it on yourself. 5) using the life raft money to potentially buy into a Big 12 or ACC like Cal/Stanford/SMU did, makes sense if that scenario arises. Rebuilding the PAC-12 without taking all the MW teams does not make sense, and limits your future ability to do #5 (when you decide to ditch the conference you helped setup). Therefore, a full merger is likely to happen if external events don’t shake things up too dramatically within the next 24 months. Ha, you are wasting your time trying to explain this to the guys on the MWC board. They are trying awfully hard to dislike OSU and WSU. |
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Post by 415hawaiiboy on Sept 5, 2024 15:21:02 GMT -8
I believe the following: 1) when you get a one time payout, the careful administrator will use the money conservatively because they don’t know what the future is [paying a substantial amount of the funding to the MW in fees and fees for other schools does not make sense] 2) when you get burned by a “partnership” (aka conference), you tend to be more hesitant on what kind of partnership you enter into next. [Paying a substantial amount of your life raft money for other schools that are just as hungry and potentially backstabbingly ambitious, does not make sense. Knowing they would ditch the conference if something better comes.] 3) using the life raft money to assure the people still onboard with you, that you can pay them and provide them with experiences, which might mean better scheduling, even if you have to pay more money for it - that makes sense. You have in your power the ability to craft your schedule as you see fit. 4) using the life raft money to survive a potential longer term lower revenue environment in the MW or Independence, makes sense. The key is saving the money so you can spend it on yourself. 5) using the life raft money to potentially buy into a Big 12 or ACC like Cal/Stanford/SMU did, makes sense if that scenario arises. Rebuilding the PAC-12 without taking all the MW teams does not make sense, and limits your future ability to do #5 (when you decide to ditch the conference you helped setup). Therefore, a full merger is likely to happen if external events don’t shake things up too dramatically within the next 24 months. Ha, you are wasting your time trying to explain this to the guys on the MWC board. They are trying awfully hard to dislike OSU and WSU. I think we can go a year in this thought loop and burn down any goodwill we have with each other, or think what is the most likely outcome. Unless you can tell me the PAC-2 schools can and will fund BOTH a cherry picked PAC-12 that has to pay substantial fees AND want to have the option of pulling a Cal/Stanford in a B12 or ACC (partial shares, no shares scenario) and pay an exit fee (new media partner will require compensation) then the path very likely only leads one way: full merger or independence. Just saving everyone time and goodwill amongst everyone. |
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Post by orangeattack on Sept 5, 2024 15:46:38 GMT -8
Ha, you are wasting your time trying to explain this to the guys on the MWC board. They are trying awfully hard to dislike OSU and WSU. I think we can go a year in this thought loop and burn down any goodwill we have with each other, or think what is the most likely outcome. Unless you can tell me the PAC-2 schools can and will fund BOTH a cherry picked PAC-12 that has to pay substantial fees AND want to have the option of pulling a Cal/Stanford in a B12 or ACC (partial shares, no shares scenario) and pay an exit fee (new media partner will require compensation) then the path very likely only leads one way: full merger or independence. Just saving everyone time and goodwill amongst everyone. The best path forward for OSU/WSU is to remain in a Power 5(4) conference. Surely that can't be difficult to understand - maybe for the fans, but not the administration. They'd love for OSU/WSU to make it a permanent partnership but I can't see any scenario where the commitment not being made over the next year burns goodwill. |
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Post by 415hawaiiboy on Sept 5, 2024 16:07:34 GMT -8
I think we can go a year in this thought loop and burn down any goodwill we have with each other, or think what is the most likely outcome. Unless you can tell me the PAC-2 schools can and will fund BOTH a cherry picked PAC-12 that has to pay substantial fees AND want to have the option of pulling a Cal/Stanford in a B12 or ACC (partial shares, no shares scenario) and pay an exit fee (new media partner will require compensation) then the path very likely only leads one way: full merger or independence. Just saving everyone time and goodwill amongst everyone. The best path forward for OSU/WSU is to remain in a Power 5(4) conference. Surely that can't be difficult to understand - maybe for the fans, but not the administration. They'd love for OSU/WSU to make it a permanent partnership but I can't see any scenario where the commitment not being made over the next year burns goodwill. I think goodwill being burned amongst fans and somehow that creeps into the media and perceptions. I care more about the MW message board fans talking in circles for a year, and disunity. It appears the PAC-2 is seeking independence at least for 2025 and the MW saying “good luck” and won’t help them. If people think this is the case then they will speculate less (and maybe move on). |
