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Post by Mike84 on Oct 18, 2016 18:05:47 GMT -8
It's possible I've never said (not on a message board at least) the words "I hope I'm wrong". I've never seen the advantage in publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and somehow making it OK by adding "I hope I'm wrong". Or worse, publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and then somehow making it OK by adding "And I know I'm right". Back on the Pure Orange board I butted heads with those who seemed to want to find and post only the negatives about Riley, his staff, and his teams. Eventually, however, I stopped because I felt vastly outnumbered and some whom I respected explained to me that they were doing what they felt was right by loudly, publicly, calling for changes to be made. I didn't want Riley gone partially because I didn't want to go through the emotional turmoil of starting over again with a new coach. Unless your team is flying high and you keep the same philosophy, you don't just change coaches and have everything work wonderfully from day one. Basically every new coach in the Pac-12, from Rodriguez at UA, to Mora at UCLA, to Dykes at Cal, to Leach at WSU, to Petersen at UW, has come in and made changes that created doubts within the existing players, the fans, and the media. Players left, things started out poorly, and every one of these coaches had somebody at some point calling for his head. In some cases, no matter how celebrated the hire was at the time, it just may ultimately not work out (like maybe is happening with RichRod at UA). In other cases, no matter how much doubt was expressed in the rebuilding process, the guy who seemed like a great hire really does end up being a great hire (like Petersen at UW). No matter what, though, you weather the turmoil. You give the coach 3, 4, or 5 years to get it done. There is NO advantage to loudly, publicly, predicting failure after 1 or 2 seasons. It doesn't help morale amongst the fans. It doesn't help ticket sales. It doesn't help recruiting. It doesn't result in the "change" that you may so strongly believe is called for so soon. I think most fans get this, just like most UW fans knew that it was just a matter of time with Petersen. Some, a few, however, seem to want to jump on the (negative) bandwagon early. They make it seem as if they would rather be right than see the new HC be a success. I don't understand that. Never have, never will. Of course, that's just my opinion. [That's sort of like saying "I hope I'm wrong".  ] Go Beavs! Mike '84 |
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Post by atownbeaver on Oct 18, 2016 19:48:49 GMT -8
It's possible I've never said (not on a message board at least) the words "I hope I'm wrong". I've never seen the advantage in publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and somehow making it OK by adding "I hope I'm wrong". Or worse, publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and then somehow making it OK by adding "And I know I'm right". Back on the Pure Orange board I butted heads with those who seemed to want to find and post only the negatives about Riley, his staff, and his teams. Eventually, however, I stopped because I felt vastly outnumbered and some whom I respected explained to me that they were doing what they felt was right by loudly, publicly, calling for changes to be made. I didn't want Riley gone partially because I didn't want to go through the emotional turmoil of starting over again with a new coach. Unless your team is flying high and you keep the same philosophy, you don't just change coaches and have everything work wonderfully from day one. Basically every new coach in the Pac-12, from Rodriguez at UA, to Mora at UCLA, to Dykes at Cal, to Leach at WSU, to Petersen at UW, has come in and made changes that created doubts within the existing players, the fans, and the media. Players left, things started out poorly, and every one of these coaches had somebody at some point calling for his head. In some cases, no matter how celebrated the hire was at the time, it just may ultimately not work out (like maybe is happening with RichRod at UA). In other cases, no matter how much doubt was expressed in the rebuilding process, the guy who seemed like a great hire really does end up being a great hire (like Petersen at UW). No matter what, though, you weather the turmoil. You give the coach 3, 4, or 5 years to get it done. There is NO advantage to loudly, publicly, predicting failure after 1 or 2 seasons. It doesn't help morale amongst the fans. It doesn't help ticket sales. It doesn't help recruiting. It doesn't result in the "change" that you may so strongly believe is called for so soon. I think most fans get this, just like most UW fans knew that it was just a matter of time with Petersen. Some, a