|
|
Post by Judge Smails on May 3, 2024 17:24:11 GMT -8
I admit I have a re-kindled interest in MBB as a result of the turnover.... This revamping of the roster lets me see if perhaps the new recruits might be more "coachable": I really think WT is a quality individual, and even his level of engagement with players on the bench and coming on and off the floor makes me think he is providing coaching, just not sure if it is landing with some of the players. To your point, this crop of players "want to be here and WT's message will not be ignored". Could be a fun season from a player and development point of view, and I believe that from a WCC standpoint the cupboard is not bare for WT, and to your point, the backcourt might even be better. Let's see what he does with it. Go Beavers! Agreed. Bilodeau was the only one that I was really sad to see leave. He was the most improved from his 1st year and I think he can be a very good player. While Pope was a good scorer, I didn’t think that he had a lot of room to improve. I think we can find equals or upgrades to all of the other players that left. |
|
|
|
Post by beaver94 on May 3, 2024 17:49:28 GMT -8
I admit I have a re-kindled interest in MBB as a result of the turnover.... This revamping of the roster lets me see if perhaps the new recruits might be more "coachable": I really think WT is a quality individual, and even his level of engagement with players on the bench and coming on and off the floor makes me think he is providing coaching, just not sure if it is landing with some of the players. To your point, this crop of players "want to be here and WT's message will not be ignored". Could be a fun season from a player and development point of view, and I believe that from a WCC standpoint the cupboard is not bare for WT, and to your point, the backcourt might even be better. Let's see what he does with it. Go Beavers! Agreed. Bilodeau was the only one that I was really sad to see leave. He was the most improved from his 1st year and I think he can be a very good player. While Pope was a good scorer, I didn’t think that he had a lot of room to improve. I think we can find equals or upgrades to all of the other players that left. Totally agree with this. Pope could be exciting to watch but I thought Bilodeau still had the most room for improvement. He’s probably the only player that’s left the team in recent years that I’m honestly curious to follow after he’s gone. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on May 4, 2024 7:02:41 GMT -8
I thought Bilodeau was going to be the hardest to replace of those that left, but in large part because of his position/role. With the changes in CBB last 5 years or so, tougher to find stretch 4s with enough bulk to take it inside and also at least an OK rebounder. Scoring from the guard position just seems easier to find.
That said, I think some people are being too rough on Pope. Is he a complete player? No. But he is a very good scorer. Reminds me a bit like Caleb Love in that regard and Pope might be a bit more efficient. I think the lower rebounding numbers are in part a result of the system WT runs and Pope’s role in it. Beaver guards have never put up big rebounding numbers. Pope had 2.6 rpg this past year. In E8 season, Reichle only averaged 3.0 rpg (fewer minutes though) and Ethan 4.0 rpg. Both of those guys were bigger than Pope. Ethan averaged 4.3 rpg for his career with a season high in points of 15.7 ppg. Stevie was 3.3 rpg with season high of 16.3 ppg. Pope was 2.6 with season high of 17.6 ppg. I’m actually very interested to see how Pope does with his new team and in a new system. Kid may be lacking in some areas, but he can score.
