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Post by ag87 on Mar 10, 2024 16:23:21 GMT -8
I had not thought of that, but maybe that was his angle. I do think he was actively searching even in September. I wonder if our success was making him happy or uncomfortable.
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Post by bdudbeaver on Mar 10, 2024 18:39:10 GMT -8
I had not thought of that, but maybe that was his angle. I do think he was actively searching even in September. I wonder if our success was making him happy or uncomfortable. Very interesting. But stupid!
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 10, 2024 19:49:04 GMT -8
You can look at the three drives following each Chiles drives. I believe that Oregon State scored something like 10 points in those 21 drives. It is profoundly stupid to warm up a quarterback, have him play for a bit, shut him down, and then ask him to warm back up and insert him. You can do that one game. Maybe two. But the seven games that that occurred were just awful. If Chiles was the starter, start him. If not, he should not formulaically be seeing the third drive of every game. Then, we see what a not 100% DJU looks like and grumble, because he is playing with one arm behind his back. You see garbage like that from bad high school teams, not Power Five football teams. Stupid! I always felt it was a negotiating tactic, ala Lincoln Riley and Caleb Smith at Oklahoma. Make yourself a package deal of head coach coming with premiere qb. From when Smith first started putting Chiles in for 1 series I always thought it was so odd, no one in college football with a team contending for a power 5 championship has ever done that. I felt there might be a vague chance he was just trying to keep Chiles happy, but would any coach do that with the risk of losing a Pac-12 championship because you are afraid to lose a freshmen qb in the offseason? Seemed like a no to me. That made me think, given all the circumstances, that JS was looking for another job, and felt if he had a premiere qb to dangle that would make him much more valuable. The package deal. It could be that Smitty lost the Wazzu game and started looking for a new place to coach right after that time. Then, inserting Chiles every week for seven weeks makes a lot more sense. Plus, then, you can really give it your all to scheme on the Chiles drives, showcasing Velling in the process. Get the tape to teams who need head coaches. Then, you do not really have to worry about mailing it in on offense the other games. At that point, it is kind of like King Longshanks in Braveheart. Win, if possible! Lose close, just as good. Then, completely give up right after the Washington game, knowing that you will be coaching at Michigan State with Chiles and Velling.
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Post by kersting13 on Mar 10, 2024 22:45:40 GMT -8
You can look at the three drives following each Chiles drives. I believe that Oregon State scored something like 10 points in those 21 drives. It is profoundly stupid to warm up a quarterback, have him play for a bit, shut him down, and then ask him to warm back up and insert him. You can do that one game. Maybe two. But the seven games that that occurred were just awful. If Chiles was the starter, start him. If not, he should not formulaically be seeing the third drive of every game. Then, we see what a not 100% DJU looks like and grumble, because he is playing with one arm behind his back. You see garbage like that from bad high school teams, not Power Five football teams. Stupid! I always felt it was a negotiating tactic, ala Lincoln Riley and Caleb Smith at Oklahoma. Make yourself a package deal of head coach coming with premiere qb. From when Smith first started putting Chiles in for 1 series I always thought it was so odd, no one in college football with a team contending for a power 5 championship has ever done that.I felt there might be a vague chance he was just trying to keep Chiles happy, but would any coach do that with the risk of losing a Pac-12 championship because you are afraid to lose a freshmen qb in the offseason? Seemed like a no to me. That made me think, given all the circumstances, that JS was looking for another job, and felt if he had a premiere qb to dangle that would make him much more valuable. The package deal. I thought that this is exactly what Clemson did when DJU was a freshman in 2020 and Lawrence was the starter. Clemson won the ACC and made the CFP doing this.
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Post by bvrbred on Mar 11, 2024 5:49:42 GMT -8
If you're that good, then you can afford to do it. Clemson's wins were all comfortable one sided games with the exception of a 6 point win over Boston College. Their only loss (until Ohio State Sugar Bowl) was to Notre Dame, the game DJU played the entire game.
We weren't that good. Had we been winning every game by scores of 42-17, and the like, I would have been fine with it.
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Post by kersting13 on Mar 11, 2024 8:49:36 GMT -8
If you're that good, then you can afford to do it. Clemson's wins were all comfortable one sided games with the exception of a 6 point win over Boston College. Their only loss (until Ohio State Sugar Bowl) was to Notre Dame, the game DJU played the entire game. We weren't that good. Had we been winning every game by scores of 42-17, and the like, I would have been fine with it. The point in question wasn't how great Clemson was. The point in question was about no team vying for a league title having ever done that.
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Post by bvrbred on Mar 11, 2024 10:49:41 GMT -8
I am not denying that that happened. I am pointing out that Clemson could afford to do it, with little risk, insofar as they were winning games, league games, by lopsided margins. It has been pointed out that in our games our offenses stalled after Chiles was given his series. Clemson was so much better than the teams they were playing (apart from Notre Dame) that there was little risk of this. Are you suggesting Swinney would have given a true freshman QB a series in each game had those games been tight? Maybe. I personally doubt it although neither one of us an prove it either way.