few, however, seem to want to jump on the (negative) bandwagon early. They make it seem as if they would rather be right than see the new HC be a success. I don't understand that. Never have, never will. Of course, that's just my opinion. [That's sort of like saying "I hope I'm wrong". ] Go Beavs! Mike '84 This is a good post. Lemme give a little rebuttal. As I am certainly not shy about being an Andersen skeptic, and I have said "I hope I am wrong" a few dozen times. First, I absolutely, 100%, truly hope I am wrong when I voice my concerns and doubts and various issues. I have no want to be right. What is my reward? a team in the dumpster looking for a head coach. That is what. not exactly a tropical vacation if you know what I mean. I say doubts and concerns, because i am pretty sure I have never outright said "he will fail". I just bring up things I don't like. There is a difference. Second, message boards are built for the purpose of discussion. I like to talk football. I like, in particular, the nitty gritty of schemes and x's and o's and philosophy of playcalling. that is good stuff. And, as that follows, I have my opinions as to what things work best. what happens if the coach is not doing what I think is best? just shut up? I mean after all, I am not the person making two and a half mil to coach this team? but it is an honest question. If I don't like the play calling, if I don't like the offense, or the defense or that this or the that, am I to be quiet? take the, "if you have nothing good to say, don't say anything at all" approach? It is hard to talk X's and O's in a positive fashion when you have some 1 for 20 passing games under your belt. Building on this point of discussion, message boards aren't just about talking, for many it is about catharsis. It is about the rant. It is about having somebody to talk to when you are both happy or angry. Ultimately it is why we are here right? lets be honest, if we were only limited to conversations that were "approved by dear leader"-if you catch my drift- then how engaging or stimulating would this board be? How many "tough game beavs, but good effort, go get them next week!" posts can you make before you just stop posting? Message board can be tough sledding when things are going rough. And there is really only one cure for it... winning. But one thing is important... we should all take care to try our best to be civil about anything we talk about. Ultimately we are all on the same boat, and we all want the same thing: a winning football team that we are proud of. So, I wouldn't rush to judge the way another person blows some steam off. Of all the ways in the world one can do that, a message board is probably one of the most mundane and harmless. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 18, 2016 19:51:25 GMT -8
It's possible I've never said (not on a message board at least) the words "I hope I'm wrong". I've never seen the advantage in publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and somehow making it OK by adding "I hope I'm wrong". Or worse, publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and then somehow making it OK by adding "And I know I'm right". Back on the Pure Orange board I butted heads with those who seemed to want to find and post only the negatives about Riley, his staff, and his teams. Eventually, however, I stopped because I felt vastly outnumbered and some whom I respected explained to me that they were doing what they felt was right by loudly, publicly, calling for changes to be made. I didn't want Riley gone partially because I didn't want to go through the emotional turmoil of starting over again with a new coach. Unless your team is flying high and you keep the same philosophy, you don't just change coaches and have everything work wonderfully from day one. Basically every new coach in the Pac-12, from Rodriguez at UA, to Mora at UCLA, to Dykes at Cal, to Leach at WSU, to Petersen at UW, has come in and made changes that created doubts within the existing players, the fans, and the media. Players left, things started out poorly, and every one of these coaches had somebody at some point calling for his head. In some cases, no matter how celebrated the hire was at the time, it just may ultimately not work out (like maybe is happening with RichRod at UA). In other cases, no matter how much doubt was expressed in the rebuilding process, the guy who seemed like a great hire really does end up being a great hire (like Petersen at UW). No matter what, though, you weather the turmoil. You give the coach 3, 4, or 5 years to get it done. There is NO advantage to loudly, publicly, predicting failure after 1 or 2 seasons. It doesn't help morale amongst the fans. It doesn't help ticket sales. It doesn't help recruiting. It doesn't result in the "change" that you may so strongly believe is called for so soon. I