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Post by jimbeav on May 22, 2024 8:47:14 GMT -8
Oregonian article about an informal team meeting that Canham had, where he laid everything out on the table, and gave his reassurance that he wasn't going anywhere, as did all the assistants. www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2024/05/key-oregon-state-baseball-players-excited-about-beavers-future-plan-to-stick-around-and-build-on-success.htmlAnd in return, the players are on board, with many publicly saying they have no intention of transferring. It's tempting to wonder how our other programs might have fared if something similar were done, instead of just sticking to the standard "one day at a time mantra". Though to be fair, as has been pointed out here many times, college baseball is a different animal, and Mitch had a lot more positive upside to sell. I also think the aspect of leadership and their decisions come into play. People follow leaders, and in many ways, the football and WBB implosions were a product of leader choices. Smith set the tone in football, and TVO set the tone in WBB. If either had made different choices, stuck around, and advocated for the program, who knows how different things could have ended up. So a hearty thank you to Mitch Canham for setting the proper tone, openly advocating for OSU, and doing all he can to keep this program on stable footing... |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on May 22, 2024 10:30:49 GMT -8
Unlike baseball, I don't think basketball, volleyball or soccer were given the choice whether to remain indy, join the WCC or the MWC. That decision was made for them.
As far as the players go, I'll reserve judgment until school starts next fall. Too much can happen in the interim to think that some who say they are staying won't end up leaving.
And I am not sold at all that being independent is the right choice for baseball. But that's the decision we made, so I'll live with it.
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ftd
Sophomore
"I think real leaders show up when times are hard." Trent Bray 11/29/2023
Posts: 1,886
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Post by ftd on May 22, 2024 11:25:20 GMT -8
Fool me once...
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Post by flyfishinbeav on May 22, 2024 11:30:41 GMT -8
Yea until I see the schedule, and roster next season, I'm gonna assume anything is possible.
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Post by osubeaver2018 on May 22, 2024 11:35:39 GMT -8
Unlike baseball, I don't think basketball, volleyball or soccer were given the choice whether to remain indy, join the WCC or the MWC. That decision was made for them. As far as the players go, I'll reserve judgment until school starts next fall. Too much can happen in the interim to think that some who say they are staying won't end up leaving. And I am not sold at all that being independent is the right choice for baseball. But that's the decision we made, so I'll live with it. Being independent at least gives us a chance to set our own path and use our brand to the best of our ability. MWC or WCC wouldn't have been a death sentence but it definitely would've hamstrung us. I don't think it was much of a decision to make, independent was the best option out there. How it works out though, remains to be seen I agree. |
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Post by irimi on May 22, 2024 13:50:45 GMT -8
I keep checking Goodwill. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on May 22, 2024 14:16:48 GMT -8
Unlike baseball, I don't think basketball, volleyball or soccer were given the choice whether to remain indy, join the WCC or the MWC. That decision was made for them. As far as the players go, I'll reserve judgment until school starts next fall. Too much can happen in the interim to think that some who say they are staying won't end up leaving. And I am not sold at all that being independent is the right choice for baseball. But that's the decision we made, so I'll live with it. Being independent at least gives us a chance to set our own path and use our brand to the best of our ability. MWC or WCC wouldn't have been a death sentence but it definitely would've hamstrung us. I don't think it was much of a decision to make, independent was the best option out there. How it works out though, remains to be seen I agree. There are two ways to reach the NCAA tournament, which is the annual goal. At-large, or automatic qualification. By choosing to go independent, we halved our options. |
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Post by osubeaver2018 on May 22, 2024 14:18:55 GMT -8
Being independent at least gives us a chance to set our own path and use our brand to the best of our ability. MWC or WCC wouldn't have been a death sentence but it definitely would've hamstrung us. I don't think it was much of a decision to make, independent was the best option out there. How it works out though, remains to be seen I agree. There are two ways to reach the NCAA tournament, which is the annual goal. At-large, or automatic qualification. By choosing to go independent, we halved our options. I think I said this in a previous post a while back, but if we're relying on an automatic bid from the MWC or WCC then we've fallen a long way from our current status as a national power already and independent vs. conference membership doesn't matter. We've never had to rely on an automatic bid in the last 20 years, I'd hope we don't have to now. |
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Post by Henry Skrimshander on May 22, 2024 15:06:40 GMT -8
There are two ways to reach the NCAA tournament, which is the annual goal. At-large, or automatic qualification. By choosing to go independent, we halved our options. I think I said this in a previous post a while back, but if we're relying on an automatic bid from the MWC or WCC then we've fallen a long way from our current status as a national power already and independent vs. conference membership doesn't matter. We've never had to rely on an automatic bid in the last 20 years, I'd hope we don't have to now. I never had to rely on a spare tire for many, many years. Until I did. It sure was nice to have that option. As my high school algebra teacher said, "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." |