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Post by kersting13 on Mar 11, 2024 12:40:28 GMT -8
I am not denying that that happened. I am pointing out that Clemson could afford to do it, with little risk, insofar as they were winning games, league games, by lopsided margins. It has been pointed out that in our games our offenses stalled after Chiles was given his series. Clemson was so much better than the teams they were playing (apart from Notre Dame) that there was little risk of this. Are you suggesting Swinney would have given a true freshman QB a series in each game had those games been tight? Maybe. I personally doubt it although neither one of us an prove it either way. I'm not saying anything other than what I responded to the OP for: OP said it had never been done before. I merely responded that it had been done recently and with one of the same parties involved as when the Beavers did it. I was making no judgments of the validity of the plan. Merely pointing out that it most certainly had been done before, and recently.
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 11, 2024 13:08:17 GMT -8
I always felt it was a negotiating tactic, ala Lincoln Riley and Caleb Smith at Oklahoma. Make yourself a package deal of head coach coming with premiere qb. From when Smith first started putting Chiles in for 1 series I always thought it was so odd, no one in college football with a team contending for a power 5 championship has ever done that.I felt there might be a vague chance he was just trying to keep Chiles happy, but would any coach do that with the risk of losing a Pac-12 championship because you are afraid to lose a freshmen qb in the offseason? Seemed like a no to me. That made me think, given all the circumstances, that JS was looking for another job, and felt if he had a premiere qb to dangle that would make him much more valuable. The package deal. I thought that this is exactly what Clemson did when DJU was a freshman in 2020 and Lawrence was the starter. Clemson won the ACC and made the CFP doing this. The long and the short response to you is, no, absolutely not. That is absolutely not what happened, because Dabo is not a complete idiot, despite his horrendous nickname "Dabo." (Dabo's given name is "William," but "Dabo" has been his nickname, since he was an infant.) What follows is a more complete response: Lawrence started against Wake and built up a 37-3 lead. DJU replaced Lawrence with 1:30 left in the third quarter and led two drives for 35 combined yards and zero points. DJU made way for the third-string quarterback. Lawrence started against The Citadel and built up a 28-0 lead on three drives. Travis Etienne returned the subsequent punt down to the six, and DJU came in to lead the drive for six yards, which consisted of a DJU pass for two yards, a run by another player for three, and a DJU one-yard carry. 35-0. Smart! Save Lawrence for something more important. Lawrence came back in and led one more drive, 42-0. DJU then took over for good with 8:10 left in the first half in drive six and led a 61-yard drive. 49-0. DJU came out for the third-string quarterback before coming back in after halftime and fumbling in his first drive of the second half. The third-string quarterback came in and went three-and-out. DJU came back, picked up one first down, and then could not convert a fourth-and-three. The third-string quarterback took over from there. Lawrence played until 1:11 left in the game against Virginia. DJU ran the last three plays for five yards, and the clock ran out. Lawrence started against Miami and drove for a touchdown on the first drive. Clemson brought DJU in to basically run two gimmick plays with Lawrence still on the field. DJU almost fumbled the snap on the second play but was able to throw away the ball before there was a complete disaster. DJU exited for Lawrence. DJU came back in for one gimmick play in the third quarter that went for three yards and immediately exited. DJU did not see the field again. DJU got hurt in practice between Miami and Georgia Tech and missed the Georgia Tech game. Lawrence started against Syracuse and played until 8:10 left. DJU came in to close it out with a 47-21 lead. DJU drove 36 yards on eight plays, running the clock down under five minutes. Lawrence tested positive for COVID-19 and did not play against Boston College or Notre Dame. DJU started both games. Lawrence came back in and started against Pitt, playing for the first three quarters. DJU came in the fourth quarter up 52-17 and was quarterback for the next three drives (19 plays for 63 yards) before being pulled for the third-string quarterback. DJU did not see the field against Virginia Tech, despite it being a 45-10 game. Lawrence started against Notre Dame in the ACC Championship Game rematch, playing until 5:06 left with Clemson leading 34-10. DJU finished out the game, 34-10. DJU did not see the field against Ohio State, a 49-28 loss. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a second-string quarterback like Smitty used Colletto in years past. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with pulling a quarterback situationally, when there is a short field or to run a gimmick or something. There is something stupid (or nefarious), though, about the way that Smitty used DJU and Chiles in 2023.
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Post by atownbeaver on Mar 11, 2024 18:10:58 GMT -8
In the time it was happening live, I thought it was to push DJU and to show him Chiles can and will replace him if he doesn't show up.
In the time it was happening, I thought we needed better QB play and DJU was largely disappointing to me. But, as it kept unfolding Chiles never got more time, and it stayed with this odd one drive thing. Many times in the season I wanted to see Chiles get the job.