think most fans get this, just like most UW fans knew that it was just a matter of time with Petersen. Some, a few, however, seem to want to jump on the (negative) bandwagon early. They make it seem as if they would rather be right than see the new HC be a success. I don't understand that. Never have, never will. Of course, that's just my opinion. [That's sort of like saying "I hope I'm wrong". ] Go Beavs! Mike '84 Hmmmm... sort of a "Pollyanna" approach. As one on here who has pointed out negatives/concerns I see in GA's programs I have never wished him to fail. So, lumping in criticism as wishing failure upon someone is quite a leap. Actually far bigger jump than stating a critique and fear of failure, then hoping one is wrong. No one here wants to start over. In fact, for many my guess is that beginning anew is part of the rational for posting critiques/opinions/negatives about a staff... they want it to not be so, but can't simply ignore it either. Basically every one on this board wants OSU to more successful (in every sport and academic area) than it currently is. Some people are glass half full types, some are glass half empty. Those that have done much coaching (even teaching) at the HS level or above are typically glass half empty as you constantly adjusting, remediation, compensating, motivating due to failure or weakness in a physical or mental skill. The "glass" is perpetually in the process of improvement and the only way most improvements occur is with failure and remediation. Unfortunately, as a poster you can see the "failures/weaknesses", but have no recourse in the "fix". However, like a coach/teacher whose job it is to point out such things, it certainly does not mean you wish the student/athlete to fail. And, like many students/athletes I believe GA created more of a mess than there was to begin with in several ways. He not only needs to recruit better players to run this type of system, but recruit against far better programs that run this popular system to get players that are true difference makers. He also needs to show the continued ability to make staff adjustments and maybe begin to bring in some expertise that is not part of his 'personal' coaching tree. That's my opinion and it in now way ever has been forwarded in a manner where I've said GA should be fired or I hope he falls flat on his face. PS- never ever heard of a recruit changing his mind or not picking a school over a fan message board. And, if any ever did, not a player you'd want in your program. |
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Post by beav2007 on Oct 18, 2016 19:55:23 GMT -8
Oh Mike84, I have missed your wisdom and perspective!
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Post by elmirabeaver on Oct 18, 2016 21:27:23 GMT -8
Mike, it is great to see you posting! Keep it up!
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Post by beavs6 on Oct 19, 2016 8:59:13 GMT -8
It's possible I've never said (not on a message board at least) the words "I hope I'm wrong". I've never seen the advantage in publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and somehow making it OK by adding "I hope I'm wrong". Or worse, publicly predicting the failure of my college's teams or coaches and then somehow making it OK by adding "And I know I'm right". Back on the Pure Orange board I butted heads with those who seemed to want to find and post only the negatives about Riley, his staff, and his teams. Eventually, however, I stopped because I felt vastly outnumbered and some whom I respected explained to me that they were doing what they felt was right by loudly, publicly, calling for changes to be made. I didn't want Riley gone partially because I didn't want to go through the emotional turmoil of starting over again with a new coach. Unless your team is flying high and you keep the same philosophy, you don't just change coaches and have everything work wonderfully from day one. Basically every new coach in the Pac-12, from Rodriguez at UA, to Mora at UCLA, to Dykes at Cal, to Leach at WSU, to Petersen at UW, has come in and made changes that created doubts within the existing players, the fans, and the media. Players left, things started out poorly, and every one of these coaches had somebody at some point calling for his head. In some cases, no matter how celebrated the hire was at the time, it just may ultimately not work out (like maybe is happening with RichRod at UA). In other cases, no matter how much doubt was expressed in the rebuilding process, the guy who seemed like a great hire really does end up being a great hire (like Petersen at UW). No matter what, though, you weather the turmoil. You give the coach 3, 4, or 5 years to get it done. There is NO advantage to loudly, publicly, predicting failure after 1 or 2 seasons. It doesn't help morale amongst the fans. It doesn't