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Smails on May 4, 2024 7:38:14 GMT -8
I thought Bilodeau was going to be the hardest to replace of those that left, but in large part because of his position/role. With the changes in CBB last 5 years or so, tougher to find stretch 4s with enough bulk to take it inside and also at least an OK rebounder. Scoring from the guard position just seems easier to find. That said, I think some people are being too rough on Pope. Is he a complete player? No. But he is a very good scorer. Reminds me a bit like Caleb Love in that regard and Pope might be a bit more efficient. I think the lower rebounding numbers are in part a result of the system WT runs and Pope’s role in it. Beaver guards have never put up big rebounding numbers. Pope had 2.6 rpg this past year. In E8 season, Reichle only averaged 3.0 rpg (fewer minutes though) and Ethan 4.0 rpg. Both of those guys were bigger than Pope. Ethan averaged 4.3 rpg for his career with a season high in points of 15.7 ppg. Stevie was 3.3 rpg with season high of 16.3 ppg. Pope was 2.6 with season high of 17.6 ppg. I’m actually very interested to see how Pope does with his new team and in a new system. Kid may be lacking in some areas, but he can score. I wasn’t bagging on him. He’s a good player. Just think he’s closer to his ceiling than Tyler. |
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on May 4, 2024 10:39:44 GMT -8
I thought Bilodeau was going to be the hardest to replace of those that left, but in large part because of his position/role. With the changes in CBB last 5 years or so, tougher to find stretch 4s with enough bulk to take it inside and also at least an OK rebounder. Scoring from the guard position just seems easier to find. That said, I think some people are being too rough on Pope. Is he a complete player? No. But he is a very good scorer. Reminds me a bit like Caleb Love in that regard and Pope might be a bit more efficient. I think the lower rebounding numbers are in part a result of the system WT runs and Pope’s role in it. Beaver guards have never put up big rebounding numbers. Pope had 2.6 rpg this past year. In E8 season, Reichle only averaged 3.0 rpg (fewer minutes though) and Ethan 4.0 rpg. Both of those guys were bigger than Pope. Ethan averaged 4.3 rpg for his career with a season high in points of 15.7 ppg. Stevie was 3.3 rpg with season high of 16.3 ppg. Pope was 2.6 with season high of 17.6 ppg. I’m actually very interested to see how Pope does with his new team and in a new system. Kid may be lacking in some areas, but he can score. This particular post looses all credibility if your intent was to somehow compare Pope to either Thompson. He's not in the dame "class" as either, especiallynot Ethan. Pope disappeared vs good defenders, he is not even a decent defender, he was not a scrapper, and definitely not a floor general. The offense basically ground to a halt when he monopolized the ball. Pope is a "decent" scorer at best. On a bad team he's seen as good. But, if you thought the offense was inconsistent, late in the clock, and had far (FAR) too many lengthy scoring droughts... he was the key to both the positive & all the negative too. There was a reason such a "scorer" was only Pac12 HM in what most consider a down last season of Pac12 hoops. He's a 6th man spark, part time starter on any team with a defensive emphasis and a offense where the ball isn't "stuck" regularly. Have no idea how he'll do, don't care, at UT. But, they are uptempo a plus for him. But, the move to the SEC will be interesting for both he a UT. My opinion. But, Tyler is the true loss. Unfortunately I think he's in for a rude culture shock in LA. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on May 4, 2024 11:59:15 GMT -8
I thought Bilodeau was going to be the hardest to replace of those that left, but in large part because of his position/role. With the changes in CBB last 5 years or so, tougher to find stretch 4s with enough bulk to take it inside and also at least an OK rebounder. Scoring from the guard position just seems easier to find. That said, I think some people are being too rough on Pope. Is he a complete player? No. But he is a very good scorer. Reminds me a bit like Caleb Love in that regard and Pope might be a bit more efficient. I think the lower rebounding numbers are in part a result of the system WT runs and Pope’s role in it. Beaver guards have never put up big rebounding numbers. Pope had 2.6 rpg this past year. In E8 season, Reichle only averaged 3.0 rpg (fewer minutes though) and Ethan 4.0 rpg. Both of those guys were bigger than Pope. Ethan averaged 4.3 rpg for his career with a season high in points of 15.7 ppg. Stevie was 3.3 rpg with season high of 16.3 ppg. Pope was 2.6 with season high of 17.6 ppg. I’m actually very interested to see how Pope does with his new team and in a new system. Kid may be lacking in some areas, but he can score. This particular post looses all credibility if your intent was to somehow compare Pope to either Thompson. He's not in the dame "class" as either, especiallynot Ethan. Pope disappeared vs good defenders, he is not even a decent defender, he was not a scrapper, and definitely not a floor