Now that it is all done and said, I just don't know. I am not sure I am putting on a tin-foil hat that it was a master plan to get hired somewhere else and show his guy off. Maybe... Tucker was suspended in week 2, then fired the following week.
Smith did not start the season with options but by week 3 his agent had to know MSU was interested. It does feel like Smith was threading the needle of staying on Chiles good side, while not giving enough of him away for other offers, while also not making DJU mad, in case he had to offer DJU.
A lot of stuff made me feel he was making decision for Smith's future, not OSU's...
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Post by bleedorange21 on Mar 11, 2024 18:52:07 GMT -8
There just wasn’t any strategy to it. There were times that they would bring him in at really bad situations. I think he came in one time backed up on their own goaline and might’ve ended up as a safety iirc.
The only reason I was somewhat ok with it was the fact that we were getting our future qb experience. That didn’t up being the case and motive. Seems like he knew he was leaving and knew Chiles would come along with him so best to get him experience at the expense of the team they’re leaving.
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Post by seastape on Mar 11, 2024 19:51:38 GMT -8
In the time it was happening live, I thought it was to push DJU and to show him Chiles can and will replace him if he doesn't show up. In the time it was happening, I thought we needed better QB play and DJU was largely disappointing to me. But, as it kept unfolding Chiles never got more time, and it stayed with this odd one drive thing. Many times in the season I wanted to see Chiles get the job. Now that it is all done and said, I just don't know. I am not sure I am putting on a tin-foil hat that it was a master plan to get hired somewhere else and show his guy off. Maybe... Tucker was suspended in week 2, then fired the following week. Smith did not start the season with options but by week 3 his agent had to know MSU was interested. It does feel like Smith was threading the needle of staying on Chiles good side, while not giving enough of him away for other offers, while also not making DJU mad, in case he had to offer DJU. A lot of stuff made me feel he was making decision for Smith's future, not OSU's...On October 7, 2017, Gary Andersen lost his last game as head coach for Oregon State. He “resigned” two days later on Monday, October 9, 2017. At the time, Jonathan Smith was OC at Washington, which was on its way to a 10-3 season. When Oregon State hired Smith after the 2017 season ended, I became curious: When Andersen was (not) fired, did Jonathan look to Corvallis as his first head coaching gig? Was he able to keep his mind on Washington’s offense? Or was he looking at OSU’s entire team? So, I looked up how well Washington’s offense played the game following Andersen’s departure. That game was played at Arizona State on October 14, 2017. Some background information: 1) Washington finished the 2017 Pac 12 season second in scoring offense (36.2/ppg) and ninth in total offense (405 yds/game). 2) Arizona State finished the 2017 Pac 12 season ninth in scoring defense (gave up 32.8/ppg) and ninth in total defense (451 yards/game). Washington went to Sun Devil Stadium ranked #5 in the nation. ASU entered the game with a 2-3 record, but their last two games before Washington were 1) a road loss to Stanford, who finished the season tied with the Huskies for 2nd place in the Pac 12 and 1st in the North, and 2) a home win over Oregon, which was ranked #24 at the time. It should be noted that ASU had a bye the week before the Washington game. Maybe it was the bye. The #5 Huskies lost 7-13 and produced 230 yards of offense, over 170 yards below their average and over 29 points below their scoring average. That was lowest that any team scored against ASU that season. Every team that played ASU that season scored at least 30 except for the hapless, Corey Hall-led Beavers (24 points) and Utah (10 points), which was ninth in the conference in scoring offense, ninth in the conference in total offense, and finished at ninth place in the Pac 12. Was Smith’s mind elsewhere for the ASU game? Was he mind elsewhere for the 2023 UO game? How about for the UW game the week before?