help ticket sales. It doesn't help recruiting. It doesn't result in the "change" that you may so strongly believe is called for so soon. I think most fans get this, just like most UW fans knew that it was just a matter of time with Petersen. Some, a few, however, seem to want to jump on the (negative) bandwagon early. They make it seem as if they would rather be right than see the new HC be a success. I don't understand that. Never have, never will. Of course, that's just my opinion. [That's sort of like saying "I hope I'm wrong". ] Go Beavs! Mike '84 Hmmmm... sort of a "Pollyanna" approach. As one on here who has pointed out negatives/concerns I see in GA's programs I have never wished him to fail. So, lumping in criticism as wishing failure upon someone is quite a leap. Actually far bigger jump than stating a critique and fear of failure, then hoping one is wrong. No one here wants to start over. In fact, for many my guess is that beginning anew is part of the rational for posting critiques/opinions/negatives about a staff... they want it to not be so, but can't simply ignore it either. Basically every one on this board wants OSU to more successful (in every sport and academic area) than it currently is. Some people are glass half full types, some are glass half empty. Those that have done much coaching (even teaching) at the HS level or above are typically glass half empty as you constantly adjusting, remediation, compensating, motivating due to failure or weakness in a physical or mental skill. The "glass" is perpetually in the process of improvement and the only way most improvements occur is with failure and remediation. Unfortunately, as a poster you can see the "failures/weaknesses", but have no recourse in the "fix". However, like a coach/teacher whose job it is to point out such things, it certainly does not mean you wish the student/athlete to fail. And, like many students/athletes I believe GA created more of a mess than there was to begin with in several ways. He not only needs to recruit better players to run this type of system, but recruit against far better programs that run this popular system to get players that are true difference makers. He also needs to show the continued ability to make staff adjustments and maybe begin to bring in some expertise that is not part of his 'personal' coaching tree. That's my opinion and it in now way ever has been forwarded in a manner where I've said GA should be fired or I hope he falls flat on his face. PS- never ever heard of a recruit changing his mind or not picking a school over a fan message board. And, if any ever did, not a player you'd want in your program. ***Dislike button pressed. I will explain 1 reason why. "Some people are glass half full types, some are glass half empty. Those that have done much coaching (even teaching) at the HS level or above are typically glass half empty as you constantly adjusting, remediation, compensating, motivating due to failure or weakness in a physical or mental skill. The "glass" is perpetually in the process of improvement and the only way most improvements occur is with failure and remediation." There are many positive people in teaching and coaching in the HS level and above that are glass half full types. You use this statement to try to lend credence and support to your way of thinking. To validate it. For a Bill Belichick (my example of someone who appears to be the half empty type) there is a Pete Carroll.(my example of someone with a glass half full type)---If you want to discuss the difference between the two and who is the better coach, how about I use Vince Lombardi.(all of his quotes that hold up over time would qualify as a half-full type in my opinion) There are ways to give positive criticism and correction without being negative. I guess what I am saying is most of us are trying to improve who we are as people, athletes, spouses, parents, children...whatever. That takes being able to look at what we do well and what we can improve on. Being a successful teacher/coach at the HS level or above (what you are implying) has nothing to do with being a positive (half-full or players coach...my words) or negative (half-empty or disciplinary coach...my words again). We as individuals tend to see things through our own paradigm. |
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 19, 2016 12:33:46 GMT -8