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Post by osubeaver2018 on May 22, 2024 15:14:27 GMT -8
I think I said this in a previous post a while back, but if we're relying on an automatic bid from the MWC or WCC then we've fallen a long way from our current status as a national power already and independent vs. conference membership doesn't matter. We've never had to rely on an automatic bid in the last 20 years, I'd hope we don't have to now. I never had to rely on a spare tire for many, many years. Until I did. It sure was nice to have that option. As my high school algebra teacher said, "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." I hear that, just saying the reasoning behind going independent is due to our status as a national power right now. It's also temporary while we wait to see how the rest of the conference landscape shakes out while giving ourselves the best chance to maintain our current status. If it's to the point where we need an AQ then our status as that power is already gone, and by then we'll probably be in a conference anyway. I think our bigger issue being independent is scheduling and maintaining an RPI/SOS good enough to host than it is really needing a conference tournament to sneak into the tournament as a bid stealer or 1-bid league winner. If we are who we think we are, AQ or not won't matter. |
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Post by rgeorge on May 22, 2024 15:33:57 GMT -8
I never had to rely on a spare tire for many, many years. Until I did. It sure was nice to have that option. As my high school algebra teacher said, "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." I hear that, just saying the reasoning behind going independent is due to our status as a national power right now. It's also temporary while we wait to see how the rest of the conference landscape shakes out while giving ourselves the best chance to maintain our current status. If it's to the point where we need an AQ then our status as that power is already gone, and by then we'll probably be in a conference anyway. I think our bigger issue being independent is scheduling and maintaining an RPI/SOS good enough to host than it is really needing a conference tournament to sneak into the tournament as a bid stealer or 1-bid league winner. If we are who we think we are, AQ or not won't matter. The advantage of the conference is that it is much easier to schedule enough high RPI type games with 30 games (5 sold out home series) already secured. You do not need a conference tourney to "sneak" in, but winning any conference is a plus. As an Independent you've won some random games, that are meaningless in terms of any conference significance, and many will most likely not be versus the opponents best staff as they will use those in conference play once it starts. Every conference has their "studs", draftable talent, and winning even a weaker conference where you are facing the opponents best is meaningful. Hell, win the conference by 3, 4, 5 games. But, you win "nothing" not playing in a conference... and players only have the opportunity for "national accolades"... probably not many are going to be recognized playing an independent schedule. IMHO one negative of being an independent has already reared it ugly head. The Globe series was the ONLY NC games that gave OSU quality opponents and next year not even close to the same. Whether it is going to be a road warrior situation or not, OSU is going to find it very difficult to find 10-15 quality weekend series. All of the former Pac12 teams will not only have full conference slates, but loads of new travel. Each also has a set of regular NC foes they have scheduled in the past. And, will P4 teams look at OSU the same as an Independent with not only no P4 affiliation, but no conference affiliation? I might add that many do see OSU as a "national power", I do not think most of the upper tier ACC or SEC teams care or want to play more good teams than they already do for NC games. Especially in the midst of conference play. And, it's baseball, not football, and OSU is not even close to ND in terms of being able to survive long as an independent. And, one year may be enough to be too much. It's a ways down the road, but I'll stand by my opinion that going Independent is a fool's errand, until proven wrong. There is no way Barnes and MC are going to schedule 56 better games than they could being in a conference and dealing with less NC scheduling. OSU's Surprise games are also typically very weak opponents so the rest of the games before everyone else's conference begins better be very good opponents. But, as someone stated, it is a done deal, so we have to live with it and hope it turns out. |
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Post by osubeaver2018 on May 22, 2024 22:34:01 GMT -8
I hear that, just saying the reasoning behind going independent is due to our status as a national power right now. It's also temporary while we wait to see how the rest of the conference landscape shakes out while giving ourselves the best chance to maintain our current status. If it's to the point where we need an AQ then our status as that power is already gone, and by then we'll probably be in a conference anyway. I think our bigger issue being independent is scheduling and maintaining an RPI/SOS good enough to host than it is really needing a conference tournament to sneak into the tournament as a bid stealer or 1-bid league winner. If we are who we think we are, AQ or not won't matter. The advantage of the conference is that it is much easier to schedule enough high RPI type games with 30 games (5 sold out home series) already secured. You do not need a conference tourney to "sneak" in, but winning any conference is a plus. As an Independent you've won some random games, that are meaningless in terms of any conference significance, and many will most likely not be versus the opponents best staff as they will use those in conference play once it starts. Every conference has their "studs", draftable talent, and winning even a weaker conference where you are facing the opponents best is meaningful. Hell, win the conference by 3, 4, 5 