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Post by kersting13 on Mar 11, 2024 23:16:25 GMT -8
I thought that this is exactly what Clemson did when DJU was a freshman in 2020 and Lawrence was the starter. Clemson won the ACC and made the CFP doing this. The long and the short response to you is, no, absolutely not. That is absolutely not what happened, because Dabo is not a complete idiot, despite his horrendous nickname "Dabo." (Dabo's given name is "William," but "Dabo" has been his nickname, since he was an infant.) What follows is a more complete response: Lawrence started against Wake and built up a 37-3 lead. DJU replaced Lawrence with 1:30 left in the third quarter and led two drives for 35 combined yards and zero points. DJU made way for the third-string quarterback. Lawrence started against The Citadel and built up a 28-0 lead on three drives. Travis Etienne returned the subsequent punt down to the six, and DJU came in to lead the drive for six yards, which consisted of a DJU pass for two yards, a run by another player for three, and a DJU one-yard carry. 35-0. Smart! Save Lawrence for something more important. Lawrence came back in and led one more drive, 42-0. DJU then took over for good with 8:10 left in the first half in drive six and led a 61-yard drive. 49-0. DJU came out for the third-string quarterback before coming back in after halftime and fumbling in his first drive of the second half. The third-string quarterback came in and went three-and-out. DJU came back, picked up one first down, and then could not convert a fourth-and-three. The third-string quarterback took over from there. Lawrence played until 1:11 left in the game against Virginia. DJU ran the last three plays for five yards, and the clock ran out. Lawrence started against Miami and drove for a touchdown on the first drive. Clemson brought DJU in to basically run two gimmick plays with Lawrence still on the field. DJU almost fumbled the snap on the second play but was able to throw away the ball before there was a complete disaster. DJU exited for Lawrence. DJU came back in for one gimmick play in the third quarter that went for three yards and immediately exited. DJU did not see the field again. DJU got hurt in practice between Miami and Georgia Tech and missed the Georgia Tech game. Lawrence started against Syracuse and played until 8:10 left. DJU came in to close it out with a 47-21 lead. DJU drove 36 yards on eight plays, running the clock down under five minutes. Lawrence tested positive for COVID-19 and did not play against Boston College or Notre Dame. DJU started both games. Lawrence came back in and started against Pitt, playing for the first three quarters. DJU came in the fourth quarter up 52-17 and was quarterback for the next three drives (19 plays for 63 yards) before being pulled for the third-string quarterback. DJU did not see the field against Virginia Tech, despite it being a 45-10 game. Lawrence started against Notre Dame in the ACC Championship Game rematch, playing until 5:06 left with Clemson leading 34-10. DJU finished out the game, 34-10. DJU did not see the field against Ohio State, a 49-28 loss. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a second-string quarterback like Smitty used Colletto in years past. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with pulling a quarterback situationally, when there is a short field or to run a gimmick or something. There is something stupid (or nefarious), though, about the way that Smitty used DJU and Chiles in 2023. Well, that certainly sounds different from how OSU used Chiles. How did Michigan use Drew Henson with Tom Brady in 1999? Was he just garbage time, or did he get a meaningful series each game?
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Post by wilkyisdashiznit on Mar 12, 2024 14:09:46 GMT -8
The long and the short response to you is, no, absolutely not. That is absolutely not what happened, because Dabo is not a complete idiot, despite his horrendous nickname "Dabo." (Dabo's given name is "William," but "Dabo" has been his nickname, since he was an infant.) What follows is a more complete response: Lawrence started against Wake and built up a 37-3 lead. DJU replaced Lawrence with 1:30 left in the third quarter and led two drives for 35 combined yards and zero points. DJU made way for the third-string quarterback. Lawrence started against The Citadel and built up a 28-0 lead on three drives. Travis Etienne returned the subsequent punt down to the six, and DJU came in to lead the drive for six yards, which consisted of a DJU pass for two yards, a run by another player for three, and a DJU one-yard carry. 35-0. Smart! Save Lawrence for something more important. Lawrence came back in and led one more drive, 42-0. DJU then took over for good with 8:10 left in the first half in drive six and led a 61-yard drive. 49-0. DJU came out for the third-string quarterback before coming back in after halftime and fumbling in his first drive of the second half. The third-string quarterback came in and went three-and-out. DJU came back, picked up one first down, and then could not convert a fourth-and-three. The third-string quarterback took over from there. Lawrence played until 1:11 left in the game against Virginia. DJU ran the last three plays for five yards, and the clock ran out. Lawrence started against Miami and drove for a touchdown on the first drive. Clemson brought DJU in to basically run two gimmick plays with Lawrence still on the field. DJU almost fumbled the snap on the second play but was able to throw away the ball before there was a complete disaster. DJU exited for Lawrence. DJU came back in for one gimmick play in the third quarter that went for three yards and immediately exited. DJU did not see the field again. DJU got hurt in practice between Miami and Georgia Tech