Hmmmm... sort of a "Pollyanna" approach. As one on here who has pointed out negatives/concerns I see in GA's programs I have never wished him to fail. So, lumping in criticism as wishing failure upon someone is quite a leap. Actually far bigger jump than stating a critique and fear of failure, then hoping one is wrong. No one here wants to start over. In fact, for many my guess is that beginning anew is part of the rational for posting critiques/opinions/negatives about a staff... they want it to not be so, but can't simply ignore it either. Basically every one on this board wants OSU to more successful (in every sport and academic area) than it currently is. Some people are glass half full types, some are glass half empty. Those that have done much coaching (even teaching) at the HS level or above are typically glass half empty as you constantly adjusting, remediation, compensating, motivating due to failure or weakness in a physical or mental skill. The "glass" is perpetually in the process of improvement and the only way most improvements occur is with failure and remediation. Unfortunately, as a poster you can see the "failures/weaknesses", but have no recourse in the "fix". However, like a coach/teacher whose job it is to point out such things, it certainly does not mean you wish the student/athlete to fail. And, like many students/athletes I believe GA created more of a mess than there was to begin with in several ways. He not only needs to recruit better players to run this type of system, but recruit against far better programs that run this popular system to get players that are true difference makers. He also needs to show the continued ability to make staff adjustments and maybe begin to bring in some expertise that is not part of his 'personal' coaching tree. That's my opinion and it in now way ever has been forwarded in a manner where I've said GA should be fired or I hope he falls flat on his face. PS- never ever heard of a recruit changing his mind or not picking a school over a fan message board. And, if any ever did, not a player you'd want in your program. ***Dislike button pressed. I will explain 1 reason why. "Some people are glass half full types, some are glass half empty. Those that have done much coaching (even teaching) at the HS level or above are typically glass half empty as you constantly adjusting, remediation, compensating, motivating due to failure or weakness in a physical or mental skill. The "glass" is perpetually in the process of improvement and the only way most improvements occur is with failure and remediation." There are many positive people in teaching and coaching in the HS level and above that are glass half full types. You use this statement to try to lend credence and support to your way of thinking. To validate it. For a Bill Belichick (my example of someone who appears to be the half empty type) there is a Pete Carroll.(my example of someone with a glass half full type)---If you want to discuss the difference between the two and who is the better coach, how about I use Vince Lombardi.(all of his quotes that hold up over time would qualify as a half-full type in my opinion) There are ways to give positive criticism and correction without being negative. I guess what I am saying is most of us are trying to improve who we are as people, athletes, spouses, parents, children...whatever. That takes being able to look at what we do well and what we can improve on. Being a successful teacher/coach at the HS level or above (what you are implying) has nothing to do with being a positive (half-full or players coach...my words) or negative (half-empty or disciplinary coach...my words again). We as individuals tend to see things through our own paradigm. You truly are the expert of turning words into your own specific meaning to prove your point. There is no discussing with an inherently close minded person. ALL criticisms are basically glass half empty... it why you point them out and find ways to improve those who need it. In your case I'm sure not much works. How you deal with said criticisms is indeed a personal take and how the remediation is levied can have a positive or negative vibe.
As for being successful... there are successes found in each or the two camps. And, most travel back and forth between the two. Being more old school you learn not all people respond to a swift kick in the arse. So again you take things and twist them to try to make some kind of point here... not sure what it is other than to just be argumentative.
As for you meaningless use of examples and name dropping... since you were never in the said locker rooms and at practice I would say you need to actually find some video of your glass half full "icons". I'll just take Vince for one... very old school... could get very harsh/demanding, but never personally demeaning... "dumb as a plant", "are you playing for the other team" were some of his practice sayings... not very half full, but not full of swearing as you hear a lot today.
You do realize most quotes are for public consumption and summarize a philosophy and belief system and not what really is said and goes on in the everyday situations at practice and in the locker room? Right??? Vince did not stand around at practice giving these celebrated quotes each day...
LMAO... at least you are consistent.