general. The offense basically ground to a halt when he monopolized the ball. Pope is a "decent" scorer at best. On a bad team he's seen as good. But, if you thought the offense was inconsistent, late in the clock, and had far (FAR) too many lengthy scoring droughts... he was the key to both the positive & all the negative too. There was a reason such a "scorer" was only Pac12 HM in what most consider a down last season of Pac12 hoops. He's a 6th man spark, part time starter on any team with a defensive emphasis and a offense where the ball isn't "stuck" regularly. Have no idea how he'll do, don't care, at UT. But, they are uptempo a plus for him. But, the move to the SEC will be interesting for both he a UT. My opinion. But, Tyler is the true loss. Unfortunately I think he's in for a rude culture shock in LA. I think you might want to stick to what is written rather than trying to decipher intent. No where did I say Pope was better than Ethan (nor do I think he is) or Stevie. My intent was to show that Pope can score (check) and his rebounding numbers aren’t as bad as someone indicated when compared to some players in the recent past (check). As to Pope not being in same class as Stevie, all around play wise, he isn’t because Stevie was a better defender. But in other areas his numbers are as good or slightly better than Stevie’s. Stevie also had the benefit of playing with a better roster than Pope and never had to be the main guy. The one time he had to be the main guy (his sophomore year), his numbers are pretty close to what Pope’s were in his sophomore year except for steals/D. Pope was slightly higher in PPG (averaging a half a shot a game less), APG, slightly lower in TPG and his shooting stats were a fair amount better. Stevie’s RPG and SPG were better than Pope’s. And Stevie’s team went 5-27 (1-17). We’ll see how Pope does playing with what on paper will likely be better players than he played with this year. He might actually be able to settle in as the number 2 guy like Stevie was for most of his career. As you’ve pointed out more than once, Bilodeau was the only real talent Pope played with this year. The centers sucked. Akanno was inconsistent as was Rataj. The bench was for the most part terrible. I think Pope will acquit himself well on his new team. Will he win DPOY? No. Will he have a strong offensive year? I believe so. But we’ll see. |
|
|
|
Post by seastape on May 4, 2024 12:51:59 GMT -8
I also think Pope has been short-changed a bit. He scores well, has a good shooting percentage, and, most importantly, creates his own shot. Outside of the sons (Thompsons and Tres) and a legacy (GPII), not many players in the Tinkle era have had the talent to create their own shots.
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on May 4, 2024 12:56:06 GMT -8
This particular post looses all credibility if your intent was to somehow compare Pope to either Thompson. He's not in the dame "class" as either, especiallynot Ethan. Pope disappeared vs good defenders, he is not even a decent defender, he was not a scrapper, and definitely not a floor general. The offense basically ground to a halt when he monopolized the ball. Pope is a "decent" scorer at best. On a bad team he's seen as good. But, if you thought the offense was inconsistent, late in the clock, and had far (FAR) too many lengthy scoring droughts... he was the key to both the positive & all the negative too. There was a reason such a "scorer" was only Pac12 HM in what most consider a down last season of Pac12 hoops. He's a 6th man spark, part time starter on any team with a defensive emphasis and a offense where the ball isn't "stuck" regularly. Have no idea how he'll do, don't care, at UT. But, they are uptempo a plus for him. But, the move to the SEC will be interesting for both he a UT. My opinion. But, Tyler is the true loss. Unfortunately I think he's in for a rude culture shock in LA. I think you might want to stick to what is written rather than trying to decipher intent. No where did I say Pope was better than Ethan (nor do I think he is) or Stevie. My intent was to show that Pope can score (check) and his rebounding numbers aren’t as bad as someone indicated when compared to some players in the recent past (check). As to Pope not being in same class as Stevie, all around play wise, he isn’t because Stevie was a better defender. But in other areas his numbers are as good or slightly better than Stevie’s. Stevie also had the benefit of playing with a better roster than Pope and never had to be the main guy. The one time he had to be the main guy (his sophomore year), his numbers are pretty close to what Pope’s were in his sophomore year except for steals/D. Pope was slightly higher in PPG (averaging a half a shot a game less), APG, slightly lower in TPG and his shooting stats were a fair amount better. Stevie’s RPG and SPG were better than Pope’s. And Stevie’s team went 5-27 (1-17). We’ll see how Pope does playing with what on paper will likely be better players than he played with this year. He might actually be able to settle in as the number 2 guy like Stevie was for most of his career. As you’ve pointed out more than once, Bilodeau was the only real talent Pope played with