and missed the Georgia Tech game. Lawrence started against Syracuse and played until 8:10 left. DJU came in to close it out with a 47-21 lead. DJU drove 36 yards on eight plays, running the clock down under five minutes. Lawrence tested positive for COVID-19 and did not play against Boston College or Notre Dame. DJU started both games. Lawrence came back in and started against Pitt, playing for the first three quarters. DJU came in the fourth quarter up 52-17 and was quarterback for the next three drives (19 plays for 63 yards) before being pulled for the third-string quarterback. DJU did not see the field against Virginia Tech, despite it being a 45-10 game. Lawrence started against Notre Dame in the ACC Championship Game rematch, playing until 5:06 left with Clemson leading 34-10. DJU finished out the game, 34-10. DJU did not see the field against Ohio State, a 49-28 loss. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using a second-string quarterback like Smitty used Colletto in years past. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with pulling a quarterback situationally, when there is a short field or to run a gimmick or something. There is something stupid (or nefarious), though, about the way that Smitty used DJU and Chiles in 2023. Well, that certainly sounds different from how OSU used Chiles. How did Michigan use Drew Henson with Tom Brady in 1999? Was he just garbage time, or did he get a meaningful series each game? Hilarious. Lloyd Carr. Almost choked away a National Championship with a team that he did not recruit. It should be noted that Tom Brady was recruited by Gary Moeller. Gary Moeller finished the 1995 recruiting class and then quit a couple of months later after being arrested on a drunken disorderly conduct charge at a BBQ restaurant in Southfield. Both Moeller and Carr had been coordinators on Bo Schembechler's final staff. Moeller was the OC and Carr was the DC. Carr was far from an offensive mastermind, like an offensive ignoramus. Anyway, you had Carr with Tom Brady, a senior, who many people have called the greatest quarterback of all time, and Drew Henson, a failed third baseman, who had come back to school to play quarterback at Michigan. Carr liked Henson, because he was a better runner than Brady. Carr liked Henson, because he had a higher potential, plus Carr recruited Henson. Carr liked Henson, because he had absolutely no idea what he was doing on offense. Lloyd Carr started the much better Brady the first seven games and would always insert Henson either late in the first or early in the second quarter. Carr would start the "hot hand" in the second half. Carr was a blithering moron. Kirk Herbstreit questioned Carr's decision to utilize his quarterbacks in the manner that Carr used them, because it seemed to everyone that Brady was a much more complete quarterback at that time. Carr saw potential in Henson, though, a much more mobile quarterback. In the era of Michael Vick, Henson was seen as the future. Against #16 Notre Dame, despite a 6-0 lead, Carr switched out Brady for Henson to start the second quarter. Henson played the entire second quarter, and Notre Dame predictably outscored Michigan 14-3, 14-9 Irish at the half. Brady came back in to start the second half and led Michigan on three scoring drives and a fourth that ended in a missed field goal. Notre Dame led 22-19 with 4:08 left, but Brady drove the team 58 yards on seven plays, eating up two-and-a-half minutes to set up Anthony Thomas' game-winning one-yard touchdown plunge with 1:38 left. Brady finished 17/24 for 197 yards. Henson finished 3/8 for 40 yards. Carr dodged a very stupid bullet that he loaded himself. But lesson learned, right? The second game was against Rice. Brady started and quarterbacked the first two drives. 3-0 Michigan. Henson then took over and ran it up to a 20-0 lead. Brady came in and played the second half, scoring touchdowns on two of his three drives to go up 34-0. Henson came in with 3:03 left and led a drive for a field goal 37-0. Henson quarterbacked the next drive but was stopped for no gain on fourth-and-one. He got another drive that went three-and-out. Henson then was pulled for the third-string quarterback. Brady finished 10/15 for 115 yards. Henson finished 8/14 for 109 yards and a touchdown. Henson, though also ran four times for five yards and a touchdown. Brady finished with more yards in fewer touches, but Henson had a hand in two touchdowns, whereas Brady's two touchdowns were both scored after handoffs to Thomas. Brady got the start against undefeated Syracuse and got the first three drives. Brady led the first drive down to the Orange 31, but, after a false start, the field goal attempt was blocked. A second drive was sabotaged by an inopportune false start, which set up a third-and-eight, which fell incomplete. A third featured a perfect strike to a receiver inside the ten, who accidentally stepped out of bounds before catching the ball. Brady is close to several huge plays, but the line cannot quite hold up long enough or a receiver drops the ball. Henson took over and led Michigan to 13 points to post a 13-7 halftime lead. Henson played the rest of the way. Henson led three scoring drives in the second quarter, although one was 34 yards and a second was 20 yards. 