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Post by grayman on Sept 5, 2024 16:31:39 GMT -8
The best path forward for OSU/WSU is to remain in a Power 5(4) conference. Surely that can't be difficult to understand - maybe for the fans, but not the administration. They'd love for OSU/WSU to make it a permanent partnership but I can't see any scenario where the commitment not being made over the next year burns goodwill. I think goodwill being burned amongst fans and somehow that creeps into the media and perceptions. I care more about the MW message board fans talking in circles for a year, and disunity. It appears the PAC-2 is seeking independence at least for 2025 and the MW saying “good luck” and won’t help them. If people think this is the case then they will speculate less (and maybe move on). Are you talking about goodwill among OSU/Pac-12 fans or between Pac-12 and MWC fans? If it's OSU fans, I think there's a big difference between disagreeing on a message board about what might happen to the program in realignment and actually coming together to root for the team. As far as the MWC fans, I'm sure a bunch of them are upset that the Pac-12 doesn't want to continue the scheduling agreement for 2025 and spend another $14 million or more and push the poaching penalties back even more. Oh well. |
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Post by rgeorge on Sept 5, 2024 16:53:54 GMT -8
Power conference/autonomy has a few basic bennies. Someone else will surely spell out the specifics. - NCAA perks - CFP payouts at a higher level The CFP payouts are independent of Autonomy/Power Conference affiliation. The conference payouts are spelled out in the contract. What perks are we talking about? CFP payouts are "spelled out" but most definitely are determined by being in a Power conference. Just as before Power conferences received a larger "base" payout. And, the new contract even separates out the Power conferences even more from each other and of course the G5 or independents get far far less. Autonomy movement by the P5 schools began in like 2014 to basically have some leeway in making some of their own legislation that fell within NCAA guidelines. Other schools could choose to adopt or not. Basically the P5 schools could afford to offer more than other schools could. The biggest items I can recall involved increasing cost of attendance stipends. Others involved medical coverages, insurance coverages, time demand on athletes, ability to pay for families to attend games, dead period for workouts and recruiting, and loosening player agent contact rules. Not all were changed and adopted, but the now P4 schools can offer benefits to athletes that not all schools can. I did not look for current levels of what exist, but had this old article bookmarked: www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11321551/ncaa-board-votes-allow-autonomy-five-power-conferences |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on Sept 5, 2024 16:59:01 GMT -8
I think we can go a year in this thought loop and burn down any goodwill we have with each other, or think what is the most likely outcome. Unless you can tell me the PAC-2 schools can and will fund BOTH a cherry picked PAC-12 that has to pay substantial fees AND want to have the option of pulling a Cal/Stanford in a B12 or ACC (partial shares, no shares scenario) and pay an exit fee (new media partner will require compensation) then the path very likely only leads one way: full merger or independence. Just saving everyone time and goodwill amongst everyone. Surely that can't be difficult to understand - maybe for the fans, but not the administration. They'd love for OSU/WSU to make it a permanent partnership but I can't see any scenario where the commitment not being made over the next year burns goodwill. Just can't see that happening. Even if we get some kind of scheduling alliance with the Big 12 (or the ACC, which makes no sense), WSU and OSU are not going to receive a full share of CFP revenue like a Big 12 member. No one is going to take a smaller piece of the pie to include us. And that's the only real advantage of being in a P4 conference (which we really wouldn't be, we'd be an affiliate with no benefits) over a merged Pac-2/MWC. And, we'd still be in the WCC for basketball, volleyball, softball and any other sports that apply. And the MWC (with us and Wazzu) is superior to the WCC (with us and Wazzu) in every non-football sport. |
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Post by speakthetruth on Sept 5, 2024 17:07:13 GMT -8
If we and wazoo don't get into a power league there will be a lawsuit. Remember this if it has to happen. Just saying.
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Post by Judge Smails on Sept 5, 2024 17:12:53 GMT -8
If we and wazoo don't get into a power league there will be a lawsuit. Remember this if it has to happen. Just saying. No there won’t. For what? What are you going to prove? It will never happen. |
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