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Post by beavs6 on Oct 19, 2016 15:04:04 GMT -8
***Dislike button pressed. I will explain 1 reason why. "Some people are glass half full types, some are glass half empty. Those that have done much coaching (even teaching) at the HS level or above are typically glass half empty as you constantly adjusting, remediation, compensating, motivating due to failure or weakness in a physical or mental skill. The "glass" is perpetually in the process of improvement and the only way most improvements occur is with failure and remediation." There are many positive people in teaching and coaching in the HS level and above that are glass half full types. You use this statement to try to lend credence and support to your way of thinking. To validate it. For a Bill Belichick (my example of someone who appears to be the half empty type) there is a Pete Carroll.(my example of someone with a glass half full type)---If you want to discuss the difference between the two and who is the better coach, how about I use Vince Lombardi.(all of his quotes that hold up over time would qualify as a half-full type in my opinion) There are ways to give positive criticism and correction without being negative. I guess what I am saying is most of us are trying to improve who we are as people, athletes, spouses, parents, children...whatever. That takes being able to look at what we do well and what we can improve on. Being a successful teacher/coach at the HS level or above (what you are implying) has nothing to do with being a positive (half-full or players coach...my words) or negative (half-empty or disciplinary coach...my words again). We as individuals tend to see things through our own paradigm. You truly are the expert of turning words into your own specific meaning to prove your point. There is no discussing with an inherently close minded person. ALL criticisms are basically glass half empty... it why you point them out and find ways to improve those who need it. In your case I'm sure not much works. How you deal with said criticisms is indeed a personal take and how the remediation is levied can have a positive or negative vibe.
As for being successful... there are successes found in each or the two camps. And, most travel back and forth between the two. Being more old school you learn not all people respond to a swift kick in the arse. So again you take things and twist them to try to make some kind of point here... not sure what it is other than to just be argumentative.
As for you meaningless use of examples and name dropping... since you were never in the said locker rooms and at practice I would say you need to actually find some video of your glass half full "icons". I'll just take Vince for one... very old school... could get very harsh/demanding, but never personally demeaning... "dumb as a plant", "are you playing for the other team" were some of his practice sayings... not very half full, but not full of swearing as you hear a lot today.
You do realize most quotes are for public consumption and summarize a philosophy and belief system and not what really is said and goes on in the everyday situations at practice and in the locker room? Right??? Vince did not stand around at practice giving these celebrated quotes each day...
LMAO... at least you are consistent.
No argument. Just different opinion. I explained myself pretty succinctly. You stated most coaches and teachers at the HS level and above are glass half-empty by nature. I disagree. You even now state that people move between the two. I would agree. My main point is you seem to bring a negative set of lenses that you choose to portray on this board. There are lots of examples that I don't choose to run down. (Look at your latest recruiting board reply...I only know because I just read it) I tend to try to look at the positives when I think about my alma mater and her athletics. I have enough outside forces (mostly uck honks) that choose to grind on me about the negatives. A wise man once explained to me that if Peter has a problem with John. And Peter has a problem with Nick. And Peter has a problem with Sam. And Peter has a problem with Ben...who or what is really the problem? To keep on the OP...Mike84, I cannot really comprehend why people would choose to be so vocally and adamantly negative-especially at this juncture in the game. Do I wish some things had been handled differently? Hell yes. Is there ALWAYS a better way to do things, especially with hind sight? Hell yes again. It is what it is. I think it is way to early in the cycle to be sharpening pitchforks and collecting tar/feathers. |
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Post by Mike84 on Oct 19, 2016 21:44:19 GMT -8