13-7 at the half. Syracuse immediately scored a touchdown, but Michigan blocked the extra point, 13-13. Michigan was gifted a safety on a grounding penalty in the end zone, 15-13. Henson went six-and-out, interception, three-and-out, five-and-out, and three-and-out. Fortunately, the Wolverines defense kept the Orange at bay. Finally, after a great return, Michigan got the ball at the Syracuse 28. Henson completed a nine-yard pass on a 14-yard drive to set up a 31-yard field goal, 18-13 the final. Brady finished 5/10 for 26 yards. Henson finished 16/28 for 151 yards and a touchdown but also an interception to kill a promising drive. Carr dodged an even dumber bullet against an underrated Syracuse. Henson did squat most of the second half. But lesson learned, right? Brady started against #20 Wisconsin. Brady led Michigan to two touchdowns in his first three drives. Brady leads a fourth drive, which ends after two incompletions. Wisconsin drives down for a field goal. Brady makes way for Henson. Henson's first drive ends in a blocked 36-yard field goal, but he does nothing in his other drive. Brady starts the second half and leads a 10-play, 101-yard drive (91 yards plus two false starts) for a 21-9 lead. Wisconsin scores with less than two minutes left but does not recover the onside kick, 21-16 the final. Brady finishes 17/27 for 217 yards, two touchdowns and a meaningless interception. Henson finished 5/8 for 40 yards but also ran for another eight yards on five carries. Brady started against Drew Brees' undefeated #11 Purdue. Brady led the first four drives for two touchdowns and a 14-3 lead. Henson came in and scored a touchdown on his first drive, 21-3. Henson's second drive ended in a fumble and the third drive was just running out the first half. On his last drive, Brees drove down to the eight before getting pushed back, Purdue opting to kick a field goal, 21-6. Brady started the second half. Brees led a touchdown drive on his second drive, but his two-point conversion fell incomplete, 21-12. Brady responds by driving for touchdowns on two of his next three drives, 35-12. Henson then comes in with 8:35 left in the game and drives 47 yards for a 24-yard field goal, 38-12 the final. Brady finishes 15/25 for 250 yards and two touchdowns. Henson finishes 3/3 for 68 yards. Carr has been playing with fire, but it seems like he can pull this one out of the fire. Carr dodged bullets against Notre Dame and Syracuse, playing Henson too much. But..... Brady started against undefeated #11 Michigan State. Brady led Michigan to a field goal on his fourth drive, but Michigan State already had a 7-0 lead. 7-3 after the field goal in the second quarter. Brady seemed to find his sea legs after a bad first three drives. But Henson came in after the field goal. Henson drove down to the Spartan 33 but was flagged for intentional grounding for a loss of 16 yards, which killed the drive. Henson went three-and-out, which set up Michigan State's 58-yard field goal drive, 10-3 Spartans. Henson then hit Marcus Knight for an 81-yard touchdown, 10-10. The Spartans drive down to the 26 to set up a field goal, 13-10. Henson went three-and-out, 13-10 at the half. One lucky play. Otherwise, Carr would not be so stupid as to leave Henson out there, right? No one is that dumb, right? Carr is that dumb. Henson starts the second half over Brady. Three-and-out and three-and-out, 20-10 Michigan State. Interception, 27-10 Spartans on Plaxico Burress' 15-yard touchdown catch. Down 17, Carr finally pulls his head out long enough to belatedly put Brady in. Brady leads a 13-play, 80-yard touchdown drive, 27-17. But Michigan State answers back with a touchdown, 34-17. Brady leads a nine-play, 77-yard drive, 34-24. After the defense finally stiffens up, Brady leads a 12-play, 96-yard drive. 34-31 with 2:44 left. Carr kicks it onside, but Burress comes up with it at the Wolverine 44 with 2:44 left. Michigan's defense stonewalls Michigan State's offense for one yard on two plays, but Burress catches a 15-yarder on third-and-nine to ice it. Brady finishes 30/41 for 285 yards and two touchdowns, all but 47 yards in the game's final 18 yards. Henson finishes 6/12 for 111 yards and the lucky touchdown along with the game-losing interception. Plaxico Burress finishes with 10 receptions for 255 yards and a touchdown, accounting for the majority of Michigan State's offense. Carr has just screwed his much more talented team out of a National Championship, but he still can climb back into the Big Ten Championship race, if he can just generate a brain cell or two. Brady starts against Illinois. Brady's first two drives ended in punts, the second shanked, which led to a short field for the Illini, who drive in for a 7-0 lead. Brady leads a nine-yard, 80-yard touchdown, 7-7. For the first time in the season, Brady started a drive in the second quarter and led a nine-play, 84-yard touchdown drive 14-7. Henson came in the next drive. Anthony Thomas ran three times for 40 yards, a touchdown, and a 20-7 lead. Henson got a second short field and hit an nine-yard pass down to the 18 before getting sacked. Michigan missed the 46-yard field goal. Henson was allowed to attempt one pass on the next drive, which fell incomplete. After that, the Wolverines ran out the first half. Henson got three drives in but no harm, although Brady was denied two second quarter drives to extend the lead. Brady led a 15-play, 88 yard drive to put Michigan up 27-7. Kurt Kittner then led Illinois on four consecutive touchdown drives over the game's final 18 minutes, 35-27 with 59 seconds left. With 59 seconds, Brady drove down to the 16 before he was picked at the two, but the Illini fumbled it back into the end zone. Illinois came up with the fumble for a safety, 35-29 with nine seconds left. Brady's final heave fell incomplete. Carr, realizing that he had been an idiot the whole time, finally benched Henson and kept him there. Brady beat Indiana, Northwestern, Penn State, and Ohio State in order. Had Michigan beat Michigan State or Illinois, the Wolverines would have won the Big Ten and played in the Rose Bowl. Instead, Wisconsin won the Big Ten and beat up on a very overmatched Stanford, who was only there because Simonton fumbled like 43 times at Stanford in 1999. Michigan, instead, played #5 Alabama in the Orange Bowl and won 35-34 in overtime on a hilarious missed extra point.