this year. The centers sucked. Akanno was inconsistent as was Rataj. The bench was for the most part terrible. I think Pope will acquit himself well on his new team. Will he win DPOY? No. Will he have a strong offensive year? I believe so. But we’ll see. The "intent" was your comparison of #s which is meaningless overall when compared to other aspects of their game. And, in your continued comparison "Stevie's" 5-27 team was without their best player. And, even Stevie for a few games. Pope is/was the best player on two of the worst teams in OSU history. As far as what is/was written... I never mentioned you stated Pope was better. I stated you lost credibility, in my opinion, comparing two far more complete players that were far better leaders and made others around around better. Maybe better than could be imagined in Ethan's case. |
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on May 4, 2024 13:22:35 GMT -8
I think you might want to stick to what is written rather than trying to decipher intent. No where did I say Pope was better than Ethan (nor do I think he is) or Stevie. My intent was to show that Pope can score (check) and his rebounding numbers aren’t as bad as someone indicated when compared to some players in the recent past (check). As to Pope not being in same class as Stevie, all around play wise, he isn’t because Stevie was a better defender. But in other areas his numbers are as good or slightly better than Stevie’s. Stevie also had the benefit of playing with a better roster than Pope and never had to be the main guy. The one time he had to be the main guy (his sophomore year), his numbers are pretty close to what Pope’s were in his sophomore year except for steals/D. Pope was slightly higher in PPG (averaging a half a shot a game less), APG, slightly lower in TPG and his shooting stats were a fair amount better. Stevie’s RPG and SPG were better than Pope’s. And Stevie’s team went 5-27 (1-17). We’ll see how Pope does playing with what on paper will likely be better players than he played with this year. He might actually be able to settle in as the number 2 guy like Stevie was for most of his career. As you’ve pointed out more than once, Bilodeau was the only real talent Pope played with this year. The centers sucked. Akanno was inconsistent as was Rataj. The bench was for the most part terrible. I think Pope will acquit himself well on his new team. Will he win DPOY? No. Will he have a strong offensive year? I believe so. But we’ll see. The "intent" was your comparison of #s which is meaningless overall when compared to other aspects of their game. And, in your continued comparison "Stevie's" 5-27 team was without their best player. And, even Stevie for a few games. Pope is/was the best player on two of the worst teams in OSU history. As far as what is/was written... I never mentioned you stated Pope was better. I stated you lost credibility, in my opinion, comparing two far more complete players that were far better leaders and made others around around better. Maybe better than could be imagined in Ethan's case. OK |
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on May 4, 2024 13:34:39 GMT -8
The "intent" was your comparison of #s which is meaningless overall when compared to other aspects of their game. And, in your continued comparison "Stevie's" 5-27 team was without their best player. And, even Stevie for a few games. Pope is/was the best player on two of the worst teams in OSU history. As far as what is/was written... I never mentioned you stated Pope was better. I stated you lost credibility, in my opinion, comparing two far more complete players that were far better leaders and made others around around better. Maybe better than could be imagined in Ethan's case. OK Ok... and not "meaningless". Numbers are what they are. I should have simply stated I've got much much more respect for the Thompson's as people and players. So, bias may mean short changing someone?! Go Beavs |
|
|
|
Post by beaver94 on May 4, 2024 13:53:43 GMT -8
I definitely wasn’t trying to short change Pope either. I was a fan of his since I saw his last couple high school tournament games. I feel similar to him leaving as I did Jarod Lucas. I’d have rather seen them both come back, also disappointed but somewhat understanding in why they may have left. I also think what they brought with their games is more easily replaced than what a player like Bilodeau could potentially bring.
|
|
|
|
Post by drunkandstoopidbeav on May 4, 2024 14:22:07 GMT -8
It will be interesting to see how Pope is used. He was a shooting guard until his final season at Prolific Prep. I'm pretty sure I read he was moved to the point out of necessity.
He pretty much played the point here out of necessity as well.
I think he did fine considering he might have been better suited to playing the 2.
|
|
|
|
Post by beaverinohio on Jun 21, 2024 11:14:16 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by steinlager on Jun 21, 2024 11:20:05 GMT -8
Like Chris Rock said, "A man is only as loyal as his options."
|
|
|
|
Post by rgeorge on Jun 21, 2024 11:22:47 GMT -8
Like Chris Rock said, "A man is only as loyal as his options." Especially if it may involve academic eligibility?? |
|