games. But, you win "nothing" not playing in a conference... and players only have the opportunity for "national accolades"... probably not many are going to be recognized playing an independent schedule. IMHO one negative of being an independent has already reared it ugly head. The Globe series was the ONLY NC games that gave OSU quality opponents and next year not even close to the same. Whether it is going to be a road warrior situation or not, OSU is going to find it very difficult to find 10-15 quality weekend series. All of the former Pac12 teams will not only have full conference slates, but loads of new travel. Each also has a set of regular NC foes they have scheduled in the past. And, will P4 teams look at OSU the same as an Independent with not only no P4 affiliation, but no conference affiliation? I might add that many do see OSU as a "national power", I do not think most of the upper tier ACC or SEC teams care or want to play more good teams than they already do for NC games. Especially in the midst of conference play. And, it's baseball, not football, and OSU is not even close to ND in terms of being able to survive long as an independent. And, one year may be enough to be too much. It's a ways down the road, but I'll stand by my opinion that going Independent is a fool's errand, until proven wrong. There is no way Barnes and MC are going to schedule 56 better games than they could being in a conference and dealing with less NC scheduling. OSU's Surprise games are also typically very weak opponents so the rest of the games before everyone else's conference begins better be very good opponents. But, as someone stated, it is a done deal, so we have to live with it and hope it turns out. I think we both have the same concerns regarding scheduling and the logistics behind being independent, but I also am not sure a MWC or WCC affiliation would have helped much. We already schedule plenty of games with teams from both conferences, all joining either one does is fill the schedule with more of the same type of opponents we're supposedly trying to avoid. If we were turning down a chance to be in say the Big 12 to go independent, then I would 100% agree on the choice being a fool's errand. Being part of a major conference takes much of that stress away, but that luxury isn't available unfortunately. It may or may not work out as it is, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what schedule they actually will be able to piece together. |
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Post by flyfishinbeav on May 23, 2024 7:06:57 GMT -8
The advantage of the conference is that it is much easier to schedule enough high RPI type games with 30 games (5 sold out home series) already secured. You do not need a conference tourney to "sneak" in, but winning any conference is a plus. As an Independent you've won some random games, that are meaningless in terms of any conference significance, and many will most likely not be versus the opponents best staff as they will use those in conference play once it starts. Every conference has their "studs", draftable talent, and winning even a weaker conference where you are facing the opponents best is meaningful. Hell, win the conference by 3, 4, 5 games. But, you win "nothing" not playing in a conference... and players only have the opportunity for "national accolades"... probably not many are going to be recognized playing an independent schedule. IMHO one negative of being an independent has already reared it ugly head. The Globe series was the ONLY NC games that gave OSU quality opponents and next year not even close to the same. Whether it is going to be a road warrior situation or not, OSU is going to find it very difficult to find 10-15 quality weekend series. All of the former Pac12 teams will not only have full conference slates, but loads of new travel. Each also has a set of regular NC foes they have scheduled in the past. And, will P4 teams look at OSU the same as an Independent with not only no P4 affiliation, but no conference affiliation? I might add that many do see OSU as a "national power", I do not think most of the upper tier ACC or SEC teams care or want to play more good teams than they already do for NC games. Especially in the midst of conference play. And, it's baseball, not football, and OSU is not even close to ND in terms of being able to survive long as an independent. And, one year may be enough to be too much. It's a ways down the road, but I'll stand by my opinion that going Independent is a fool's errand, until proven wrong. There is no way Barnes and MC are going to schedule 56 better games than they could being in a conference and dealing with less NC scheduling. OSU's Surprise games are also typically very weak opponents so the rest of the games before everyone else's conference begins better be very good opponents. But, as someone stated, it is a done deal, so we have to live with it and hope it turns out. I think we both have the same concerns regarding scheduling and the logistics behind being independent, but I also am not sure a MWC or WCC affiliation would have helped much. We already schedule plenty of games with teams from both conferences, all joining either one does is fill the schedule with more of the same type of opponents we're supposedly trying to avoid. If we were turning down a chance to be in say the Big 12 to go independent, then I would 100% agree on the choice being a fool's errand. Being part of a major conference takes much of that stress away, but that luxury isn't available unfortunately. It may or may not work out as it is, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what schedule they actually will be able to piece together. Being an affiliate of the WCC or MWC in baseball would be about the same as the basketball programs doing it. Not saying it would equal the same result of a mass exodus, but it is not a "power" move. Rueck was getting elite talent to Corvallis based on being in the Pac 12, and the culture he built. The baseball programs culture speaks for itself. The baseball program is a national power, and should conduct business as such. Without affiliation to a P4 conference, independent was the only path.....for now. |
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