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Post by kersting13 on Mar 12, 2024 15:30:44 GMT -8
Well, that certainly sounds different from how OSU used Chiles. How did Michigan use Drew Henson with Tom Brady in 1999? Was he just garbage time, or did he get a meaningful series each game? Hilarious. Lloyd Carr. Almost choked away a National Championship with a team that he did not recruit. It should be noted that Tom Brady was recruited by Gary Moeller. Gary Moeller finished the 1995 recruiting class and then quit a couple of months later after being arrested on a drunken disorderly conduct charge at a BBQ restaurant in Southfield. Both Moeller and Carr had been coordinators on Bo Schembechler's final staff. Moeller was the OC and Carr was the DC. Carr was far from an offensive mastermind, like an offensive ignoramus. Anyway, you had Carr with Tom Brady, a senior, who many people have called the greatest quarterback of all time, and Drew Henson, a failed third baseman, who had come back to school to play quarterback at Michigan. Carr liked Henson, because he was a better runner than Brady. Carr liked Henson, because he had a higher potential, plus Carr recruited Henson. Carr liked Henson, because he had absolutely no idea what he was doing on offense. Lloyd Carr started the much better Brady the first seven games and would always insert Henson either late in the first or early in the second quarter. Carr would start the "hot hand" in the second half. Carr was a blithering moron. Kirk Herbstreit questioned Carr's decision to utilize his quarterbacks in the manner that Carr used them, because it seemed to everyone that Brady was a much more complete quarterback at that time. Carr saw potential in Henson, though, a much more mobile quarterback. In the era of Michael Vick, Henson was seen as the future. Against #16 Notre Dame, despite a 6-0 lead, Carr switched out Brady for Henson to start the second quarter. Henson played the entire second quarter, and Notre Dame predictably outscored Michigan 14-3, 14-9 Irish at the half. Brady came back in to start the second half and led Michigan on three scoring drives and a fourth that ended in a missed field goal. Notre Dame led 22-19 with 4:08 left, but Brady drove the team 58 yards on seven plays, eating up two-and-a-half minutes to set up Anthony Thomas' game-winning one-yard touchdown plunge with 1:38 left. Brady finished 17/24 for 197 yards. Henson finished 3/8 for 40 yards. Carr dodged a very stupid bullet that he loaded himself. But lesson learned, right? The second game was against Rice. Brady started and quarterbacked the first two drives. 3-0 Michigan. Henson then took over and ran it up to a 20-0 lead. Brady came in and played the second half, scoring touchdowns on two of his three drives to go up 34-0. Henson came in with 3:03 left and led a drive for a field goal 37-0. Henson quarterbacked the next drive but was stopped for no gain on fourth-and-one. He got another drive that went three-and-out. Henson then was pulled for the third-string quarterback. Brady finished 10/15 for 115 yards. Henson finished 8/14 for 109 yards and a touchdown. Henson, though also ran four times for five yards and a touchdown. Brady finished with more yards in fewer touches, but Henson had a hand in two touchdowns, whereas Brady's two touchdowns were both scored after handoffs to Thomas. Brady got the start against undefeated Syracuse and got the first three drives. Brady led the first drive down to the Orange 31, but, after a false start, the field goal attempt was blocked. A second drive was sabotaged by an inopportune false start, which set up a third-and-eight, which fell incomplete. A third featured a perfect strike to a receiver inside the ten, who accidentally stepped out of bounds before catching the ball. Brady is close to several huge plays, but the line cannot quite hold up long enough or a receiver drops the ball. Henson took over and led Michigan to 13 points to post a 13-7 halftime lead. Henson played the rest of the way. Henson led three scoring drives in the second quarter, although one was 34 yards and a second was 20 yards. 13-7 at the half. Syracuse immediately scored a touchdown, but Michigan blocked the extra point, 13-13. Michigan was gifted a safety on a grounding penalty in the end zone, 15-13. Henson went six-and-out, interception, three-and-out, five-and-out, and three-and-out. Fortunately, the Wolverines defense kept the Orange at bay. Finally, after a great return, Michigan got the ball at the Syracuse 28. Henson completed a nine-yard pass on a 14-yard drive to set up a 31-yard field goal, 18-13 the final. Brady finished 5/10 for 26 yards. Henson finished 16/28 for 151 yards and a touchdown but also an interception to kill a promising drive. Carr dodged an even dumber bullet against an underrated Syracuse. Henson did squat most of the second half. But lesson learned, right? Brady started against #20 Wisconsin. Brady led Michigan to two touchdowns in his first three drives. Brady leads a fourth drive, which ends after two incompletions. Wisconsin drives down for a field goal. Brady makes way for Henson. Henson's first drive ends in a blocked 36-yard field goal, but he does nothing in his other drive. Brady starts the second half and leads a 10-play, 101-yard drive (91 yards plus two false starts) for a 21-9 lead. Wisconsin scores with less than two