atownbeaver and baseba1111, thank you for your rebuttals. I should clarify a couple of things... I didn't mean to say that saying "I hope I'm wrong" is the worst thing a poster can do. I was using it more as an indication of an Eeyore way of looking at things. "Our flight is late. We'll probably miss our connection and our whole vacation will be ruined. I hope I'm wrong, but...". How much fun is it to hang out with that person? They're just a depressing person to be around and they seem to think that adding "I hope I"m wrong" somehow makes it better. It doesn't. Certainly a person can hope they are wrong. They can hope they are wrong that the Beavers are likely to lose an upcoming game. They can hope they are wrong that it's likely to be a losing season. But, there's usually a way to look at things or to phrase things that doesn't need something thrown in at the end to make it seem less negative. It's a choice of attitude, in my opinion. I've looked back at some of your posts, atownbeaver, and I don't think you have a negative attitude. If you've said, "I hope I"m wrong" a lot recently, I imagine it was said with the best intentions. You don't seem like the person I described above who would ruin the vacation with their negative waves. I also should have been more clear that I wasn't saying we shouldn't discuss things that aren't going well or to talk about how things could be better or to give constructive criticism. I personally tend to stay quiet if the only things I can think of to say are negative but not everybody is that way. Especially not in the catharsis after a loss. My point was that we're 1.5 seasons into a new coach...a coach most of us were darn happy to get. Whether we felt that fans should have been wanting to "chase off" Mike Riley or not, we are in the process of building under a new coach. We will certainly criticize some of what he does (constructively, hopefully). We will almost certainly want quicker positive results. But there's no benefit, in my opinion, to already predicting that GA's chances of success are slim. There's no benefit, in my opinion, to seeking out and sharing reasons to doubt GA's qualifications. There's no benefit, in my opinion, to deciding that pessimism is more realistic than optimism. atownbeaver, you already said it best in an earlier post, "We are all in this boat together, might as well all row in the same direction." Go Beavs! Mike '84 |
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Post by touchdownbeavers on Oct 19, 2016 23:14:04 GMT -8
Mike 84. You have been a thoughtful poster for years and years. However, your posts are so well thought out, this one seems to have sprung its roots and was written after the Colorado game. I don't think anyone is calling for Coach A's head after the California and Utah games. Of course I am guilty too. I was convinced the Cubs were going to the World Series, and perhaps I only read 10% of this board every10 days or so.
Anyway. Go Cubs. Go Beavers.
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Post by baseba1111 on Oct 19, 2016 23:14:18 GMT -8
You truly are the expert of turning words into your own specific meaning to prove your point. There is no discussing with an inherently close minded person. ALL criticisms are basically glass half empty... it why you point them out and find ways to improve those who need it. In your case I'm sure not much works. How you deal with said criticisms is indeed a personal take and how the remediation is levied can have a positive or negative vibe.
As for being successful... there are successes found in each or the two camps. And, most travel back and forth between the two. Being more old school you learn not all people respond to a swift kick in the arse. So again you take things and twist them to try to make some kind of point here... not sure what it is other than to just be argumentative.
As for you meaningless use of examples and name dropping... since you were never in the said locker rooms and at practice I would say you need to actually find some video of your glass half full "icons". I'll just take Vince for one... very old school... could get very harsh/demanding, but never personally demeaning... "dumb as a plant", "are you playing for the other team" were some of his practice sayings... not very half full, but not full of swearing as you hear a lot today.
You do realize most quotes are for public consumption and summarize a philosophy and belief system and not what really is said and goes on in the everyday situations at practice and in the locker room? Right??? Vince did not stand around at practice giving these celebrated quotes each day...
LMAO... at least you are consistent.
No argument. Just different opinion. I explained myself pretty succinctly. You stated most coaches and teachers at the HS level and above are glass half-empty by nature. I disagree. You even now state that people move between the two. I would agree. My main point is you seem to bring a negative set of lenses that you choose to portray on this board. There are lots of examples that I don't choose to run down. (Look at your latest recruiting board reply...I only know because I just read it) I tend to try to look at the positives when I think about my alma mater and her athletics. I have enough outside forces (mostly uck honks) that choose to grind on me about the negatives. A wise man once explained to me that if Peter has a problem with John. And Peter has a problem with Nick. And Peter has a problem with Sam. And Peter has a problem with Ben...who or what is really the problem? To keep on the OP...Mike84, I cannot really comprehend why people would choose to be so vocally and adamantly negative-especially at this juncture in the game. Do I wish some things had been handled differently? Hell yes. Is there ALWAYS a better way to do things, especially with hind sight? Hell yes again. It is what it is. I think it is way to early in the cycle to be sharpening pitchforks and collecting tar/feathers. *Mike84... thank you for the posts and this reply is in know related to your initial or follow up