minutes left but does not recover the onside kick, 21-16 the final. Brady finishes 17/27 for 217 yards, two touchdowns and a meaningless interception. Henson finished 5/8 for 40 yards but also ran for another eight yards on five carries. Brady started against Drew Brees' undefeated #11 Purdue. Brady led the first four drives for two touchdowns and a 14-3 lead. Henson came in and scored a touchdown on his first drive, 21-3. Henson's second drive ended in a fumble and the third drive was just running out the first half. On his last drive, Brees drove down to the eight before getting pushed back, Purdue opting to kick a field goal, 21-6. Brady started the second half. Brees led a touchdown drive on his second drive, but his two-point conversion fell incomplete, 21-12. Brady responds by driving for touchdowns on two of his next three drives, 35-12. Henson then comes in with 8:35 left in the game and drives 47 yards for a 24-yard field goal, 38-12 the final. Brady finishes 15/25 for 250 yards and two touchdowns. Henson finishes 3/3 for 68 yards. Carr has been playing with fire, but it seems like he can pull this one out of the fire. Carr dodged bullets against Notre Dame and Syracuse, playing Henson too much. But..... Brady started against undefeated #11 Michigan State. Brady led Michigan to a field goal on his fourth drive, but Michigan State already had a 7-0 lead. 7-3 after the field goal in the second quarter. Brady seemed to find his sea legs after a bad first three drives. But Henson came in after the field goal. Henson drove down to the Spartan 33 but was flagged for intentional grounding for a loss of 16 yards, which killed the drive. Henson went three-and-out, which set up Michigan State's 58-yard field goal drive, 10-3 Spartans. Henson then hit Marcus Knight for an 81-yard touchdown, 10-10. The Spartans drive down to the 26 to set up a field goal, 13-10. Henson went three-and-out, 13-10 at the half. One lucky play. Otherwise, Carr would not be so stupid as to leave Henson out there, right? No one is that dumb, right? Carr is that dumb. Henson starts the second half over Brady. Three-and-out and three-and-out, 20-10 Michigan State. Interception, 27-10 Spartans on Plaxico Burress' 15-yard touchdown catch. Down 17, Carr finally pulls his head out long enough to belatedly put Brady in. Brady leads a 13-play, 80-yard touchdown drive, 27-17. But Michigan State answers back with a touchdown, 34-17. Brady leads a nine-play, 77-yard drive, 34-24. After the defense finally stiffens up, Brady leads a 12-play, 96-yard drive. 34-31 with 2:44 left. Carr kicks it onside, but Burress comes up with it at the Wolverine 44 with 2:44 left. Michigan's defense stonewalls Michigan State's offense for one yard on two plays, but Burress catches a 15-yarder on third-and-nine to ice it. Brady finishes 30/41 for 285 yards and two touchdowns, all but 47 yards in the game's final 18 yards. Henson finishes 6/12 for 111 yards and the lucky touchdown along with the game-losing interception. Plaxico Burress finishes with 10 receptions for 255 yards and a touchdown, accounting for the majority of Michigan State's offense. Carr has just screwed his much more talented team out of a National Championship, but he still can climb back into the Big Ten Championship race, if he can just generate a brain cell or two. Brady starts against Illinois. Brady's first two drives ended in punts, the second shanked, which led to a short field for the Illini, who drive in for a 7-0 lead. Brady leads a nine-yard, 80-yard touchdown, 7-7. For the first time in the season, Brady started a drive in the second quarter and led a nine-play, 84-yard touchdown drive 14-7. Henson came in the next drive. Anthony Thomas ran three times for 40 yards, a touchdown, and a 20-7 lead. Henson got a second short field and hit an nine-yard pass down to the 18 before getting sacked. Michigan missed the 46-yard field goal. Henson was allowed to attempt one pass on the next drive, which fell incomplete. After that, the Wolverines ran out the first half. Henson got three drives in but no harm, although Brady was denied two second quarter drives to extend the lead. Brady led a 15-play, 88 yard drive to put Michigan up 27-7. Kurt Kittner then led Illinois on four consecutive touchdown drives over the game's final 18 minutes, 35-27 with 59 seconds left. With 59 seconds, Brady drove down to the 16 before he was picked at the two, but the Illini fumbled it back into the end zone. Illinois came up with the fumble for a safety, 35-29 with nine seconds left. Brady's final heave fell incomplete. Carr, realizing that he had been an idiot the whole time, finally benched Henson and kept him there. Brady beat Indiana, Northwestern, Penn State, and Ohio State in order. Had Michigan beat Michigan State or Illinois, the Wolverines would have won the Big Ten and played in the Rose Bowl. Instead, Wisconsin won the Big Ten and beat up on a very overmatched Stanford, who was only there because Simonton fumbled like 43 times at Stanford in 1999. Michigan, instead, played #5 Alabama in the Orange Bowl and won 35-34 in overtime on a hilarious missed extra point. Just to add more fuel to this fire - our own Mike Riley, as USC offensive coordinator, rotated Brad Otton and Kyle Wachholz for basically the entirety of the Trojans 1995 Rose Bowl winning season.
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