posting. IF you ever could stay on point without the additional soliloquy I'd be speechless... again you simply chose to take words out of context or believe your definition of a phrase like "glass half empty" is the only interpretation. But, as per my example, there are far more "mistakes" made as athletes and students do not come as finished products. Hence, pointing out, mentoring, offering multiple remediation processes is a "half empty" process. To improve you have to recognize and point out weaknesses... while at the same time extolling strengths. "I explained myself pretty succinctly."A wise man once shared with me, "... if you have to keep explaining you have no point to begin with... and there is really no need as your friends do not need explanations, and your enemies won't believe them." Hence, your "adamantly negative" rebuttals to my posts are really meaningless unless you enjoy typing and/or seek approval from others who might agree. It's a message board with various viewpoints, you might want to get used to it. You seem to have a very clear idea on how others should live their lives, I'm hoping you have as clear of view for yourself?? So ON Point... negative discourse about coaches, colleagues, bosses, other family members, etc. happens. Heck, I bet ya people say negative things about the President... I mean the President of the US of A!!! Holy GAWD... hang 'em. How in the he!! can we let them undermine are entire way or life and democracy itself by saying negative things about a duly elected official. This boards represents a minuscule amount of people, so although "public", it's not consumed by many, and not real earth shattering to those who do. On top of that most coaches expect it, and they themselves are their own harshest critics... very glass half "empty" when they reassess their performances after each game. I would also bet their are some glass half empty folks wandering the halls on the ADs office, as no matter the cause, when butts aren't in the seats on a consistent basis there are unhappy campers. So... the point... there is a lot more to be concerned about than negative remarks about this staff and what effects it has or why people would do such a horrible thing! Although I know you'd never argue... just state a new and differing opinion... |
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Post by TheGlove on Oct 20, 2016 9:02:33 GMT -8
I only read 10% of this board every10 days or so. Looks like you need to step up your commitment.  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2016 18:45:28 GMT -8
atownbeaver and baseba1111, thank you for your rebuttals. I should clarify a couple of things... I didn't mean to say that saying "I hope I'm wrong" is the worst thing a poster can do. I was using it more as an indication of an Eeyore way of looking at things. "Our flight is late. We'll probably miss our connection and our whole vacation will be ruined. I hope I'm wrong, but...". How much fun is it to hang out with that person? They're just a depressing person to be around and they seem to think that adding "I hope I"m wrong" somehow makes it better. It doesn't. Certainly a person can hope they are wrong. They can hope they are wrong that the Beavers are likely to lose an upcoming game. They can hope they are wrong that it's likely to be a losing season. But, there's usually a way to look at things or to phrase things that doesn't need something thrown in at the end to make it seem less negative. It's a choice of attitude, in my opinion. I've looked back at some of your posts, atownbeaver, and I don't think you have a negative attitude. If you've said, "I hope I"m wrong" a lot recently, I imagine it was said with the best intentions. You don't seem like the person I described above who would ruin the vacation with their negative waves. I also should have been more clear that I wasn't saying we shouldn't discuss things that aren't going well or to talk about how things could be better or to give constructive criticism. I personally tend to stay quiet if the only things I can think of to say are negative but not everybody is that way. Especially not in the catharsis after a loss. My point was that we're 1.5 seasons into a new coach...a coach most of us were darn happy to get. Whether we felt that fans should have been wanting to "chase off" Mike Riley or not, we are in the process of building under a new coach. We will certainly criticize some of what he does (constructively, hopefully). We will almost certainly want quicker positive results. But there's no benefit, in my opinion, to already predicting that GA's chances of success are slim. There's no benefit, in my opinion, to seeking out and sharing reasons to doubt GA's qualifications. There's no benefit, in my opinion, to deciding that pessimism is more realistic than optimism. atownbeaver, you already said it best in an earlier post, "We are all in this boat together, might as well all row in the same direction." Go Beavs! Mike '84 Mike84, I'm not saying you singlehandedly destroyed the pure orange servers with your endless tomes but I'm saying it's a possibility. Pith is a powerful weapon man. Get in, get out. Make your point, make it quickly, and then wait before making another one. There I told you how to post. You made me do it:-) I want to read your posts but I've got War and Peace first in line. |
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